How do you rate the rebuild so far?

[Jose Abreu]

People giving it low grades due to lack of trades would be giving it even lower grades if Hahn had accepted the trades that were offered to him after Sale/Eaton.

[yesterday333]

I think the natural "halfway point" to rate the rebuild will be after the forthcoming Robertson and Quintana trades. One homerun there could swing the rankings hugely. But in the meantime, I would prematurely give the efforts so far a 7.

 

I strongly disliked the Collins pick at the time, and it hasn't looked better in retrospect with Rutherford and Lewis both appearing to be better prospects. I did like Hansen, Call and Fisher. I liked the Duke trade. I liked the Sale trade. The Eaton trade was good value-wise in a vacuum, and it's hard to dislike it. Unfortunately, there was no way to know at the time that the lack of hitting prospects would not be addressed elsewhere. Again, the Robertson and/or Quintana trades have the potential to make a huge difference there. The Robert signing is a win. Hahn's waiver moves (W. Garcia, Hanson, Liriano, Covey) have been generally worthwhile. The minor adds (Pelfrey, Swarzak, Rayburn, Bourjos, Holmberg, Soto) have no real downside and can end up being worthwhile as well. I hope he keeps pursuing opportunities like this — an interchangeable roster plus good waiver position is a nice advantage to pay around with. Re-signing Avi was not a given at the time, and it turned out to be a great move. I don't love the Burger pick, but there wasn't much better they could do there.

 

Overall, I don't think this team is in as good of a position as I originally would have thought they would be by now, but there are bullets left to significantly change the outlook.

I really don't see how Rutherford is a better prospect... he is probably putting up worse numbers in A ball than Collins in A+. Only one HR isn't very good. Neither is the .714 ops compared to Collins .781. And Collins has improved greatly in his defense.

Edited June 26, 2017 by yesterday333

[bighurt574]

Gave it a 6. Still lingering concerns on the position player side preventing a higher rating.

 

We need to continue building through trades and more importantly the draft. Hit on some of our top picks.

[jenksycat]

Taken with a grain of salt of course...but going from a 20+ ranked farm system to top 3 by most accounts via 2 trades and 1 signing is a pretty decent off season/draft in my opinion. Still going to take some luck and JR not being a cheapass to get these prospects to hit & FA signings in a couple years to fill the hopefully couple holes, but I'll take that over the half-assed bulls*** they've tried the last decade.

 

 

[oldsox]

Gave it a 6. Still lingering concerns on the position player side preventing a higher rating.

 

We need to continue building through trades and more importantly the draft. Hit on some of our top picks.

Hasn't happened yet. TA is the closest.

[Buehrlesque]

I really don't see how Rutherford is a better prospect... he is probably putting up worse numbers in A ball than Collins in A+. Only one HR isn't very good. Neither is the .714 ops compared to Collins .781. And Collins has improved greatly in his defense.

Rutherford hasn't been dominant this year, but he's hitting .269/.336/.378 in A ball as a 20 year old, a year after destroying Rookie Ball with a .351/.415/.570 line. I think he's a better prospect than Collins, lack of power (up to now — it could still develop) notwithstanding. Most national writers rank Rutherford significantly ahead of Collins as well.

[bighurt574]

Hasn't happened yet. TA is the closest.

 

Yep, need some guys like Fulmer, Collins, Burger, and whoever we draft with high picks in the next year or two to pan out.

 

We can pull off some great trades, but if you're not drafting well, it's awfully tough.

[witesoxfan]

I give this rebuild a Dan Quisenberry out of Ivan Calderon, with the potential for it to be a George Bell or even a LaMarr Hoyt.

[steveno89]

Yep, need some guys like Fulmer, Collins, Burger, and whoever we draft with high picks in the next year or two to pan out.

 

We can pull off some great trades, but if you're not drafting well, it's awfully tough.

 

Rebuilding is a tough, long process. It's hard to judge, but we have come a long way since December 1st.

 

Not every prospect will pan out, but we have done a good job taking what was a bottom 5 mlb farm and hugely upgrading it with talent.

[southsider2k5]

I give this rebuild a Dan Quisenberry out of Ivan Calderon, with the potential for it to be a George Bell or even a LaMarr Hoyt.

 

This is a Tuffy Rhodes of a post.

