How do you rate the rebuild so far?

[Jerksticks]

I'm really surprised people don't understand my point about this. You have to consider this team's record in grading the rebuild. All seasons are equal. You have to take the bad with the good. Let's say half the prospects make it and the Sox never creep about .500 in this rebuild. In that case you have to balance that with the miserable seasons to see if it was worth it.

Look ... all seasons count the same. This one is horrific to watch. Next season will be the same. The rebuild will remain a failure. If and when the team gets good with the prospects, the grade starts to improve. If the team makes the playoffs it improves more. If it makes the WS the rebuild becomes a 9. What is so controversial about what I am saying here?

 

They said to rate the rebuild as it stands now. Well, as of now I'm sickened by this baseball team trotting Holland, Shields and Pelfrey out there. So the rebuild is a 2. Can it become an 8, 9 even a 10 at some point? Sure.

 

What an interesting way to look at it. Moncada is pretty much must-see TV though right? Lopez coming up will be cool as s*** too. To me it's a different kind of fun with the Sox right now. The Kids Can Play was when I first got into the Sox. I don't mind it, just try to shrug off Chris Sale at another level and I'm pretty happy.

[Jerksticks]

I'm really surprised people don't understand my point about this. You have to consider this team's record in grading the rebuild. All seasons are equal. You have to take the bad with the good. Let's say half the prospects make it and the Sox never creep about .500 in this rebuild. In that case you have to balance that with the miserable seasons to see if it was worth it.

Look ... all seasons count the same. This one is horrific to watch. Next season will be the same. The rebuild will remain a failure. If and when the team gets good with the prospects, the grade starts to improve. If the team makes the playoffs it improves more. If it makes the WS the rebuild becomes a 9. What is so controversial about what I am saying here?

 

They said to rate the rebuild as it stands now. Well, as of now I'm sickened by this baseball team trotting Holland, Shields and Pelfrey out there. So the rebuild is a 2. Can it become an 8, 9 even a 10 at some point? Sure.

 

What an interesting way to look at it. Moncada is pretty much must-see TV though right? Lopez coming up will be cool as s*** too. To me it's a different kind of fun with the Sox right now. The Kids Can Play was when I first got into the Sox. I don't mind it, just try to shrug off Chris Sale at another level and I'm pretty happy.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

What an interesting way to look at it. Moncada is pretty much must-see TV though right? Lopez coming up will be cool as s*** too. To me it's a different kind of fun with the Sox right now. The Kids Can Play was when I first got into the Sox. I don't mind it, just try to shrug off Chris Sale at another level and I'm pretty happy.

Actually I agreed with Greg to an extent. Trading our guys for the best possible return is one thing ,like the first step in a rebuild. and for that first step,we all seem pretty pleased. But the coming steps are all just as important if not more so. The talent acquired has to pan out and to high degree for the plan to progress to the next stage which is supplementing it with any missing pieces. Then comes sustaining success for as long as you can.

[jenksycat]

I'm really surprised people don't understand my point about this. You have to consider this team's record in grading the rebuild. All seasons are equal. You have to take the bad with the good. Let's say half the prospects make it and the Sox never creep about .500 in this rebuild. In that case you have to balance that with the miserable seasons to see if it was worth it.

Look ... all seasons count the same. This one is horrific to watch. Next season will be the same. The rebuild will remain a failure. If and when the team gets good with the prospects, the grade starts to improve. If the team makes the playoffs it improves more. If it makes the WS the rebuild becomes a 9. What is so controversial about what I am saying here?

 

They said to rate the rebuild as it stands now. Well, as of now I'm sickened by this baseball team trotting Holland, Shields and Pelfrey out there. So the rebuild is a 2. Can it become an 8, 9 even a 10 at some point? Sure.

 

All this really says is you don't understand the concept of a rebuild. You're not competing for a title 6 months into a rebuild. You're not going to be above .500 6 months into a rebuild. The first true piece of this rebuild just played his 2nd game for the MLB club and most of the others won't get a shot till mid 2018 at the earliest.

 

The only way to completely judge this rebuild is after the majority of the 15+ guys acquired since the team picked + draft picks from a couple bad years a direction pan out, which won't be until at least 2019. All we're able to judge right now is the deals that were made, which look great on paper which is all you can really ask for at this stage.

 

I should have grabbed the post but someone else said something similar along the lines of "I know we're rebuilding...but how are we going to win games & compete right now?" which is just a baffling lack of understanding for what is going on for the next couple years.

