GGajewski18 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 QUOTE (oldsox @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 07:11 AM) I keep wondering if Swarzak can be re-signed now for 2018. No doubt, he is looking forward to free agency, but still, why not try to keep him if we are not going to get a long time difference maker for him. I don't know how many times we've been over this. Whoever is in their last year of their contract should be traded for whatever we can get, especially relievers. Do we need to go over the Gordon Beckham trade from 2 years ago again? That's why you trade anyone who doesn't have a future here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 06:34 AM) Trading Kanhle now is dumb because he has more upside as a closer in 2018. Worst case scenario, he fails and still is an effective 7th inning guy with dominant stuff. Who else could be the closer next year? With Burdi down, there's no candidate (other than Fulmer or possibly Lopez) for 2018. Resign Swarzak to close? Beck? Danish? Guerrero and Adams are still perceived to be starters. We've already lost any potential Petricka, Putnam and Jones returns. As well as Jennings, for anything more than a flier. Worst case scenario is he gets tommy john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Lopez's Ghost Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 06:34 AM) Trading Kanhle now is dumb because he has more upside as a closer in 2018. Worst case scenario, he fails and still is an effective 7th inning guy with dominant stuff. Who else could be the closer next year? With Burdi down, there's no candidate (other than Fulmer or possibly Lopez) for 2018. Resign Swarzak to close? Beck? Danish? Guerrero and Adams are still perceived to be starters. We've already lost any potential Petricka, Putnam and Jones returns. As well as Jennings, for anything more than a flier. Worrying about 2018's closer is really silly. If God drops everything else, they might - MIGHT - view a .500 record in the distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (Al Lopez's Ghost @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 07:47 AM) Worrying about 2018's closer is really silly. If God drops everything else, they might - MIGHT - view a .500 record in the distance. I think what he was getting at is his value increases if he shows he can close. He might get that opportunity in the next couple of weeks, but the save opportunities seem like they will be few and far between. I just wouldn't trade him for someone interesting. To me it would have to be a top 100 guy. It has to be someone pretty good. He's cheap for a little bit, and while he may be a fluke, if he isn't and you trade him for someone who becomes a utility player, you basically made a trade to make a trade. If he has his control, he's one of the better relievers in baseball. Edited July 17, 2017 by Dick Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 (edited) Gotta agree with DA and Caulfield. More likely than not, he regresses. That's how it goes with relievers. But if he keeps it up for a full season and possibly into the first half of next, he has ridiculous value. I think teams will still be too skeptical to give up anything of great value. Plus, the sox need some relievers on their squad. It will be flat out ugly with swarzak and Robocop gone. Hold on to him, and see if he can prove he is not a fluke. A full season of dominance changed his value from a lottery ticket type prospect to a can't miss top 100 type of guy. Edited July 17, 2017 by ron883 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 I have been one saying our trade proposals are always 50% too much on here (recently much less so, seems like we've gotten a handle on market), but I actually think Kahnle will return a nice value back. I think it will be less than if he showed off as closer for a year, but, we are 4 months from when we thought nate jones would get us 2 top 100 players. Now we forget he's on team. If we are getting a top 10 team prospect that the white sox like a lot and a young projectable player, I would pull trigger. I'm so sick of the Nate Jones, Jesse Crain situations that keep happening to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 09:38 AM) I have been one saying our trade proposals are always 50% too much on here (recently much less so, seems like we've gotten a handle on market), but I actually think Kahnle will return a nice value back. I think it will be less than if he showed off as closer for a year, but, we are 4 months from when we thought nate jones would get us 2 top 100 players. Now we forget he's on team. If we are getting a top 10 team prospect that the white sox like a lot and a young projectable player, I would pull trigger. I'm so sick of the Nate Jones, Jesse Crain situations that keep happening to us. Agreed bmags. Part of me is hoping we keep Kahnle and let him build value as a closer, but then I remembered the wise saying "Always be trading relievers" Relief pitching is so incredibly volatile that I'm not sure we wait if a reasonable offer is made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 07:38 AM) I have been one saying our trade proposals are always 50% too much on here (recently much less so, seems like we've gotten a handle on market), but I actually think Kahnle will return a nice value back. I think it will be less than if he showed off as closer for a year, but, we are 4 months from when we thought nate jones would get us 2 top 100 players. Now we forget he's on team. If we are getting a top 10 team prospect that the white sox like a lot and a young projectable player, I would pull trigger. I'm so sick of the Nate Jones, Jesse Crain situations that keep happening to us. Wow, that would be a tough decision... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 07:34 AM) Trading Kanhle now is dumb because he has more upside as a closer in 2018. Worst case scenario, he fails and still is an effective 7th inning guy with dominant stuff. Who else could be the closer next year? With Burdi down, there's no candidate (other than Fulmer or possibly Lopez) for 2018. Resign Swarzak to close? Beck? Danish? Guerrero and Adams are still perceived to be starters. We've already lost any potential Petricka, Putnam and Jones returns. As well as Jennings, for anything more than a flier. Kahnle's value only goes down from here. If you use him as closer, his value goes down, because his cost through arbitration. I wouldn't trade him just to trade him. If the market undervalues him, then you can keep him in hopes of the market rebounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 The way I see it is that he probably doesn't get you much back in trade right now but his upside is so considerable that there's a real chance you end up with an elite reliever who is either useful for our next contending club or has much more trade value in a year or so. If you got a pitcher back for him right now, you'd be very lucky if you get someone who can be as good as he's been this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 Trade him. Relievers value is so volatile from year to year that you have to cash in when you can. The Sox aren't competing as long is Kahnle is controlled so you might as well get some value to supplement what you are building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 10:33 AM) Trade him. Relievers value is so volatile from year to year that you have to cash in when you can. The Sox aren't competing as long is Kahnle is controlled so you might as well get some value to supplement what you are building. I'm firmly in the trade him camp, but only if the return is reasonable. I'm not asking for a stupid package, but I would need at least one quality prospect back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 16, 2017 -> 10:20 PM) Isn't Garcia projected to be part of the rebuild? He's gonna be 28-29 when we are good again. Is Abreu gonna be the only piece we keep along with Anderson? If we are WS winners with an ENTIRELY rebuilt lineup and entirely new starting rotation and relief corps that will be wild. The sox only control him through 2019. He's going to need an OPS near .900 to have real value, because of his defense. They should probably buy our his last 2 arb years. No use wasting the asset...and if he flops again, no big deal really. And I don't think he will flop. Edited July 17, 2017 by GreenSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 10:38 AM) I'm firmly in the trade him camp, but only if the return is reasonable. I'm not asking for a stupid package, but I would need at least one quality prospect back. I think that is a given, Hahn seems to be a shrewd negotiator and has done well in bringing back talent for the assets that he has moved thus far. I can see him getting a guy in the 75-100 range for Kahnle given his success, control, and salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 06:41 AM) Worst case scenario is he gets tommy john It can be a lot worse than TJ. See Nate Jones, Jesse Crain, or any pitcher that's had shoulder issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 10:55 AM) It can be a lot worse than TJ. See Nate Jones, Jesse Crain, or any pitcher that's had shoulder issues. Well technically worst case scenario would be Yordano Ventura or Jose Fernandez, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 08:59 AM) Well technically worst case scenario would be Yordano Ventura or Jose Fernandez, right? And let's get back on track here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 10:59 AM) Well technically worst case scenario would be Yordano Ventura or Jose Fernandez, right? I think we got to the bottom of this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 10:47 AM) The sox only control him through 2019. He's going to need an OPS near .900 to have real value, because of his defense. They should probably buy our his last 2 arb years. No use wasting the asset...and if he flops again, no big deal really. And I don't think he will flop. There is no reason why the White Sox won't be able to afford to keep Garcia if they like him, but there's also no reason to talk about an extension with him yet. He's done enough to get the arb offer for next year. Right now, with an .850 OPS, rather than .900, he's on a path to a 4 WAR season. If he's able to put up an .850ish OPS again next year, I sit him down and talk to him about high 8 figures and 5 years after 2018 and go from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 10:33 AM) Trade him. Relievers value is so volatile from year to year that you have to cash in when you can. The Sox aren't competing as long is Kahnle is controlled so you might as well get some value to supplement what you are building. But the thing is, his past probably hurts his value right now. If he continues to perform and performs a bit next season, that won't matter as much and he will be worth more. It all depends on the return, but you would think the return doesn't match his current production and paycheck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 11:24 AM) There is no reason why the White Sox won't be able to afford to keep Garcia if they like him, but there's also no reason to talk about an extension with him yet. He's done enough to get the arb offer for next year. Right now, with an .850 OPS, rather than .900, he's on a path to a 4 WAR season. If he's able to put up an .850ish OPS again next year, I sit him down and talk to him about high 8 figures and 5 years after 2018 and go from there. I don't know about an extension. They are likely to have a lot of Avis coming up through the ranks (good hit, no D) and will need to stick some at corner OF spots. I was thinking buy out the last 2 arb years and then trade him next year or the following. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 11:32 AM) The way I see it is that he probably doesn't get you much back in trade right now but his upside is so considerable that there's a real chance you end up with an elite reliever who is either useful for our next contending club or has much more trade value in a year or so. If you got a pitcher back for him right now, you'd be very lucky if you get someone who can be as good as he's been this season. Kahnle is under control for 3.5 years and right now is one of the top 10 relievers in all of baseball. I don't think you get Torres or Frazier, but I bet you could get some high ceiling low level prospect like Rutherford or Groome. Yankees have a lot of depth in the OF, they would trade some of it for success today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 QUOTE (striker @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 11:56 AM) Kahnle is under control for 3.5 years and right now is one of the top 10 relievers in all of baseball. I don't think you get Torres or Frazier, but I bet you could get some high ceiling low level prospect like Rutherford or Groome. Yankees have a lot of depth in the OF, they would trade some of it for success today. If Kahnle had a couple years of performing like this then maybe, but if a deal close to that was on the table the Sox would have already pulled the trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 Nightengale predicted Kahnle/Frazier for Groome/Chavis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrankinSox Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 12:14 PM) Nightengale predicted Kahnle/Frazier for Groome/Chavis Where did Nightengale say this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts