Tommy Kahnle

[Chicago White Sox]

Also re: trading Kahnle now or in the future.

 

We'd have Arrieta if Crain could have been dealt sooner and Nate Jones was possibly going to being back a Ken Giles return. Then there's Putnam.

It's definitely a fair point, but this market could overflowing with relievers in a few weeks. I'd probably take $0.75 on the dollar for Kahnle right now, but I'm worried with the amount of other options available and his lack of history we won't get an offer like that this deadline. With a strong two months of closing however, you might be able to get full value in the offseason.

[OmarComing25]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-white-s...jor-trade-chip/

 

Sullivan thinks we should trade Kahnle and thinks the return should be pretty good if we do. Says he's really surprised that there's been no reported interest in him. This isn't news or anything but I agree with Jeff that the return should be solid, we should be able to get at least one top 100 prospect for him, and I don't think it necessarily would be a guy ranked near the bottom of that list either.

[NCsoxfan]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-white-s...jor-trade-chip/

 

Sullivan thinks we should trade Kahnle and thinks the return should be pretty good if we do. Says he's really surprised that there's been no reported interest in him. This isn't news or anything but I agree with Jeff that the return should be solid, we should be able to get at least one top 100 prospect for him, and I don't think it necessarily would be a guy ranked near the bottom of that list either.

 

I agree that he's much more valuable than people think now. For instance, I don't buy the Nightengale "throw him in with Frazier" and only land Chavis. I also agree that teams are seeing these exact stats, he ISNT going unnoticed by them. Excited to see what we get for him.

[username]

I agree that he's much more valuable than people think now. For instance, I don't buy the Nightengale "throw him in with Frazier" and only land Chavis. I also agree that teams are seeing these exact stats, he ISNT going unnoticed by them. Excited to see what we get for him.

 

I thought Nightengale had them getting Groome and Chavis? Kahnle would make up most of the value of that package (over Frazier).

 

I tend to think you're right that he hasn't gone unnoticed. The stuff and numbers are way too good to just brush off.

 

Also have to believe some of the scouts supposedly checking out Robertson (there's been a crazy amount) are there for Kahnle or both. Robertson is a pretty known quantity. Seems overkill to have scouts all over the sox if it's just that.

[NCsoxfan]

I thought Nightengale had them getting Groome and Chavis? Kahnle would make up most of the value of that package (over Frazier).

 

I tend to think you're right that he hasn't gone unnoticed. The stuff and numbers are way too good to just brush off.

 

Also have to believe some of the scouts supposedly checking out Robertson (there's been a crazy amount) are there for Kahnle or both. Robertson is a pretty known quantity. Seems overkill to have scouts all over the sox if it's just that.

 

He said Groome and Chavis for Robertson and Frazier. Then he said they'd settle for Kahnle and Frazier for just Chavis. I don't think we would make that trade.

[username]

He said Groome and Chavis for Robertson and Frazier. Then he said they'd settle for Kahnle and Frazier for just Chavis. I don't think we would make that trade.

 

LOL did he really? That's pretty bad.

[steveno89]

I thought Nightengale had them getting Groome and Chavis? Kahnle would make up most of the value of that package (over Frazier).

 

I tend to think you're right that he hasn't gone unnoticed. The stuff and numbers are way too good to just brush off.

 

Also have to believe some of the scouts supposedly checking out Robertson (there's been a crazy amount) are there for Kahnle or both. Robertson is a pretty known quantity. Seems overkill to have scouts all over the sox if it's just that.

 

Team's have noticed Kahnle, no doubt. It's whether they are willing to trade significant prospects based off of his breakout 2017 is the question?

[steveno89]

LOL did he really? That's pretty bad.

 

I would decline the deal if only centered around Chavis, who I think will not be able to stick at 3B. His defense is not good and is pretty much a bat only player.

[witesoxfan]

At the end of the day, the Sox should be shopping Tommy Kahnle very heavily, but if they do not get a substantial enough offer, they should keep on to him. I look back to Andrew Miller. The first time he was traded at the deadline, he netted the Red Sox Eduardo Rodriguez. The next time was dealt at the deadline, he netted the Yankees Freyereisen, Sheffield, Frazier, and Heller, which is a much larger and better package.

 

The Sox are going to be bad again next year. If teams have roughly 100 innings to see a new and improved Kahnle, they are going to be more willing to meet the asking price. At the same time, if he gets hurt, then you're SOL.

 

 

[username]

I would decline the deal if only centered around Chavis, who I think will not be able to stick at 3B. His defense is not good and is pretty much a bat only player.

 

Agreed. Need much more for the Kahn-man.

[Balta1701]

At the end of the day, the Sox should be shopping Tommy Kahnle very heavily, but if they do not get a substantial enough offer, they should keep on to him. I look back to Andrew Miller. The first time he was traded at the deadline, he netted the Red Sox Eduardo Rodriguez. The next time was dealt at the deadline, he netted the Yankees Freyereisen, Sheffield, Frazier, and Heller, which is a much larger and better package.

 

The Sox are going to be bad again next year. If teams have roughly 100 innings to see a new and improved Kahnle, they are going to be more willing to meet the asking price. At the same time, if he gets hurt, then you're SOL.

If Kahnle does the exact same job for the next 1 year that he's done for the last 4 months...he's worth a top 50 in baseball prospect. Maybe top 25. Reliever putting up 2+ WAR seasons, still pre-arb until after 2018 and under team control through the end of 2020? That's a top 10 in baseball reliever being paid $500k.

 

The only reason he's not worth that yet is he hasn't established a track record of consistency. You might move him now just to get a head start on things, but you absolutely need a return to make it worth the trade.

[witesoxfan]

If Kahnle does the exact same job for the next 1 year that he's done for the last 4 months...he's worth a top 50 in baseball prospect. Maybe top 25. Reliever putting up 2+ WAR seasons, still pre-arb until after 2018 and under team control through the end of 2020? That's a top 10 in baseball reliever being paid $500k.

 

The only reason he's not worth that yet is he hasn't established a track record of consistency. You might move him now just to get a head start on things, but you absolutely need a return to make it worth the trade.

 

Exactly, but we've seen relievers come out of nowhere, pitch like this for a year, and then fall by the way side for one reason or another.

 

You trade him now, you can probably get a top 100-150 plus a lotto ticket. You wait and he continues, then you are bringing in even better prospects. You wait and he flops, you are looking at a DFA and hoping to get a live body.

[iamshack]

Exactly, but we've seen relievers come out of nowhere, pitch like this for a year, and then fall by the way side for one reason or another.

 

You trade him now, you can probably get a top 100-150 plus a lotto ticket. You wait and he continues, then you are bringing in even better prospects. You wait and he flops, you are looking at a DFA and hoping to get a live body.

I understand what you're saying, but given our newly-found depth, and a number of other pieces to move still, plus the stuff he has, I'd take the risk and hold if that was the offer I received today.

[Dick Allen]

One thing that won't be the downfall with Kahnle is stuff. He figured out how to throw strikes. I have mentioned this before, but I really don't know of guys who all of a sudden found the strike zone for more than a couple of outings, and then just lost it again, but I am sure there are examples. To me he is like Matt Thornton who Copp changed in one side session and he was fixed forever. If Kahnle's control is fixed permanently, he is going to be really good as long as he is healthy.

[NCsoxfan]

LOL did he really? That's pretty bad.

 

"Prediction: The Red Sox would love to acquire Frazier and closer David Robertson to be Craig Kimbrel’s setup man, but it would cost No. 2 prospect Jason Groome and No. 9 prospect Michael Chavis. If they instead take reliever Tommy Kahnle and Frazier, they would have to give up only Chavis and a fringe prospect."

 

IMO that overvalues Robertson and undervalues Kahnle

[SoCalSox]

"Prediction: The Red Sox would love to acquire Frazier and closer David Robertson to be Craig Kimbrel’s setup man, but it would cost No. 2 prospect Jason Groome and No. 9 prospect Michael Chavis. If they instead take reliever Tommy Kahnle and Frazier, they would have to give up only Chavis and a fringe prospect."

 

IMO that overvalues Robertson and undervalues Kahnle

 

I'd say that first return is what it would take for Kahnle & Frazier. Chavis & a solid secondary piece would be good for Robertson & Frazier, IMO.

