How do you rate the rebuild so far?

[Rowand44]

I am not a prospects guy. I like proven players, though not many hitters are truly elite and not many pitchers are truly elite any more.

That said, a lot of you are prospects people so I ask you, since so many gave the rebuild a 9 or 10 in this thread: Taking all the talent the Sox have acquired into consideration and assuming we keep Abreu around as well as Rodon and Anderson ... can you assure me 1 to 3 World Series appearances only taking the guys we acquired and our homegrown minor leaguers into consideration as well as the fact the Sox are sure to get some more good prospects for David Robertson and maybe Melky?

 

Can you assure me 1-3 World Series appearances and/or WS titles? I gave the rebuild 2 so far cause I need proof and I am not a prospects guy.

No. Can't assure that for any team in the history of baseball.

1) I read in todays Sun Times that the team is not expecting much in return for Frazier and Robertson after they're traded. You have to see how this plays out but I don't doubt that we will receive next to nothing for them. This only confirms to me that this isn't a rebuild. Its simply a salary dump by JR. I figure by Opening Day 2019 the team will have a payroll of somewhere around $30 million. Considering that the team grosses over $260 million every year, JR is looking at making more serious money. This team will be so bad by then I wouldn't be surprised to see the team have a Turn Back The Clock day with the players dressed in the uniforms of the St. Louis Browns.Hopefully sometime around 2019 this team will have new ownership in place to turn around this train wreck of a franchise.

2) I've always been a fan of Hawk Harrelson as a announcer. I wish this was his last season. It's time for him to go. One of his constant remarks the last 2 seasons is that JR is not going to let the Cubs take over the city. After this Quintana trade I wonder if he's going to use that same comment.

This is just garbage.

[Panerista]

There is a legitimate argument to be made that this rebuild is going so well that certain players in the minors are too good to leave down there. Yet Greg thinks this rebuild is a bad idea. If you're not a prospect guy, you're NOT a baseball fan. Sorry, but a lot of prospects become MLB players and the White Sox have successfully stockpiled so many that it's hard to fathom none of them panning out.

 

The White Sox have the best minor league system in baseball based on raw AND top end talent. This rebuild is going swimmingly. It's almost go so good, the White Sox will only have one shot at a really high draft pick as guys like Moncada, Lopez, and Kopech can't be held down for much longer.

Edited July 18, 2017 by Sox-35th

[Balta1701]

I take it back. Anderson would be about #8 or 9.

 

But, the top 15 that the Sox have right now, gives them the best system that they've had in many years.

That's my guess about where he'd be if he were still in the system also, because I think he'd be raking in AAA and ready for a callup.

[greg775]

No. Can't assure that for any team in the history of baseball.

 

This is just garbage.

I don't think any mean post is "garbage." There has to be some frustration to go with all the optimism out there.

[greg775]

There is a legitimate argument to be made that this rebuild is going so well that certain players in the minors are too good to leave down there. Yet Greg thinks this rebuild is a bad idea. If you're not a prospect guy, you're NOT a baseball fan. Sorry, but a lot of prospects become MLB players and the White Sox have successfully stockpiled so many that it's hard to fathom none of them panning out.

 

The White Sox have the best minor league system in baseball based on raw AND top end talent. This rebuild is going swimmingly. It's almost go so good, the White Sox will only have one shot at a really high draft pick as guys like Moncada, Lopez, and Kopech can't be held down for much longer.

I am a fan. If the rebuild works, I get to enjoy the success just as you do. May be unfair, but it's the case. You say if you are not a prospect guy you are not a baseball fan. I don't know about that. Not everybody follows that stuff heavily. Since my team is doing the rebuild, then yes I want Moncada, Eloy, all the pitchers the Sox acquired, Robert, etc., to do well. But frankly I am not interested in hunting for their minor league stats. If their highlight videos are right in front of me, sure I'll click on them.

I tend to follow the big league club and wait for the reinforcements. When they come, I have the right to start following them just like any of the people who follow prospects all the way through the minors.

