How do you rate the rebuild so far?

[BlackSox13]

Purposely waited on voting until the biggest trades were done. Have non complaints with the rebuild and think the Sox have done well in trades, drafting and the Robert signing. I say 9/10.

[Rowand44]

And lets also be honest here, he's a victim of his own success at this point. He came to the majors last season and played a lot better than any of us thought he would right away. Because of that, he looks a lot worse this season. Next year is a big year for him but I'm confident he rights the ship.

[caulfield12]

Who was the last White Sox rookie (position players) to actually improve their full second season?

 

Crede or Rowand?

 

Or do we have to go all the way back to Durham, C-Lee and Ordonez?

[SonofaRoache]

Avi is on the way out because....he's 26?

 

He is unlikely to go anywhere until he has another repeat season like this, in which case there would be equal arguments for an extension as for trading him with 1 1/3rd remaining years of control (same time next year).

 

 

My point was Avi was on his way out the door prior to having this season, the same boat Tim will find himself in if he doesn't turn it around next year. And no, Avi would not have gotten an extension without this season, and he still may not.

[SonofaRoache]

Dan Hayes was just sticking up for him on Twitter in regards to his off the field experiences and people wanting to send him down to Charlotte...he seems to think the only real way for TA to get back to his old self is to get through this season.

 

Hopefully with the offseason to go reflect on things, he will come back better focused next season.

 

 

I'm not even all that considered with his hitting at this point. He needs to shore up the defense big time and gain a little more patience at the plate. If he's not gonna walk, he will need to hit .290 AND steal bases like he did last year.

[BlackSox13]

The Sox are rebuilding and TA is only 24 playing a premium position. What's to worry about? Let's see what TA does over the next 2-3 years while the Sox are developing their young minor league talent.

[SonofaRoache]

The Sox are rebuilding and TA is only 24 playing a premium position. What's to worry about? Let's see what TA does over the next 2-3 years while the Sox are developing their young minor league talent.

 

 

This is true but I don't want to pass up talent at that position because we have Anderson like organizations do. Anderson hasn't proved his worth yet so we should probably be cautious about giving him an unchallenged role.

[Rowand44]

This is true but I don't want to pass up talent at that position because we have Anderson like organizations do. Anderson hasn't proved his worth yet so we should probably be cautious about giving him an unchallenged role.

I don't think we're going to pass up on talent at any position. Rick has just been accumulating the best talent he can.

[bmags]

I think Rick has been going after offensive and player profiles more than position profiles ala "we need more power" " we need more OBP" "We need more speed" etc.

[iamshack]

I don't think we're going to pass up on talent at any position. Rick has just been accumulating the best talent he can.

I think you are right for the most part, but I do wonder what their thoughts would have been on Albies, and maybe even Torres.

[SonofaRoache]

I don't think we're going to pass up on talent at any position. Rick has just been accumulating the best talent he can.

 

 

It factors into the players we bring in. The top guys will more likely fill needs in trades. I don't think Rick was looking to acquire shortstops because of Tim. We may bring in secondary guys but nothing with high potential.

Edited July 20, 2017 by SonofaRoache

[Dominikk85]

Article on fangraphs. Says hahn got a ton of talent but is leaning toeards the risky high ceiling lowish floor side (technically every prospect is risky but a benintendi less so than a moncada).teams are just very clingy to their high floor advanced prospects.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-white-s...g-bets-on-risk/

Edited July 20, 2017 by GermanSock

[Quin]

Article on fangraphs. Says hahn got a ton of talent but is leaning toeards the risky high ceiling lowish floor side (technically every prospect is risky but a benintendi less so than a moncada).teams are just very clingy to their high floor advanced prospects.

 

I'd say he's gotten a decent mix of high floor, low ceiling and high ceiling, low floor guys.

[Dominikk85]

I'd say he's gotten a decent mix of high floor, low ceiling and high ceiling, low floor guys.

 

The good prospects are all high risk. You could argue rutherford is not that risky due to his advanced hit tool but he is a corner of only guy who is in A ball and yet to grow into his power so there is risk too.

 

Cease, giolito, kopech and lopez are all risky even by pitchers standards an moncada obviously is risky too.

 

Sure guys like collins and burger are high floor but none of the top 100 guys is.

 

A high floor good prospect a a guy like benintendi who can hit, has good plate discipline/contact, some pop and can play some D too.

 

I don't fault hahn for not getting such a guy though because teams just don't trade those guys.

[iamshack]

Article on fangraphs. Says hahn got a ton of talent but is leaning toeards the risky high ceiling lowish floor side (technically every prospect is risky but a benintendi less so than a moncada).teams are just very clingy to their high floor advanced prospects.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-white-s...g-bets-on-risk/

Yeah, that is a bit frightening to read.

[Rowand44]

It factors into the players we bring in. The top guys will more likely fill needs in trades. I don't think Rick was looking to acquire shortstops because of Tim. We may bring in secondary guys but nothing with high potential.

I really don't think that's true.

[witesoxfan]

I really don't think that's true.

 

I don't believe so either. I think he was getting the best players he could. If they could have gotten Torres from the Yankees, they would have. You can always play a SS at another position.

[Buehrlesque]

Article on fangraphs. Says hahn got a ton of talent but is leaning toeards the risky high ceiling lowish floor side (technically every prospect is risky but a benintendi less so than a moncada).teams are just very clingy to their high floor advanced prospects.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-white-s...g-bets-on-risk/

I don't know how much of this I buy. All prospects are risky, and the so-called "safest" and most MLB-ready ones aren't available in trades anyway. Plus, several of the safe options have struggled themselves this year (Bregman, Swanson, Meadows). So there is no surefire way to combat that. The one point I will concede is that through all this trading and drafting, the Sox have obtained mostly bat-first guys with questionable defense, which is a little worrisome and does narrow their avenues to success a little. But overall, I think RH did well and didn't leave anything better on the table.

[witesoxfan]

I don't know how much of this I buy. All prospects are risky, and the so-called "safest" and most MLB-ready ones aren't available in trades anyway. Plus, several of the safe options have struggled themselves this year (Bregman, Swanson, Meadows). So there is no surefire way to combat that. The one point I will concede is that through all this trading and drafting, the Sox have obtained mostly bat-first guys with questionable defense, which is a little worrisome and does narrow their avenues to success a little. But overall, I think RH did well and didn't leave anything better on the table.

 

That's smart though. Bat first guys with questionable defense can be fit into a lineup, especially in the AL, as long as their defense is passable. Glove first players have to develop something with the bat or they become virtually worthless. Cleuluis Rondon fits that profile for the Sox, and Bourjos proved that with the Angels.

 

Beyond that, good defenders will separate themselves as they get holder too, and if they are good enough, teams will find room. They are early in the process yet, give it time, they'll figure it out.

[iamshack]

That's smart though. Bat first guys with questionable defense can be fit into a lineup, especially in the AL, as long as their defense is passable. Glove first players have to develop something with the bat or they become virtually worthless. Cleuluis Rondon fits that profile for the Sox, and Bourjos proved that with the Angels.

 

Beyond that, good defenders will separate themselves as they get holder too, and if they are good enough, teams will find room. They are early in the process yet, give it time, they'll figure it out.

I feel like we are drafting some of the guys with higher floors lately anyways.

[OmarComing25]

Yeah, that is a bit frightening to read.

I think the piece would have been a bit better if he identified the "safer" prospect alternatives that Hahn could have targeted instead, and I'm not sure who those guys are supposed to be (and as pointed out a few posts above, many of the supposed "safer" guys have struggled this year, and even a guy like Benintendi has just been OK). But of the seven in that article, if one is a star, three are good to pretty good, and the rest bust we'd be in good shape.

Edited July 20, 2017 by OmarComing25

[iamshack]

I think the piece would have been a bit better if he identified the "safer" prospect alternatives that Hahn could have targeted instead, and I'm not sure who those guys are supposed to be (and as pointed out a few posts above, many of the supposed "safer" guys have struggled this year, and even a guy like Benintendi has just been OK). But of the seven in that article, if one is a star, three are good to pretty good, and the rest bust we'd be in good shape.

Yeah, I agree, it should have been a bit more thorough considering the nature of the point he was trying to make, but it is thought-provoking if nothing else.

[Dominikk85]

I think the piece would have been a bit better if he identified the "safer" prospect alternatives that Hahn could have targeted instead, and I'm not sure who those guys are supposed to be (and as pointed out a few posts above, many of the supposed "safer" guys have struggled this year, and even a guy like Benintendi has just been OK). But of the seven in that article, if one is a star, three are good to pretty good, and the rest bust we'd be in good shape.

 

I don't think the article was necessarily criticising hahn, he got the talent he could get even if it meant the he bought a little low on some risky guy.

 

The only alternative would have been going for lower ceiling guys, since the high ceiling high floor guys just weren't available.

 

You could say the cubs had a lot of high ceiling guys with high floors because their hitters mostly were good defenders with power and plate discipline and they worked mostly.

 

But that is pretty rare and the cubs also went all hitters and never developed a pitcher.

Edited July 20, 2017 by GermanSock

[Princess Dye]

A+

 

Quintana was never worth this in the offseason.

 

Kahnle was a scrap heap guy, and non big spender teams were in no hurry to get D-Rob off us. I'm fine with not taking more salary in that because we're showing we're willing to do spending things like the Robert contract, during a time where we wont be winning or using Robert to bring fans to games.

 

All of it forward thinking and centered on winning later, and not at all now.

 

Even Giolito, who had a down arrow on him, has turned some aspects of himself around. It's all good.

[Chicago White Sox]

I don't know how much of this I buy. All prospects are risky, and the so-called "safest" and most MLB-ready ones aren't available in trades anyway. Plus, several of the safe options have struggled themselves this year (Bregman, Swanson, Meadows). So there is no surefire way to combat that. The one point I will concede is that through all this trading and drafting, the Sox have obtained mostly bat-first guys with questionable defense, which is a little worrisome and does narrow their avenues to success a little. But overall, I think RH did well and didn't leave anything better on the table.

I think their philosophy is it's easier to coach up defense than it is to teach someone how to make more consistent and/or harder contact.