[knightni]

This is a Tuffy Rhodes of a post.

Caulfield's posts make me feel like Dock Ellis at times.

[chitownsportsfan]

Let's take a trip down memory lane and look at the roster Hahn inherited in 2013, with the Sox coming off a 85-77 campaign:

 

2012 40 man, sorted by bWAR

 

That insane thing about that club is that they got almost 25 bWAR from guys on the wrong side of 30. Including a16 bWAR from the aging combination of Alexie, AJ, Rios and Peavy.

 

Few were clamoring for a "tear down" that offseason but it would become obvious in 2013 that the Sox were on a downward trajectory. How quickly things changed. One of the worst rosters in Sox history position players wise, with a 32 and 31 year old leading the Sox position players in bWAR (Alexei and Rios) with 2.8 and 1.2 respectively.

 

Obviously hindsight is 20/20 but in retrospect Hahn had inherited an old, bad, fluke of a 2012 team and also as a newly minted GM probably encountered quite a bit of inertia (led by KW) towards "staying the course" heading into 2013.

 

Well the rest is history, culminating in the exciting but ultimately fruitless 2014 offseason, and the lost 2015, 2016 and now 2017 seasons.

 

The Sox were able to cash in somewhat on Rios and Peavy, but what they really needed was fluke 5 WAR seasons, not prospects. Although the trades bolstered the system somewhat it would obviously be years before Avi and Leury contributed anything beyond replacement level.

 

Taking the long view back and comparing it with the current roster, midway through 2017 it's obvious how much has changed, with most of the Sox' position player WAR coming from guys under 28, and hardly anybody on the roster over 31, let alone relying on multiple mid 30s players.

 

The minor league system was 28-30th almost universally heading into 2013 and now it's almost universally top 3-5.

 

Payroll concerns are non existent and overall the org looks about 25th or so in MLB talent, top 5 in MiLB talent, and probably positioned in the upper 1/3 overall. It's a much better place to be then they were 5 years ago, that's for sure.

 

Overall I gave the rebuild an 8. The Sox have done a nice job, especially considering where they came from.

[hi8is]

Ask me mid June after the 2018 draft.

[Two-Gun Pete]

Agreed that it's a bit early to judge the progress of the rebuild heretofore.

 

I'm happy to have been wrong about the Front Office's willingness to sign Robert.

 

I'm sad to have seen the impossibly premature extension given to Tim Anderson, whose performance @ the plate looks like that was a bad move. One wonders if Leury might be the better SS going forward.

 

I hate the idea of promoting Collins and his (EDIT) .209 batting average to AA; if he can't make contact, he's not really a prospect, is he?

 

Many of the pitching prospects look like they'll be relievers (Giolito & Fulmer), while Burdi & Kopech need to cut their walk rates down. Otoh, Dunning has been a pleasant surprise.

 

However, all of this said, we're very early in this process, and all of the trends I mentioned here can easily reverse themselves by year's end, for better or worse. This front office still has to disperse more veterans to get back some pieces, and this draft class has only started to report, so ask us in September how it's going then...

Edited June 27, 2017 by Two-Gun Pete

[tray]

Agreed that it's a bit early to judge the progress of the rebuild heretofore.

 

I'm happy to have been wrong about the Front Office's willingness to sign Robert.

 

I'm sad to have seen the impossibly premature extension given to Tim Anderson, whose performance @ the plate looks like that was a bad move. One wonders if Leury might be the better SS going forward.

 

I hate the idea of promoting Collins and his (EDIT) .209 batting average to AA; if he can't make contact, he's not really a prospect, is he?

 

Many of the pitching prospects look like they'll be relievers (Giolito & Fulmer), while Burdi & Kopech need to cut their walk rates down. Otoh, Dunning has been a pleasant surprise.

 

However, all of this said, we're very early in this process, and all of the trends I mentioned here can easily reverse themselves by year's end, for better or worse. This front office still has to disperse more veterans to get back some pieces, and this draft class has only started to report, so ask us in September how it's going then...

 

I don't agree with you about Tim Anderson, but I do on most everything else you said.

My problem with the rebuild is that I do not see enough start position players in the Minors that can fuel a resurgence when they get promoted.

Moncada and Robert....that's about it.