[hogan873]

I am a fan. If the rebuild works, I get to enjoy the success just as you do. May be unfair, but it's the case. You say if you are not a prospect guy you are not a baseball fan. I don't know about that. Not everybody follows that stuff heavily. Since my team is doing the rebuild, then yes I want Moncada, Eloy, all the pitchers the Sox acquired, Robert, etc., to do well. But frankly I am not interested in hunting for their minor league stats. If their highlight videos are right in front of me, sure I'll click on them.

I tend to follow the big league club and wait for the reinforcements. When they come, I have the right to start following them just like any of the people who follow prospects all the way through the minors.

No, not everyone follows the prospects. But if you're team is in a rebuild, you have to pay attention to the prospects. And you don't have to go hunting for stats. They are readily available along with their ratings, a write-up, and projection on when they'll reach the majors. 2017 and 2018 are not about the big league club as much as they will be about developing for the future. If you want to ignore the prospects and open your eyes when they reach the majors, that's fine. But you can't say a rebuild is going terribly because of your own ignorance.

[greg775]

The Sox front office went out its way to destroy the roster of the MLB club. You were asked to rate the rebuild, yet in your judging criteria, you are putting the MLB teams winning percentage at the same level of the farm system's talent pool.

I think the prospects guarantee the Sox a WS or two. I'm just saying as part of the process, you have to look at the lousiness of this season and tack on however bad the team is the next 2 seasons. I think the prospects make sense on paper and hopefully will star in the big leagues. That will be great if Moncada, Eloy and Robert rake the baseball to go with Avi and Abreu and Anderson hopefully having continued success.

 

Yet you have no problem handing out grades to things you just admitted you aren't interested or informed about.

 

It's OK to sit some posts out, greg.

Well, everybody was asked to vote. I gave it a 2 because I have to combine the current misery with what is coming, which is a few WS titles according to the experts, which will be great. But now I say if you combine both factors the rebuild 'currently' is a 5. That's because the current team is that bad. Remember all seasons are equal. The WS seasons are going to be great. But these horrific seasons have to figure in the overall equation/grade.

 

No, not everyone follows the prospects. But if you're team is in a rebuild, you have to pay attention to the prospects. And you don't have to go hunting for stats. They are readily available along with their ratings, a write-up, and projection on when they'll reach the majors. 2017 and 2018 are not about the big league club as much as they will be about developing for the future. If you want to ignore the prospects and open your eyes when they reach the majors, that's fine. But you can't say a rebuild is going terribly because of your own ignorance.

Well, my paying attention to the prospects is assuming they are great. They are mostly all rated very high, baseball people love them, so that's good enough for me. Now when they get to the bigs is when fans like me get excited and 'judge' them. I trust that the key pieces acquired are difference makers and WS are in the Sox future. I'm not saying the rebuild is going terrible BTW, I'm saying the current big league product is beyond horrific. I think that's OK for me to figure into the overall grade. The prospects Hahn have acquired all make sense and all figure to provide October/November baseball to Chicago hopefully for a 5-8 year window.

Edited July 18, 2017 by greg775

[Chicago White Sox]

There is a legitimate argument to be made that this rebuild is going so well that certain players in the minors are too good to leave down there. Yet Greg thinks this rebuild is a bad idea. If you're not a prospect guy, you're NOT a baseball fan. Sorry, but a lot of prospects become MLB players and the White Sox have successfully stockpiled so many that it's hard to fathom none of them panning out.

 

The White Sox have the best minor league system in baseball based on raw AND top end talent. This rebuild is going swimmingly. It's almost go so good, the White Sox will only have one shot at a really high draft pick as guys like Moncada, Lopez, and Kopech can't be held down for much longer.

2018 is going to be ugly, so I'd assume two years of high draft picks.

 

Kopech probably doesn't reach the majors until late 2018 and even then he'll be pushing his innings limit. The three key young guys in the rotation will be Rodon, Lopez, & probably Giolito. This will be the first full season for the latter two guys, so I wouldn't expect anything crazy out of them. The rest of the rotation will likely be filled with fringe prospects or free agent filler. The bullpen could also be really ugly.