[witesoxfan]

I'm really surprised people don't understand my point about this. You have to consider this team's record in grading the rebuild. All seasons are equal. You have to take the bad with the good. Let's say half the prospects make it and the Sox never creep about .500 in this rebuild. In that case you have to balance that with the miserable seasons to see if it was worth it.

Look ... all seasons count the same. This one is horrific to watch. Next season will be the same. The rebuild will remain a failure. If and when the team gets good with the prospects, the grade starts to improve. If the team makes the playoffs it improves more. If it makes the WS the rebuild becomes a 9. What is so controversial about what I am saying here?

 

They said to rate the rebuild as it stands now. Well, as of now I'm sickened by this baseball team trotting Holland, Shields and Pelfrey out there. So the rebuild is a 2. Can it become an 8, 9 even a 10 at some point? Sure.

 

If "half" the prospects make it, the Sox are going to be the best team in the majors in 2020 and 2021.

[Quin]

If "half" the prospects make it, the Sox are going to be the best team in the majors in 2020 and 2021.

 

If half the prospects make it, dear f***ing Lord.

 

There will still be people complaining about Fulmer tho

[Y2Jimmy0]

I'm really surprised people don't understand my point about this. You have to consider this team's record in grading the rebuild. All seasons are equal. You have to take the bad with the good. Let's say half the prospects make it and the Sox never creep about .500 in this rebuild. In that case you have to balance that with the miserable seasons to see if it was worth it.

Look ... all seasons count the same. This one is horrific to watch. Next season will be the same. The rebuild will remain a failure. If and when the team gets good with the prospects, the grade starts to improve. If the team makes the playoffs it improves more. If it makes the WS the rebuild becomes a 9. What is so controversial about what I am saying here?

 

They said to rate the rebuild as it stands now. Well, as of now I'm sickened by this baseball team trotting Holland, Shields and Pelfrey out there. So the rebuild is a 2. Can it become an 8, 9 even a 10 at some point? Sure.

 

 

Your point doesn't make any sense. The whole point of this is to be really bad at the major league level while accumulating a s***load of high upside prospects. There is zero reason to be winning games right now because it's counterproductive to what they are trying to do. If you're gonna win 75 games then you might as well win 65 games and pick really high in the draft to accumulate more high upside controllable talent. You're extremely ignorant about the draft though. You're entitled to post whatever you want but you can't honestly wonder why people don't take you seriously. You have these inane opinions and continue to post them and ask questions. Others, like myself try to reason with you and explain what is going on but you just ignore it. What they were doing before is a failure. At least there's a point to all of this.

[greg775]

Moncada is pretty much must-see TV though right? Lopez coming up will be cool as s*** too. To me it's a different kind of fun with the Sox right now.

Yeah I'll agree with that. I wouldn't call it 'fun' though to see those hacks serve up three gopher balls in a row to the Royals tonight after seeing Pelfrey slow the game down to a crawl seemingly afraid to deliver a pitch in his final inning of work. Albeit he did put up zeros so kudos for that, but ...

 

Actually I agreed with Greg to an extent. Trading our guys for the best possible return is one thing ,like the first step in a rebuild. and for that first step,we all seem pretty pleased. But the coming steps are all just as important if not more so. The talent acquired has to pan out and to high degree for the plan to progress to the next stage which is supplementing it with any missing pieces. Then comes sustaining success for as long as you can.

Yes sir. I can buy that post.

 

All this really says is you don't understand the concept of a rebuild.

The only way to completely judge this rebuild is after the majority of the 15+ guys acquired since the team picked + draft picks from a couple bad years a direction pan out, which won't be until at least 2019. All we're able to judge right now is the deals that were made, which look great on paper which is all you can really ask for at this stage.

I do understand the concept of a rebuild The topic is: "How do you rate the rebuild so far?" I agree with what you said, everything you said. I'm just saying to rate the rebuild so far, you can't give it more than a 2 3 or 4. Why? It's a process and right now we are in the s*** part of the process. The only thing we have next to the prospects' names are expert rankings, which mean NOTHING. I told everybody to no avail that I applaud the prospects we got and the rankings next to their names. Fantastic. Probably couldn't do better in that regard.