 

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I gave it a 9, because even though there are still moves to be made, no moves look bad. Not thrilled with our 2017 draft class, but everything else has been aces.

[Dominikk85]

Good rebuild so far. They got a good return in both big trades, albeit some of the players are risky and complemented that with some supposedly low risk college players in the draft (collins, Rodon, burger).

 

They still lack pieces though, especially up the middle (shortstop, Centerfielders, 2b if moncada has to move to of, catcher if collins has to move). Also another high level starting pitching prospect since giolito and kopech both come with some relief risk related to their command development (both could make it as starters but I would not be surprised if one became a reliever).

 

Overall the rebuild started well but there are still holes in the system that have to be filled.

[Chicago White Sox]

It's basically impossible to rank a rebuild this early into the process, but right now I'd say everything is on track as it stands today.

 

Pitching wise we're in a great spot IMO. I know the Charlotte guys have dissapointed, but I still have faith in Lopez & Giolito becoming quality starters. The Birmingham staff has been excellent, with Kopech flashing legit TOR potential and Adams, Guerrero, & Stephens all looking like guys who could be in the major league mix as soon as next year. Add in Rodon and we'll have plenty of options to try out in 2018. And by 2019 the next wave of guys in Dunning, Hansen, & Flores should hit. Even if a couple guys completely flame out and a few more need to move to the bullpen, we've got enough prospect depth to get through it.

 

The position player side is the challenge, but from an overall organization perspective we're looking better. The major league roster actually has multiple young contrubitors in Avi, Leury, Sanchez, & Davidson who may or may not work out, but are least giving us some optimism at the moment. Anderson has been a train-wreck this year plain and simple, but I still think he'll up a good, not great major league SS. At AAA we have one of the most exciting positional prospects in all of baseball in Moncada. He will be a superstar, even if it takes a couple seasons to get there. Delmonico is another interesting bat in AAA that will be perfect to try out in a rebuild. In terms of near major league ready bats (AA and above), there isn't much there other than guys like Wilson Garcia & Engel. That's the weak spot of the organization and hopefully can be addressed at the trade deadline.

 

Having said all that, we're getting much deeper at the lower levels of the system. Our A ball teams next year could feasibly have OFs built around Robert, Adolfo, Basabe, Call, Fisher, Booker, Gonzalez, & Dedelow. Those first two guys have legit superstar potential and Adolfo may be the most improved prospect in the organization (check out his June splits if you don't believe me). We should also have some high-upside infielders like Burger, Sheets, Reyes, Curbelo, & Nunez plus some other interesting guys in Cruz & a few of the 2016 draft picks. Even our catching depth at the low levels has improved significantly (despite the likely promotion of Collins) with Zavala hitting well, the addition of Skoug, and hopefully the full season arrival of Carlos Perez.

 

The focus for our front office remains asset collection. This trade deadline is huge for us. Hahn has to execute at least three major trades IMO. Robertson will no doubt be one of those. Hopefully the demand for Quintana will be there despite the slow start. And I'd really like to see at least one of the big 2017 surprises moved (Kahnle, Avi, Leury) if value can be extracted. Getting one blue chipper and a few more top 100 prospects would be huge. On top of that, Hahn must dump Frazier and some of the other rentals for some low level lottery tickets (I'd target recent LatAm signings). A successful trade deadline will not only improve our prospect depth, but should also assist with our tanking efforts. The #3 pick in the 2018 draft should be attainable and getting it would be huge for our rebuilding efforts. That's probably our best chance to acquire another future star to pair with Moncada & Robert, whatever headliner we get for Q, and hopefully a major free agent down the road.

 

So so far so good, even if everything hasn't worked perfectly as planned.

Edited June 27, 2017 by Chicago White Sox

[Middle Buffalo]

Too early to know, but I gave it a 7 based on potential we've brought back in trades. I hope we're not holding out for too much for some of our other pieces.

 

Much of my final grade would hinge on the performance of the Boston prospects we got. If they bust or are average, I'll hate that we gave up Sale - a best pitcher in franchise history contender.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Gave it a 5 . Hahn has been notoriously bad making trades at the deadline and we'll see how it goes this year but I think what many are expecting isn't going to happen.