 

As for the lineup, yes you'll add Moncada but that's your only potential impact player (and again a rookie). And while we'll likely still have Abreu & maybe Avi, otherwise we'll be relying on Anderson, Davidson, Luery, Engel, Willy, Delmonico, & Narvarez/Smith to play critical roles. While some of those guys are performing well or have some upside, all of them also come with huge question marks. And the rest of our positional talent probably won't hit until 2019 or 2020.

 

So yeah, I'd fully expect an ugly 2018 and two years of high draft picks to support the rebuild.

[knightni]

I think the prospects guarantee the Sox a WS or two. I'm just saying as part of the process, you have to look at the lousiness of this season and tack on however bad the team is the next 2 seasons. I think the prospects make sense on paper and hopefully will star in the big leagues. That will be great if Moncada, Eloy and Robert rake the baseball to go with Avi and Abreu and Anderson hopefully having continued success.

 

 

Well, everybody was asked to vote. I gave it a 2 because I have to combine the current misery with what is coming, which is a few WS titles according to the experts, which will be great. But now I say if you combine both factors the rebuild 'currently' is a 5. That's because the current team is that bad. Remember all seasons are equal. The WS seasons are going to be great. But these horrific seasons have to figure in the overall equation/grade.

 

 

Well, my paying attention to the prospects is assuming they are great. They are mostly all rated very high, baseball people love them, so that's good enough for me. Now when they get to the bigs is when fans like me get excited and 'judge' them. I trust that the key pieces acquired are difference makers and WS are in the Sox future. I'm not saying the rebuild is going terrible BTW, I'm saying the current big league product is beyond horrific. I think that's OK for me to figure into the overall grade. The prospects Hahn have acquired all make sense and all figure to provide October/November baseball to Chicago hopefully for a 5-8 year window.

 

Quality prospects don't guarantee World Championships. They just allow for more budgetary movement to get more value in free agency and to build a winning team.

 

The Cubs had the money to get Arrieta, Heyward, Fowler, Zobrist, and to extend Rizzo because they had young, cheap guys with talent at many starting spots.

[LittleHurt05]

I think the prospects guarantee the Sox a WS or two. I'm just saying as part of the process, you have to look at the lousiness of this season and tack on however bad the team is the next 2 seasons. I think the prospects make sense on paper and hopefully will star in the big leagues. That will be great if Moncada, Eloy and Robert rake the baseball to go with Avi and Abreu and Anderson hopefully having continued success.

 

 

Well, everybody was asked to vote. I gave it a 2 because I have to combine the current misery with what is coming, which is a few WS titles according to the experts, which will be great. But now I say if you combine both factors the rebuild 'currently' is a 5. That's because the current team is that bad. Remember all seasons are equal. The WS seasons are going to be great. But these horrific seasons have to figure in the overall equation/grade.

 

 

Well, my paying attention to the prospects is assuming they are great. They are mostly all rated very high, baseball people love them, so that's good enough for me. Now when they get to the bigs is when fans like me get excited and 'judge' them. I trust that the key pieces acquired are difference makers and WS are in the Sox future. I'm not saying the rebuild is going terrible BTW, I'm saying the current big league product is beyond horrific. I think that's OK for me to figure into the overall grade. The prospects Hahn have acquired all make sense and all figure to provide October/November baseball to Chicago hopefully for a 5-8 year window.

 

What grade do you give the 2009-2016 seasons?

[greg775]

What grade do you give the 2009-2016 seasons?

I'm busy right now. If you could look up the records for me post here and how many games we finished out, I could assess the grade. I enjoy contending for division titles, not being out of it in May/June.

I'm not saying I'm against being great in the future after compiling all the prospects. I am saying it's very painful as a fan to have a team this bad and the wasted seasons have to be considered in assessing a grade to the rebuild.

As far as how the Sox performed before the rebuild, I never said the team was doing it right. I know there have been a lot of horrible acquisitions through the years. I do think Robin was to blame for a lot of it as well and some awful acquisitions who didn't pan out.

