How do you rate the rebuild so far?

[caulfield12]

Obviously....this will change by the middle of August with a number of players (5-7?) being traded

 

 

Stock is up/Excited about...

 

Moncada, Robert, Kopech, Hansen, Burger, Dunning, Hickman, Guerrero, Stephens, Delmonico (mostly because he's next up), Engel (for the moment), Micker Adolfo, Zavala, Sheets, Gonzalez (CF), Henzman, Abbott, Skoug

 

 

Concerned about...

 

Rodon (a bit, will find out soon enough), Tim Anderson, Collins, Fulmer, Basabe, Nate Jones, Tilson, James Shields (more from financial standpoint, but a sunk cost already)

 

 

Holding pattern

 

Quintana, Lopez, Giolito, Burdi (though about putting him in the concerned category), Fisher, Call, Hayes, Booker

 

 

Pleasant surprises

 

Avi, SANCHEZ, Davidson, Leury Garcia, Kanhle, Holmberg, Willy Garcia

Edited June 26, 2017 by caulfield12

[greg775]

Was this thread written to hike greg's blood pressure? I gave it a 2.

[caulfield12]

Here are some facts:

 

Rodon hasn't pitched yet. Q has had his worst season statistically (still Top 25ish fWAR), Anderson has regressed. Cabrera statistically (defense and power) has been of the worst AL players until recently. There would be no Eaton.

 

A competing White Sox team isn't giving opportunities again to Avi, Leury Garcia, Yolmer and Davidson. Kahnle, maybe?

 

The core of the team (Abreu, Frazier, Cabrera, Anderson) entering the year has only had an above average performance from Abreu (and his defense has been shakier), with the others disappointing.

 

 

 

Now if you assume we brought back Austin ackson and Avila (both counterintuitive but actually would have worked), we still have a rotation of Sale, Q, Holland, Shields and Miguel Gonzalez. Mix in Pelfrey, Sale cancels the Covey starts. Other than Sale and Q, Pelfrey and Holland are probably 3/4 or 4/3. Miguel Gonzalez has been worse. Shields started off well but is getting bombed out of the park again. Jennings much worse in the pen.

 

Still not seeing a team that's realistically going to compete with the Indians, Twins and Royals...

Edited June 26, 2017 by caulfield12

[hogan873]

I gave it a 6, and that's based on that fact that it's incomplete. I like the moves so far, and I like the draft picks, from what I know of them. In about five weeks, this team could look A LOT different, and there could be many more exciting prospects in the system.

 

If Hahn makes some more smart trades, I could see my rating rising up to an 8 or 9.

[GreatScott82]

Other than Tim Anderson (maybe) and Carlos Rodon, I don't anticipate any of the players at the MLB level to be on this team after 2018. This rebuild is going to take time and right now the name of the game is to sell high on as many of these assets as possible. Sure there are thoughts of Abreu playing the 'mentor' role for the likes of Robert and Moncada, or possibly keeping this reborn Avi around for the future as well. But if these guys are tearing the heads off the ball and a team is desperate for another bat at the deadline or during the winter meetings, I do think Hahn will make the deal. We need to stop worrying about the main roster and focus more on farm depth. Not all of these prospects will stick, but the more of them we have, the better chance this rebuild will provide us fans something to truly be excited about. The 2018 and 2019 MLB drafts are extremely important. This years trade deadline will be HUGE as DRob and Quintana are top targets. I do believe both will be traded and we will be pleased with the returns. Frazier may bring the white sox a low level guy and Melky will likely be a non-waiver deal candidates in August. To me, the most intriguing trade candidates are Kahnle and Swarzak. If Hahn can flip these two relievers into prospects from the Top 100 list... wow!