[Bananarchy]

Let's take a trip down memory lane and look at the roster Hahn inherited in 2013, with the Sox coming off a 85-77 campaign:

 

2012 40 man, sorted by bWAR

 

That insane thing about that club is that they got almost 25 bWAR from guys on the wrong side of 30. Including a16 bWAR from the aging combination of Alexie, AJ, Rios and Peavy.

 

Few were clamoring for a "tear down" that offseason but it would become obvious in 2013 that the Sox were on a downward trajectory. How quickly things changed. One of the worst rosters in Sox history position players wise, with a 32 and 31 year old leading the Sox position players in bWAR (Alexei and Rios) with 2.8 and 1.2 respectively.

 

Obviously hindsight is 20/20 but in retrospect Hahn had inherited an old, bad, fluke of a 2012 team and also as a newly minted GM probably encountered quite a bit of inertia (led by KW) towards "staying the course" heading into 2013.

 

Well the rest is history, culminating in the exciting but ultimately fruitless 2014 offseason, and the lost 2015, 2016 and now 2017 seasons.

 

The Sox were able to cash in somewhat on Rios and Peavy, but what they really needed was fluke 5 WAR seasons, not prospects. Although the trades bolstered the system somewhat it would obviously be years before Avi and Leury contributed anything beyond replacement level.

 

Taking the long view back and comparing it with the current roster, midway through 2017 it's obvious how much has changed, with most of the Sox' position player WAR coming from guys under 28, and hardly anybody on the roster over 31, let alone relying on multiple mid 30s players.

 

The minor league system was 28-30th almost universally heading into 2013 and now it's almost universally top 3-5.

 

Payroll concerns are non existent and overall the org looks about 25th or so in MLB talent, top 5 in MiLB talent, and probably positioned in the upper 1/3 overall. It's a much better place to be then they were 5 years ago, that's for sure.

 

Overall I gave the rebuild an 8. The Sox have done a nice job, especially considering where they came from.

I voted 5, now I'm thinking 8 after reading this.

[Bob Sacamano]

It's impossible to grade a rebuild as of right now. So with the talent they've brought in during year 1 of the rebuild, I give it a 10. Bringing in Moncada, Kopech, Robert, Lopez, Giolito, Dunning, Basabe, the 2017 draft picks are great additions to go along with Rodon (who really knows how long for him), Hansen, Collins, and Anderson.

Edited June 27, 2017 by soxfan2014

[southsider2k5]

Agreed that it's a bit early to judge the progress of the rebuild heretofore.

 

I'm happy to have been wrong about the Front Office's willingness to sign Robert.

 

I'm sad to have seen the impossibly premature extension given to Tim Anderson, whose performance @ the plate looks like that was a bad move. One wonders if Leury might be the better SS going forward.

I hate the idea of promoting Collins and his (EDIT) .209 batting average to AA; if he can't make contact, he's not really a prospect, is he?

 

Many of the pitching prospects look like they'll be relievers (Giolito & Fulmer), while Burdi & Kopech need to cut their walk rates down. Otoh, Dunning has been a pleasant surprise.

 

However, all of this said, we're very early in this process, and all of the trends I mentioned here can easily reverse themselves by year's end, for better or worse. This front office still has to disperse more veterans to get back some pieces, and this draft class has only started to report, so ask us in September how it's going then...

 

Where did you see this?

[witesoxfan]

I'm sad to have seen the impossibly premature extension given to Tim Anderson, whose performance @ the plate looks like that was a bad move. One wonders if Leury might be the better SS going forward.

 

Tim Anderson is making $4 million per year. If he averages 0.5 WAR per year, he'll be worth the money.

 

There was nothing wrong with that extension whatsoever. You will end up eating your words on that one.

[harfman77]

I gave it a 10. Not sure what else they should have done thus far that they haven't done.

 

The next big test is the trade deadline and whether or not they can peddle some of the short term veterans (Holland, Pelfrey, Holmberg, Gonzalez) into any anything of value. Also will be interesting to see what value they can extract from Robertson. Frazier has probably killed most of their hopes from being able to get some value from dealing him, Cabrera should bring back a couple low level pieces. The wildcard this summer would be if someone offers current value for Avi.

 

I think they hold Q this summer unless they are blown away.

 

In the offseason they look at trading Q and Rodon (if he performs for the rest of the season).