[WBWSF]

No. Can't assure that for any team in the history of baseball.

 

This is just garbage.

You're right, my statement is garbage simply because the White Sox team, ownership and front office are garbage.

 

[OmarComing25]

You're right, my statement is garbage simply because the White Sox team, ownership and front office are garbage.

I've seen quite a few tin foil hat-esque posts on Soxtalk, but yours might take the cake for most ludicrous.

[LittleHurt05]

You're right, my statement is garbage simply because the White Sox team, ownership and front office are garbage.

 

Well the team is likely gonna be bad next year as well, the owner isn't selling, and he loves the front office. Gonna be tough sledding for you.

[SCCWS]

I take it back. Anderson would be about #8 or 9.

 

But, the top 15 that the Sox have right now, gives them the best system that they've had in many years.

 

I think most agree with that. But the question is what is the status of the rebuild. Now that the system has positional talent, do they have the right people in place to develop the talent. We have seen pretty good development of young pitchers although some would argue Sale, Q and Rodon skipped most of our system for development. But the FO gets credit for identifying them. I mentioned Anderson because he is the only top positional player that went thru the system and presently the jury is out on his success.

[OmarComing25]

You're right, my statement is garbage simply because the White Sox team, ownership and front office are garbage.

By the way, if the rebuild is just a smoke screen to lower payroll, then why in the world did the White Sox pay $50 million to acquire Robert? That would make zero sense if they're only concerned about making profits. That one move completely shatters your entire theory.

[steveno89]

By the way, if the rebuild is just a smoke screen to lower payroll, then why in the world did the White Sox pay $50 million to acquire Robert? That would make zero sense if they're only concerned about making profits. That one move completely shatters your entire theory.

 

This whole thread is way premature. There is no way to evaluate the rebuild when we are still much closer to the beginning of the process than the end.

 

Given what opportunities have been available, I feel the organization has done its best to reload our farm system with young/controllable talent. It remains be be seen how that talent develops over the coming years.

[Eminor3rd]

Guys: Read the question. "How do you rate the rebuild SO FAR?"

 

SO FAR

 

The OP was just asking about the deals that have been made vs. those we may have missed. This is not a thread about the philosophy of rebuilding or an assessment of Jerry Reinsdorf's career legacy.

Edited July 18, 2017 by Eminor3rd

[WBWSF]

By the way, if the rebuild is just a smoke screen to lower payroll, then why in the world did the White Sox pay $50 million to acquire Robert? That would make zero sense if they're only concerned about making profits. That one move completely shatters your entire theory.

The $50 million dollars given to Robert is mostly deferred money. Robert gets most of the money in the future. JR won't be owning the team when Robert receives the money.

 

[Sockin]

Wanted to share this discussion article between Mayo and Callis on the Sox rebuild.

 

Callis, Mayo discuss historic White Sox rebuild

[hi8is]

Wanted to share this discussion article between Mayo and Callis on the Sox rebuild.

 

Callis, Mayo discuss historic White Sox rebuild

Priceless:

 

Jim: That said, if you can explain why the White Sox gave up Fernando Tatis Jr. in the James Shields trade last year, you're a better man than me.

[KnightsOnMintSt]

Loving the rebuild so far. Big fan of getting Tito Polo in the trade yesterday as well. Have to produce at this point! Excited to see Moncada's first start with the team.

[yesterday333]

If I could change my score I would give it a 9 or 10 now. At the time I gave it a 7 thinking it was a good start, but now our farm is amazing. I haven't been this excited about white sox baseball in a while.

[Dominikk85]

Probably the number one thing allowing that rebuild was the cheap extensions. Hahn did a solid job but the contracts was what made those assets so desirable.

 

I also like the anderson extension even though I am not a fan of his hitting profile. If he doesn't work out some millions are lost but if it works you have a cheap asset to keep or trade.

[caulfield12]

Here's where the all he has to do is average a 0.5-1.0 fwar at SS and he's STILL basically worth that extension argument comes in, counting down 3, 2, 1....