But to rate the rebuild so far??? Well, you have to take this as a process. At this stage of the process the rebuild is nothing but horses*** baseball at this time and prospects either doing their thing in the minors or getting ready to rake. Relax, folks. My grade of 2 is the CURRENT GRADE, how I rate the rebuild so far. I told everybody that as we start winning, if we start winning, the grade goes up and up. Could it someday be an 8 9 or 10, I said sure it could be. Am I 'happy' with the prospects we got? Sure, on paper of course. But again, all seasons matter. Why is that so hard to understand? And at this stage of the rebuild this season is horrific. Until the Sox start winning, my rebuild grade is very low.

I DO understand the rebuild.

 

Your point doesn't make any sense. The whole point of this is to be really bad at the major league level while accumulating a s***load of high upside prospects. There is zero reason to be winning games right now because it's counterproductive to what they are trying to do. If you're gonna win 75 games then you might as well win 65 games and pick really high in the draft to accumulate more high upside controllable talent. You're extremely ignorant about the draft though.

Ignorant about the draft? Hmmm. Pedro Alvarez second; where was Trout drafted? Rodon? Fulmer? Look I have the right to not give a s*** if we pick third or 13th. I happen to think you get a good player at either slot. I understand why you guys think losses are part of the rebuild. I happen to think that is a horrific way of rebuilding. You are talking a few draft slots here or there in a draft where there are no guarantees. None.

Why can't you humor me on this and say you understand my position. You DISAGREE with it, but my position is completely logical.

And I will gladly increase my rating of the rebuild if and when we start winning. If we win a division and WS or two or three because of this rebuild, fantastic. I will be first to watch the parade on TV and buy the WS T-shirts and hats again.

But as of now ... I want proof. My grade for the rebuild is tied to upcoming success and right now it's abysmal failure (in terms of this year's team).

You guys can say getting the No. 1 or 2 draft pick means everything to a rebuild and that losing is the way to go. To me? No. 3 pick vs 10 MEANS NOTHING. That doesn't make me the dumbest fan alive. You all think I am a dunce.

[greg775]

If "half" the prospects make it, the Sox are going to be the best team in the majors in 2020 and 2021.

Good. Bring it on. I want wins.

[Chicago White Sox]

Glad to see the "new" Greg lasted a whole week.

 

Once a troll, always a troll...

[greg775]

Glad to see the "new" Greg lasted a whole week.

 

Once a troll, always a troll...

For the life of me I can't understand why some people can't accept a difference of opinion. I've praised the s*** out of the prospects we got and the direction of the team. I will never acquiesce and say I think the draft is so imporant there's a big difference between the 2nd and 10th pick. Nobody even tries to understand my points. Just because I don't agree with you or the masses shouldn't make me evil, but it does.

 

As u know I'm not a big rebuild guy, yet I can name our optimal hopefully WS lineup

LF - Eloy. CF - Robert. RF - Rutherford. DH - Avi.

C - Collins

3B - Burger/Davidson. SS - TA. 2B - Moncada. 1B - Abreu. Backup OF the sparkplug guy we got from the Yankees, Tito Polo. I believe there's the guy we got from the Red Sox as well, Basabe.

 

P-Rodon, Fulmer, Cease, Kopech, the plethora of guys we got from Nats. I'm excited. What more do you want from me? I can't agree with every single point people make. I need some results, too. Just because I chose to answer this question the way I did makes me evil. I don't understand why praising the prospects yet needing to see the improvement makes me evil. Nobody seems to agree this losing bulls*** has to be considered as a bad part of the process. Will this current bad part of the process be forgotten at some point? Sure, if everything works out. Why do I have to do handstands right now? Why does questioning it a bit make me a bad fan or troll?

There are some fans who can't take losing at all (me). But it's almost like my hatred of losing is not considered logical or at all acceptable. Why is that? Not all people are the same. Some people DESPISE losing. That's me. Losing to the Royals makes me explode. Will that angst be worth it if we rattle off three WS titles because of this? Of course. I wish you would try to consider my points rather than assume because they are polar opposite of yours I must be a troll.

 

I'm trying to be a better poster but I despise the Royals so much. Please mods close this thread. It is the only one that reverts me back to insanity!

Edited July 23, 2017 by greg775

[caulfield12]

Losing to the Royals helps the White Sox in two ways.

The End.

 

There's no benefit to beating them, really.

We've lost 21 of our last 28. Over a full season, that's a 40.5 and 121.5 record

Edited July 23, 2017 by caulfield12

[rowand's rowdies]

Greg has been much better laying out his thoughts. His thought process on the draft position is a little puzzling but he does have past situations (Fulmer at 8, Sale at 13, and on and on) that show his thought process. Like I have said, top 5 is critical and top 3 can be franchise altering.

