How do you rate the rebuild so far?

[steveno89]

I dunno about that...the trading was fun and all, but now we actually get to watch these kids develop. I, for one, have been following the affiliates games, as well as excited more than ever to watch guys like Yoan, Lopez and Giolito begin their White Sox careers. Then will come some of those things you mentioned, which, IMO, will be fun as well.

 

The great thing about our rebuild is that we didn't have to just all-out suck AND have no real assets to watch develop like the Astros did for awhile.

 

We're pretty lucky.

 

Strongly advise all Sox fans to download MILB First Pitch app as you can quickly and easily follow our systems minor league games. I've been using it to follow the box scores of our prospects each game.

 

Now it really is about player development as we look to guide our young talent through the system. We have to remember that growing pains and struggles are going to happen. Major trades are likely over, unless they get a great offer for Abreu/Avi, so it will be upto Hahn and Co. to do well in minor trades/rule V draft/2018 and 2019 drafts, free agency etc.

 

 

[steveno89]

I dunno about that...the trading was fun and all, but now we actually get to watch these kids develop. I, for one, have been following the affiliates games, as well as excited more than ever to watch guys like Yoan, Lopez and Giolito begin their White Sox careers. Then will come some of those things you mentioned, which, IMO, will be fun as well.

 

The great thing about our rebuild is that we didn't have to just all-out suck AND have no real assets to watch develop like the Astros did for awhile.

 

We're pretty lucky.

 

We are certainly lucky to have the top assets to deal for our rebuild. We would be looking at a rough 5 years without the Sale/Eaton/Quintana/DRob/Kahnle trades

[fathom]

I'm much more nervous about the next stages of the rebuild than the trading of the big chips. For instance, how does Hahn handle future FA signings, contract extensions, drafting, more under the radar trades, etc. The exciting part from the perspective of the fans is over, crossing my fingers that Hahn and crew can make good decisions the next few years.

 

Yep now it's onto the part they've really struggled with. If the org continues to struggle helping guys make adjustments, then this will never work. Lots of guys with star potential but could easily flop (true for almost all prospects).

[JPR]

I give it a 10

Out of 10

And there's not a single

Trade where I think Hahn didn't make out well. Rutherford is top 5 in the best farm system in baseball and we got him for 2 relievers and a guy who can't hit his weight. That's according to MLB.com. Slam dunk! Boom shakalaka NBA Jam style!!!! We totally owned the nationals and potentially the bosox and yankmees as well. Quintana is awesome but Eloy is a monster and is gonna bat clean up like the big hurt did. He's totally like an Albert Belle. When it's all said and done we are gonna have 3-5 All Stars on this roster in 2020. We have 12 prospects, maybe more, that look like gold. Let us say every 2 out of 3 fail! We still got 4 All Stars. Game on! Mighty ducks style. Can't wait to see who we draft. Obviously, it's going to be Beer.

Edited July 27, 2017 by JPR

[Two-Gun Pete]

I'm much more nervous about the next stages of the rebuild than the trading of the big chips. For instance, how does Hahn handle future FA signings, contract extensions, drafting, more under the radar trades, etc. The exciting part from the perspective of the fans is over, crossing my fingers that Hahn and crew can make good decisions the next few years.

I agree that I'm nervous about the next stage of the rebuild. I think it was (comparatively) fun to amass the youngsters, & for the front office to absorb the kudos of the fans and media.

 

But when the team will be ~20 games below .500 on Fathers Day next season, will this front office and ownership have the requisite PATIENCE to stay the course? Will they keep the "end in mind," as the losses pile up? Or will they stupidly rush the youngsters through the system instead of patiently allowing each prospect develop at his own pace?

 

So far, this team has been anything BUT patient:

 

1. Rodon was rushed, & he STILL can't consistently locate his FB.

2. Tim Anderson played all of 55 games in AAA, & was rushed to the contract extension.

3. Moncada was brought up, despite his craptacular splits hitting as a righty.

4. Hell, when they just "HAD TO" have James f***ing Shields, had they waited a few days, he probably would have been DFA'ed, instead they stupidly gave away value for him.

 

So, on balance, I question this team's ability to be patient.

 

This stage is 100% about player development. If that doesn't happen, this franchise is screwed for a long, long time.

And that's the other side of the coin:

 

Does this org have the know-how to develop hitters? Do they have the right people in the right jobs, or is Chris Getz only in his position because he played here?

 

Can they properly interpret their prospect' results, or do they take the Charlotte bandbox results at face value, for example?