 

This December will be very very interesting. Providing Q and DRob were the two big names traded at the deadline, I'm very curious to see if Hahn sells high on Avi and what the market values him. Is this all star season a fluke, or is this the real Avi? Seeing reports that the Cardinals are interested in him is encouraging. Any AL team seeking a DH/ OF will have to offer something good. If his poor defense is dragging down his value, id say hold onto him one more year and put him in LF, a much easier position to cover. Abreu will likely draw a lot of value this winter as teams begin to reset. If the Sox are certain about drafting a guy like Seth Beer or believe Collins or another recent draft pick can stick at 1b in the near future, I say sell high this December.

 

This rebuild is a process, I'm very happy with it thusfar-- so much needs to get done-- selling high and drafting well is the name of the game. Things will be very interesting after this trade deadline....the farm system is starting to shape up nicely-- I haven't said that since the year 2000!

[Kyyle23]

Umm where is the Incomplete option, since a rebuild is not finished 3 months into the first season of a rebuild

[knightni]

From what they've done, I give it a 7.

 

There are quite a few positives in the acquisitions that they have made this year so far.

 

If Quintana could turn it around, they may get another infusion of youth for the future.

 

 

Hahn hasn't given up the farm like Pace, or continued to be a muddled mess, like Forman.

 

 

He's actually been pretty smart with the things that he's done.

[caulfield12]

Other than Tim Anderson (maybe) and Carlos Rodon, I don't anticipate any of the players at the MLB level to be on this team after 2018. This rebuild is going to take time and right now the name of the game is to sell high on as many of these assets as possible. Sure there are thoughts of Abreu playing the 'mentor' role for the likes of Robert and Moncada, or possibly keeping this reborn Avi around for the future as well. But if these guys are tearing the heads off the ball and a team is desperate for another bat at the deadline or during the winter meetings, I do think Hahn will make the deal. We need to stop worrying about the main roster and focus more on farm depth. Not all of these prospects will stick, but the more of them we have, the better chance this rebuild will provide us fans something to truly be excited about. The 2018 and 2019 MLB drafts are extremely important. This years trade deadline will be HUGE as DRob and Quintana are top targets. I do believe both will be traded and we will be pleased with the returns. Frazier may bring the white sox a low level guy and Melky will likely be a non-waiver deal candidates in August. To me, the most intriguing trade candidates are Kahnle and Swarzak. If Hahn can flip these two relievers into prospects from the Top 100 list... wow!

 

This December will be very very interesting. Providing Q and DRob were the two big names traded at the deadline, I'm very curious to see if Hahn sells high on Avi and what the market values him. Is this all star season a fluke, or is this the real Avi? Seeing reports that the Cardinals are interested in him is encouraging. Any AL team seeking a DH/ OF will have to offer something good. If his poor defense is dragging down his value, id say hold onto him one more year and put him in LF, a much easier position to cover. Abreu will likely draw a lot of value this winter as teams begin to reset. If the Sox are certain about drafting a guy like Seth Beer or believe Collins or another recent draft pick can stick at 1b in the near future, I say sell high this December.

 

This rebuild is a process, I'm very happy with it thusfar-- so much needs to get done-- selling high and drafting well is the name of the game. Things will be very interesting after this trade deadline....the farm system is starting to shape up nicely-- I haven't said that since the year 2000!

 

 

The problem is that a large aspect of ANY positive value defensively (that mitigates his overall bad play) in RF is that arm and the assist totals.

 

That said, Viciedo had plenty of throwing oppotunities in 2012. I don't know the exact number of throws that are cut down from RF moving to LF, maybe 25% or so? As much as 1/3 fewer throwing attempts?

Edited June 26, 2017 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

Average score so far is equal to 6.6.

 

6.8 without Greg's 2, haha.

 

 

I guess another element to this is feeling the Sale trade was one player light (a significant third piece instead of two more lesser ones) and the initial stumbles of Lucas Giolito.

 

Of course now, Fulmer and Collins are taking the most criticism, along with Timmy Anderson.

 

(Also pretty obvious the Red Sox weren't ever including Devers or Benintendi. Moncada lights it up in his recall and maybe that trade goes down as Devers and Kopech instead?)