 

I don't know about a rebuild grade now, I like the trades to varying degrees, but what I can tell you is that our best team above Low A is 17 games under .500. I'm all for rebuilding and losing games at the MLB level but the lack of wins in the org is not acceptable to me. That isn't the way to build a winning culture.

 

If they don't improve dramatically (minor teams) between now and the end of the year, some heads should roll. I know Charlotte will be losing some talent but from what I've heard Grudz should be gone anyway.

 

Anyone else bothered by the last place play across most levels?

[Y2Jimmy0]

Yeah I'll agree with that. I wouldn't call it 'fun' though to see those hacks serve up three gopher balls in a row to the Royals tonight after seeing Pelfrey slow the game down to a crawl seemingly afraid to deliver a pitch in his final inning of work. Albeit he did put up zeros so kudos for that, but ...

 

 

Yes sir. I can buy that post.

 

 

I do understand the concept of a rebuild The topic is: "How do you rate the rebuild so far?" I agree with what you said, everything you said. I'm just saying to rate the rebuild so far, you can't give it more than a 2 3 or 4. Why? It's a process and right now we are in the s*** part of the process. The only thing we have next to the prospects' names are expert rankings, which mean NOTHING. I told everybody to no avail that I applaud the prospects we got and the rankings next to their names. Fantastic. Probably couldn't do better in that regard.

But to rate the rebuild so far??? Well, you have to take this as a process. At this stage of the process the rebuild is nothing but horses*** baseball at this time and prospects either doing their thing in the minors or getting ready to rake. Relax, folks. My grade of 2 is the CURRENT GRADE, how I rate the rebuild so far. I told everybody that as we start winning, if we start winning, the grade goes up and up. Could it someday be an 8 9 or 10, I said sure it could be. Am I 'happy' with the prospects we got? Sure, on paper of course. But again, all seasons matter. Why is that so hard to understand? And at this stage of the rebuild this season is horrific. Until the Sox start winning, my rebuild grade is very low.

I DO understand the rebuild.

 

 

Ignorant about the draft? Hmmm. Pedro Alvarez second; where was Trout drafted? Rodon? Fulmer? Look I have the right to not give a s*** if we pick third or 13th. I happen to think you get a good player at either slot. I understand why you guys think losses are part of the rebuild. I happen to think that is a horrific way of rebuilding. You are talking a few draft slots here or there in a draft where there are no guarantees. None.

Why can't you humor me on this and say you understand my position. You DISAGREE with it, but my position is completely logical.

And I will gladly increase my rating of the rebuild if and when we start winning. If we win a division and WS or two or three because of this rebuild, fantastic. I will be first to watch the parade on TV and buy the WS T-shirts and hats again.

But as of now ... I want proof. My grade for the rebuild is tied to upcoming success and right now it's abysmal failure (in terms of this year's team).

You guys can say getting the No. 1 or 2 draft pick means everything to a rebuild and that losing is the way to go. To me? No. 3 pick vs 10 MEANS NOTHING. That doesn't make me the dumbest fan alive. You all think I am a dunce.

 

I wasn't going to use the word dunce...

Edited July 23, 2017 by Y2JImmy0

[oldsox]

If "half" the prospects make it, the Sox are going to be the best team in the majors in 2020 and 2021.

Wite, you are just making stuff up with that statement. They should de-mod you, then ban you.

[Kyyle23]

Wite, you are just making stuff up with that statement. They should de-mod you, then ban you.

 

we will get right on that

[Quin]

we will get right on that

 

I prefer we send him to some faith healer in Colorado.

[oldsox]

I prefer we send him to some faith healer in Colorado.

I might know her.

[Dominikk85]

Yeah I'll agree with that. I wouldn't call it 'fun' though to see those hacks serve up three gopher balls in a row to the Royals tonight after seeing Pelfrey slow the game down to a crawl seemingly afraid to deliver a pitch in his final inning of work. Albeit he did put up zeros so kudos for that, but ...

 

 

Yes sir. I can buy that post.