 

Can we as fans have faith in this org in developing hitters in their own farm system, when they have utterly failed to do so over the past ~15-20 years?

 

 

We will see. But again, I think we'll be entering the "hard part" of the rebuild, which is to WAIT PATIENTLY for the kids to make it here. We won't have Sale/Eaton/Q or any other big chip to trade away. We won't have a high prospect in a trade return to drool over. And we won't have a new international FA to distract us from the crappiness of Ricky's bunting operation. To me, this will be the hard part for the fans, this impatient front office, this impatient ownership, and the stupid cub-centric media.

[Dick Allen]

It's all going to be about development. If they can develop these guys, the team will be really good. If they can't, it will be what it is now, unwatchable.

[caulfield12]

Draft Day will definitely be the highlight of 2018.

 

Here's hoping Rodon, Anderson, Fulmer (Erik Johnson II), Collins and Burdi can all get turned around in positive directions as well in the next 12-24 months.

[caulfield12]

It's all going to be about development. If they can develop these guys, the team will be really good. If they can't, it will be what it is now, unwatchable.

 

Seeing the younger pitchers will be frustrating...and exciting, but nobody can tolerate much more of Shields, Holland and Pelfrey.

 

Luckily, we've got 6 strong candidates in the upper minors. Two of them will make it, hopefully three if you go down to A ball and Dunning/Hansen/Cease.

 

We simply can't throw around $440 million in free agency, especially on pitching. $225-275 is probably more accurate.

[Bananarchy]

I agree that I'm nervous about the next stage of the rebuild. I think it was (comparatively) fun to amass the youngsters, & for the front office to absorb the kudos of the fans and media.

 

But when the team will be ~20 games below .500 on Fathers Day next season, will this front office and ownership have the requisite PATIENCE to stay the course? Will they keep the "end in mind," as the losses pile up? Or will they stupidly rush the youngsters through the system instead of patiently allowing each prospect develop at his own pace?

 

So far, this team has been anything BUT patient:

 

1. Rodon was rushed, & he STILL can't consistently locate his FB. He's basically still in spring training post injury

2. Tim Anderson played all of 55 games in AAA, & was rushed to the contract extension. No brainer. If he's a 2 WAR player, this is a steal of a contract

3. Moncada was brought up, despite his craptacular splits hitting as a righty. I don't particularly care about a rookie's splits from one side. He deserved the call up.

4. Hell, when they just "HAD TO" have James f***ing Shields, had they waited a few days, he probably would have been DFA'ed, instead they stupidly gave away value for him.Not a rebuild gripe

 

So, on balance, I question this team's ability to be patient.

 

 

And that's the other side of the coin:

 

Does this org have the know-how to develop hitters? Do they have the right people in the right jobs, or is Chris Getz only in his position because he played here? Probably

 

Can they properly interpret their prospect' results, or do they take the Charlotte bandbox results at face value, for example? The White Sox play in a "bandbox", so yeah they can interpret Charlotte performance

 

Can we as fans have faith in this org in developing hitters in their own farm system, when they have utterly failed to do so over the past ~15-20 years? Different guy running the farm system, different GM. This isn't GarPax. There is a clear change in philosophy where Hahn has taken the reins.

 

 

We will see. But again, I think we'll be entering the "hard part" of the rebuild, which is to WAIT PATIENTLY for the kids to make it here. We won't have Sale/Eaton/Q or any other big chip to trade away. We won't have a high prospect in a trade return to drool over. And we won't have a new international FA to distract us from the crappiness of Ricky's bunting operation. To me, this will be the hard part for the fans, this impatient front office, this impatient ownership, and the stupid cub-centric media. You're really overplaying this patience thing. We don't need that many more prospects to drool over. We have a number of them. As far as the Cub-centric media: they understand the rebuild process because the Cubs have done it.

You seem cool enough, but most of what you have said here is kind of meh. There's a difference between being a realist and being chicken little. The sky is not failing, the Sox have a ton of near MLB prospects followed by a ton of top prospects right beneath. This thing is going to go faster than you think.

[Two-Gun Pete]

You seem cool enough, but most of what you have said here is kind of meh. There's a difference between being a realist and being chicken little. The sky is not failing, the Sox have a ton of near MLB prospects followed by a ton of top prospects right beneath. This thing is going to go faster than you think.

Look, I'm not debating the "why" of TA'a underperformance, nor Rodons performance.