Edited June 26, 2017 by caulfield12

[Bob Sacamano]

Year 1 of rebuild and they've already added a lot of talent. I give it a 10 so far. Of course, we'll see how it pans out in a few years.

 

If you compare it to the Cubs rebuild, going into year 1 of the season, they only had who, Baez and Rizzo (traded for in off-season before year 1; similar to Moncada) in the system at that point? Everyone else came the followings seasons.

Edited June 26, 2017 by soxfan2014

[ChiSox59]

I gave it a 6.

 

Last winter's trades: 8.5

 

Robert Signing: 9.5

 

2017 Draft: 7

 

2017 MLB performance of trade assets: 1.5

 

Accumulates into a solid 6.

 

Frazier, Jones, Putnam, Petricka, Jennings, Gonzalez all being bad or hurt has really put a damper on what could have been really good to solid trade pieces. And that sucks. Quintana having 3 dumpster fire starts has not been helpful, and I doubt he is traded this summer.

 

All we really have to trade is a fairly paid Robertson who may return 1 decent piece, and then we have two 2 diamond in the rough types in Avi and Kahnle - and who knows how much we'll actually be able to get for those 2. Its a damn shame, and why I was not on the "tank" bandwagon until after the deadline. Avi, Kahnle, and to a lesser extent Abreu, have really been the only bright spots of 2017.

Edited June 26, 2017 by ChiSox59

[Bob Sacamano]

I gave it a 6.

 

Last summer's trades: 8.5

 

Robert Signing: 9.5

 

2017 Draft: 7

 

2017 MLB performance of trade assets: 1.5

 

Accumulates into a solid 6.

 

Frazier, Jones, Putnam, Petricka, Jennings, Gonzalez all being bad or hurt has really put a damper on what could have been really good to solid trade pieces. And that sucks.

 

All we really have to trade is a fairly paid Robertson who may return 1 decent piece, and then we have two 2 diamond in the rough types in Avi and Kahnle - and who knows how much we'll actually be able to get for those 2. Its a damn shame, and why I wan't on the "tank" bandwagon until after the deadline. Avi, Kahnle, and to a lesser extent Abreu, have really been the only bright spots of 2017.

 

I said all off-season the guy was gonna turn into a pumpkin.

[Hatchetman]

I guess I lump in the 2016 draft into the rebuild. That Collins pick is looking very bad to me. The Giolito/Lopez return for Eaton not looking good so far. Moncada/Kopech look about what you could reasonably expect. Robert looks good early. Not trading Q looks like a bad decision.

 

I would say the plan has been OK, results not overwhelming. But you never know until about 20 years later how things turn out.

[Soha]

I gave it a 7. The returns on Sale and Eaton, plus the signing of Luis Robert are big pluses. That nobody else has been traded yet, specifically Quintana - is a tad disappointing.

[Hatchetman]

Another thing to watch is how much $$ they eat in the Frazier/Robertson/Melky trades.

[caulfield12]

I guess I lump in the 2016 draft into the rebuild. That Collins pick is looking very bad to me. The Giolito/Lopez return for Eaton not looking good so far. Moncada/Kopech look about what you could reasonably expect. Robert looks good early. Not trading Q looks like a bad decision.

 

I would say the plan has been OK, results not overwhelming. But you never know until about 20 years later how things turn out.

 

Dunning is pitching really well now for Winston-Salem...could be the best of the three.

[ChiSox59]

Another thing to watch is how much $$ they eat in the Frazier/Robertson/Melky trades.

 

I think they'll need to eat the majority of Frazier and Melky's contracts to even garner any interest. I'd be shocked if we got anything remotely interesting for either of them.

[Soha]

Average score so far is equal to 6.6.

 

6.8 without Greg's 2, haha.

 

 

I guess another element to this is feeling the Sale trade was one player light (a significant third piece instead of two more lesser ones) and the initial stumbles of Lucas Giolito.

 

Of course now, Fulmer and Collins are taking the most criticism, along with Timmy Anderson.