 

 

I do understand the concept of a rebuild The topic is: "How do you rate the rebuild so far?" I agree with what you said, everything you said. I'm just saying to rate the rebuild so far, you can't give it more than a 2 3 or 4. Why? It's a process and right now we are in the s*** part of the process. The only thing we have next to the prospects' names are expert rankings, which mean NOTHING. I told everybody to no avail that I applaud the prospects we got and the rankings next to their names. Fantastic. Probably couldn't do better in that regard.

But to rate the rebuild so far??? Well, you have to take this as a process. At this stage of the process the rebuild is nothing but horses*** baseball at this time and prospects either doing their thing in the minors or getting ready to rake. Relax, folks. My grade of 2 is the CURRENT GRADE, how I rate the rebuild so far. I told everybody that as we start winning, if we start winning, the grade goes up and up. Could it someday be an 8 9 or 10, I said sure it could be. Am I 'happy' with the prospects we got? Sure, on paper of course. But again, all seasons matter. Why is that so hard to understand? And at this stage of the rebuild this season is horrific. Until the Sox start winning, my rebuild grade is very low.

I DO understand the rebuild.

 

 

Ignorant about the draft? Hmmm. Pedro Alvarez second; where was Trout drafted? Rodon? Fulmer? Look I have the right to not give a s*** if we pick third or 13th. I happen to think you get a good player at either slot. I understand why you guys think losses are part of the rebuild. I happen to think that is a horrific way of rebuilding. You are talking a few draft slots here or there in a draft where there are no guarantees. None.

Why can't you humor me on this and say you understand my position. You DISAGREE with it, but my position is completely logical.

And I will gladly increase my rating of the rebuild if and when we start winning. If we win a division and WS or two or three because of this rebuild, fantastic. I will be first to watch the parade on TV and buy the WS T-shirts and hats again.

But as of now ... I want proof. My grade for the rebuild is tied to upcoming success and right now it's abysmal failure (in terms of this year's team).

You guys can say getting the No. 1 or 2 draft pick means everything to a rebuild and that losing is the way to go. To me? No. 3 pick vs 10 MEANS NOTHING. That doesn't make me the dumbest fan alive. You all think I am a dunce.

 

well you also have to consider what hahn could do. he wasn't allowed to rebuild before 2016 so he can't really be farther along. all he could do was selling pieces for talent and he just did that.

 

you are of course right that this is just a first step. they needed minor league talent but other areas like coaching (especially hitters), acquiration of international talent (started doing that recently), major league roster construction and other things need improvement too. just collecting minor league talent is no guarantee but coming of several straight losing seasons despite some top guys there was really no alternative.

 

hahn did what he could so far, so he shouldnt get a bad grade there. however of course you are correct that the next steps need to follow. if you don't want to give him a high grade I would prefer giving him an undecided.

[witesoxfan]

Wite, you are just making stuff up with that statement. They should de-mod you, then ban you.

 

And then we will knight you as grand moderator. This place would never be run better.

[knightni]

And then we will knight you as grand moderator. This place would never be run better.

No.

 

I'm the only knighted moderator around here.

[southsider2k5]

No.

 

I'm the only knighted moderator around here.

 

[donates shrubbery]

[NCsoxfan]

I'm much more nervous about the next stages of the rebuild than the trading of the big chips. For instance, how does Hahn handle future FA signings, contract extensions, drafting, more under the radar trades, etc. The exciting part from the perspective of the fans is over, crossing my fingers that Hahn and crew can make good decisions the next few years.

[southsider2k5]

I'm much more nervous about the next stages of the rebuild than the trading of the big chips. For instance, how does Hahn handle future FA signings, contract extensions, drafting, more under the radar trades, etc. The exciting part from the perspective of the fans is over, crossing my fingers that Hahn and crew can make good decisions the next few years.

 

This stage is 100% about player development. If that doesn't happen, this franchise is screwed for a long, long time.

[iamshack]

I'm much more nervous about the next stages of the rebuild than the trading of the big chips. For instance, how does Hahn handle future FA signings, contract extensions, drafting, more under the radar trades, etc. The exciting part from the perspective of the fans is over, crossing my fingers that Hahn and crew can make good decisions the next few years.

I dunno about that...the trading was fun and all, but now we actually get to watch these kids develop. I, for one, have been following the affiliates games, as well as excited more than ever to watch guys like Yoan, Lopez and Giolito begin their White Sox careers. Then will come some of those things you mentioned, which, IMO, will be fun as well.

 

The great thing about our rebuild is that we didn't have to just all-out suck AND have no real assets to watch develop like the Astros did for awhile.

 

We're pretty lucky.