 

I'm speaking to something called, "organizational behavior." In other words, while there may be "reasons" for TA & Rodon to be here, but were they rushed, yes or no? Was it smart to bring up TA after 55 AAA games, yes or no? Was it smart to pay ANYTHING for Shields, when they could have exercised patience, & waited for him to be DFAed from SD, yes or no? Is it smart to have Rodon here after 17IP in his rehab stint, or could he start developing his leadership skills around his future rotation mates down on the farm?

 

As it pertains to a forward-looking view, yes, it's true that "past performance is no guarantee of future results." But the history of this organization's behaviors are what I'm calling into question. NOT the individual performances of any one player.

 

The other angle is for the fans. Will Greg and others sit tight as Ricky calls another stupid bunt, & the team sinks to 20 below .500? Will cub apologists in the media be as patient for our SOX as they were for "their" cubs? (Before you answer, remember how the media just "HAD TO" put out a story about crime around The Cell during the 2005 WS, & cubs fellators like Levine just "HAD TO" ask Sale about Arrieta in the clubhouse after a SOX game.)

Edited July 27, 2017 by Two-Gun Pete

[KnightsOnMintSt]

Crazy to think that will probably get a top 3 pick in the 2018 draft, and most likely a top 5 pick in the 2019 draft, to add to this loaded farm system.

[Two-Gun Pete]

Crazy to think that will probably get a top 3 pick in the 2018 draft, and most likely a top 5 pick in the 2019 draft, to add to this loaded farm system.

I'll agree that this is exciting to think about.

 

I only hope they don't stupidly draft a HS player, then rush him through the system as if he were a DOMINANT 3-year all conference player in the SEC. More advanced college bats, please.

[caulfield12]

Look, I'm not debating the "why" of TA'a underperformance, nor Rodons performance.

 

I'm speaking to something called, "organizational behavior." In other words, while there may be "reasons" for TA & Rodon to be here, but were they rushed, yes or no? Was it smart to bring up TA after 55 AAA games, yes or no? Was it smart to pay ANYTHING for Shields, when they could have exercised patience, & waited for him to be DFAed from SD, yes or no? Is it smart to have Rodon here after 17IP in his rehab stint, or could he start developing his leadership skills around his future rotation mates down on the farm?

 

As it pertains to a forward-looking view, yes, it's true that "past performance is no guarantee of future results." But the history of this organization's behaviors are what I'm calling into question. NOT the individual performances of any one player.

 

The other angle is for the fans. Will Greg and others sit tight as Ricky calls another stupid bunt, & the team sinks to 20 below .500? Will cub apologists in the media be as patient for our SOX as they were for "their" cubs? (Before you answer, remember how the media just "HAD TO" put out a story about crime around The Cell during the 2005 WS, & cubs fellators like Levine just "HAD TO" ask Sale about Arrieta in the clubhouse after a SOX game.)

 

 

You forgot "rushing" Burdi to AAA (potentially a late-season callup to finish 2016 pennant race)...

 

And drafting another elite "MLB-ready" collegiate pitcher in Carson Fulmer instead of other candidates (particularly, position players, with Happ among many available).

[Two-Gun Pete]

You forgot "rushing" Burdi to AAA (potentially a late-season callup to finish 2016 pennant race)...

 

And drafting another elite "MLB-ready" collegiate pitcher in Carson Fulmer instead of other candidates (particularly, position players, with Happ among many available).

Without question on both Burdi & Fulmer.

 

What's worse, is that this org compounded their error on Fulmer by:

1. stupidly rushing him up during a lost season last year (thus burning an option), and further,

2. by not properly assigning him to a level where he might succeed (AA this season), and

3. by not admitting that he is simply a reliever, & working towards that end sooner, rather than later.

 

The Fulmer case illustrates this organization's lack of patience, & also, this organization's tendency to not make a course correction in the face of overwhelming evidence. (See Courtney Hawkins, his complete and total failure as an OF, and why is he not already making the conversion to pitching as another example.)

 

[NCsoxfan]

Crazy to think that will probably get a top 3 pick in the 2018 draft, and most likely a top 5 pick in the 2019 draft, to add to this loaded farm system.

 

This is a little pedantic of me I'll admit, but you don't really "add drafts to your system". Each draft merely replaces players in the minors who have either now out of baseball/in another system, or in the big leagues. Guys who were rookies are now in year 1, guys in year 2 now 3, etc. So it's only really additive if the net benefit is greater than the same point in the previous year.

[steveno89]

I'll agree that this is exciting to think about.

 

I only hope they don't stupidly draft a HS player, then rush him through the system as if he were a DOMINANT 3-year all conference player in the SEC. More advanced college bats, please.

 

I get what you are saying, but I absolutely would draft a high school player in the first round if he were the best available prospect. Passing over superior talent because you feel he won't impact the major league team for 3-5 years is not a good idea.

 

 

[Two-Gun Pete]

I get what you are saying, but I absolutely would draft a high school player in the first round if he were the best available prospect. Passing over superior talent because you feel he won't impact the major league team for 3-5 years is not a good idea.

For me, if it were ANY other MLB org, Id be OK with drafting a HS player.

 

For THIS org? When was the last time they successfully drafted a HS player, brought him thru the system, properly developed him, & the result was the player became a consistent producer over a number of years?

 

I honestly can't remember. Was it Joe Crede? That's going on 21 f***ing years since they did that. He was drafted in 1996. To my memory, that was the last successful HS draftee (that was productive for multiple years) for this org.

 

Again, when I say "no HS players," I'm speaking more to the failures of organizational behaviour with this team. I don't think they have the patience, nor the right people to develop a HS player, PERIOD. Therefore, better to go with an advanced college bat because they're simply incapable of developing a HS draftee.

[BlackSox13]

Granted he's slumping in his sophomore season but I think the Sox have done well with TA so far. TA was a good talent coming out of the draft but not in the same tier as Robert, Collins, Rutherford, Jimenez etc. The Sox have gotten TA to the big leagues so I like their chances in developing what they have on the farm.

[Two-Gun Pete]

Granted he's slumping in his sophomore season but I think the Sox have done well with TA so far. TA was a good talent coming out of the draft but not in the same tier as Robert, Collins, Rutherford, Jimenez etc. The Sox have gotten TA to the big leagues so I like their chances in developing what they have on the farm.

I admire your optimism, sir.

 

With respect to TA, his pre-professional profile suggested that he should have been brought along slower, IMO. I also believe that while TA is here, I don't think his developmental track has maximized what he could be. In other words, the SOX picked unripe fruit in this case.

 

In looking @ TA, it isn't "just" his results, it's his process:

 

1. He has no plan to his ABs, swinging @ everything not thrown directly @ his skull.

2. He lacks certain skills, to include hunting for a base hit (which is different than Ricky's stupid sac bunts),

3. He doesn't have good instincts on the basepaths, either using his speed to steal, taking the secondary lead, or taking the additional base,

4. Defensively, he looks to be less than the sum of his natural gifts.

 

As a result, he's looked hesitant (See the bad sac bunt & not running it out, & strugglesto throw accurately to Abreu), & he's lashing out on Twitter.

 

IMO, none of these things are really on TA, so much as they are on this organization. IMO, @ best, they've set him up to be less successful than he could have been, and @ worst, they've set him up to fail.

 

 

If they stupidly drafted a HS player, they'd probably do the same stupid thing they did to TA. Here's hoping it works out.

[caulfield12]

Anderson seems like he's almost always in between these days.

 

And he's pulling off almost every outside pitch...he doesn't have a chance to drive the ball to RF.

 

How many groundballs has he hit to 3B and SS in recent weeks?

[LittleHurtCG]

I would rate the rebuild as a massive failure. 

[WBWSF]

The rebuild has had mixed results. The team got into the playoffs two years in a row for the first time in their history. Unfortunately they haven't won a playoff series during this rebuild. Hopefully, 2024 will put the team back into the playoffs.

[T R U]

17 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

The rebuild has had mixed results. The team got into the playoffs two years in a row for the first time in their history. Unfortunately they haven't won a playoff series during this rebuild. Hopefully, 2024 will put the team back into the playoffs.

Sir, this team is 21 games under .500 in the middle of their "contending window". Mixed results my ass buddy.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

1 hour ago, WBWSF said:

The rebuild has had mixed results. The team got into the playoffs two years in a row for the first time in their history. Unfortunately they haven't won a playoff series during this rebuild. Hopefully, 2024 will put the team back into the playoffs.

making the playoffs two years in a row should NOT be impressive for any organization.

[South Side Hit Men]

5 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

making the playoffs two years in a row should NOT be impressive for any organization.

It would have been through 30 years ago, when you had to win a 6-7 team division or 8-10 team league to be a playoff team.

Now you can be an under .500 Central Division winner and be in the 12 team postseason farce.