 

(Also pretty obvious the Red Sox weren't ever including Devers or Benintendi. Moncada lights it up in his recall and maybe that trade goes down as Devers and Kopech instead?)

 

I suspect that if they wouldn't have included Moncada, then Sale would have been moved for a package headlined by Robles. Which then probably would have screwed the return for Eaton.

[caulfield12]

Another thing to watch is how much $$ they eat in the Frazier/Robertson/Melky trades.

 

And Holland, to a lesser extent...officially stuck with Shields, now.

 

At any rate, Leury Garcia could be really attractive to a lot of teams due to his versatility. Yolmer, as well.

[SonofaRoache]

This rebuild is a 4 until I see a trade involving players that didn't anger the Front Office. So far we've only traded away Eaton and Sale. We probably lost a lot of value not trading Q earlier so hopefully he can have another dominate month leading to the trade deadline to get us a top 50 prospect.

Edited June 26, 2017 by SonofaRoache

[steveno89]

I guess I lump in the 2016 draft into the rebuild. That Collins pick is looking very bad to me. The Giolito/Lopez return for Eaton not looking good so far. Moncada/Kopech look about what you could reasonably expect. Robert looks good early. Not trading Q looks like a bad decision.

 

I would say the plan has been OK, results not overwhelming. But you never know until about 20 years later how things turn out.

 

Don't forget about Dane Dunning. He has had a strong season so far.

 

Giolito/Lopez have been mediocre so far, but it's too early to write them off for sure

[southsider2k5]

This rebuild is a 4 until I see a trade involving players that didn't anger the Front Office. So far we've only traded away Eaton and Sale. We probably lost a lot of value not trading Q earlier so hopefully he can have another dominate month leading to the trade deadline to get us a top 50 prospect.

 

People still believe this?

[Buehrlesque]

I think the natural "halfway point" to rate the rebuild will be after the forthcoming Robertson and Quintana trades. One homerun there could swing the rankings hugely. But in the meantime, I would prematurely give the efforts so far a 7.

 

I strongly disliked the Collins pick at the time, and it hasn't looked better in retrospect with Rutherford and Lewis both appearing to be better prospects. I did like Hansen, Call and Fisher. I liked the Duke trade. I liked the Sale trade. The Eaton trade was good value-wise in a vacuum, and it's hard to dislike it. Unfortunately, there was no way to know at the time that the lack of hitting prospects would not be addressed elsewhere. Again, the Robertson and/or Quintana trades have the potential to make a huge difference there. The Robert signing is a win. Hahn's waiver moves (W. Garcia, Hanson, Liriano, Covey) have been generally worthwhile. The minor adds (Pelfrey, Swarzak, Rayburn, Bourjos, Holmberg, Soto) have no real downside and can end up being worthwhile as well. I hope he keeps pursuing opportunities like this — an interchangeable roster plus good waiver position is a nice advantage to pay around with. Re-signing Avi was not a given at the time, and it turned out to be a great move. I don't love the Burger pick, but there wasn't much better they could do there.

 

Overall, I don't think this team is in as good of a position as I originally would have thought they would be by now, but there are bullets left to significantly change the outlook.

[yesterday333]

I gave it a 7. Only because we still have moves that need to happen. But it has been great so far. We have accumulated a ton of talent in the farm. People over react to everything. People freaking out over Collins and Fulmer are stupid, they still have a lot of time to grow. Also the perceived loss of value for Q... Just look at the old Buerle thread. That's exactly what the Q freak out feels like.

[caulfield12]

Let's not forget about Alec Hanson, the most non-Dominican name of all-time. He has looked good, too. For those saying it's moving too slow...we have Q, Robertson still to go, along with Frazier...maybe Holland, Swarzak and Pelfrey.

 

Equally important are Avi, Kahnle, Davidson, Leury, SANCHEZ, W. Garcia, Hanson...they've made this season fun and even entertaining.

 

Just think how much time we spent speculating on Saladino, he's almost reached Tilson-esque irrelevancy.

Edited June 26, 2017 by caulfield12