[witesoxfan]

One thing that won't be the downfall with Kahnle is stuff. He figured out how to throw strikes. I have mentioned this before, but I really don't know of guys who all of a sudden found the strike zone for more than a couple of outings, and then just lost it again, but I am sure there are examples. To me he is like Matt Thornton who Copp changed in one side session and he was fixed forever. If Kahnle's control is fixed permanently, he is going to be really good as long as he is healthy.

 

I was considering David Aardsma back in 2007, but even then, he had 9 BB in his first 20.2 IP.

 

Again, I really don't care either way, because the Sox are going to make what they feel is best for the organization. Frankly, you do mitigate some risk moving Kahnle now, and given the returns the Sox have gotten for Sale, Eaton, and Quintana, maybe that's not the worst thing in the world. But maybe holding on and hoping that he continues pitching his ass off pays off and you get another huge return for him. I guess I'm just glad I'm not the one who has to make that call.

[beautox]

My prediction, Kahnle goes to Tampa Bay for OF/1B Jake Bauers and OF Jesus Sanchez. Tampa is in the thick of things, 1B/DH is at a recent all time low in terms of WAR per $ and they can re-sign LoMo in the offseason. By trading for Kahnle they get an ace in their bullpen and if they fall out of it next year he can be moved for a similar if not better package. Hahn gets to mitigate his risk with Kahnle while still walking away with two more top 100 players, one that will be ready mid '18 and a future outfield of Jimenez/Robert/Sanchez to sell fans to dream on.

[Balta1701]

Exactly, but we've seen relievers come out of nowhere, pitch like this for a year, and then fall by the way side for one reason or another.

 

You trade him now, you can probably get a top 100-150 plus a lotto ticket. You wait and he continues, then you are bringing in even better prospects. You wait and he flops, you are looking at a DFA and hoping to get a live body.

If I'm moving him now, I think I want a guy who is top 100, maybe even pushing top 75. If I'm getting 2 guys, I would go 2 guys in the 100-150 range. But, I'm also listening to my coaches and scouts a lot, and if they keep telling me he's the real deal that would probably be enough to shut it down. With what we've piled up so far I'll roll the dice on getting back the next CFrazier.

[GenericUserName]

I think we are going to keep Kahnle because so far it seems that Hahn is willing to take risks and keep players if he does not get a return he thinks is suitable and I can't see any team paying for his current production with any regression. It worked out in big ways twice already with Sale traded in the offseason instead of at the previous trade deadline and Q being traded now instead of in the offseason, plus it seems like it will work out with a potential Robertson deal. On the other hand, Nate Jones is done for the year and who knows if any team will be willing to give up anything of substance for him once he's healthy. But either way Hahn has shown he is not risk averse and the difference between the potential payoff and the value we can probably get now is probably large enough that he'll take the chance and hold Kahnle.

[Jake]

I think the reason there are indications that Robertson has more value is that teams in the hunt really value the certainty with him. Robertson has been incredibly consistent for years and has performed at a high level for the Yankees. You know you're getting a guy who won't crumble under the pressure and isn't just in the middle of a hot streak.

 

Kahnle obviously lacks the track record and has looked shaky in several of his recent tough appearances (i.e., with a lead to protect).

[GreenSox]

Another laudatory fangrphs article on Kahnle today...comparing him to Andrew Miller.

Reading that, don't want to trade him quite yet.

[steveno89]

Another laudatory fangrphs article on Kahnle today...comparing him to Andrew Miller.

Reading that, don't want to trade him quite yet.

 

Solid offer comes around you deal him. Relievers are so volatile.

 

 

[striker]

I think Kahnle's floor is what the Red Sox paid for Tyler Thornburg, which was Yeison Coca (Red Sox #25), Josh Pennington (Red Sox #22), Mauricio Dubon (Red Sox #7) and Travis Shaw. Obviously we don't want a major leaguer like Shaw, we prefer prospects, but he had 5 years of control and was worth 2.2WAR when he was traded.

 

I think if you look at the teams that are in the race: Brewers, Cubs, Red Sox, Yankees, Tampa, Dodgers, Diamondback, Rockies, Astros, there will be an arms race for sure.

[witesoxfan]

I think Kahnle's floor is what the Red Sox paid for Tyler Thornburg, which was Yeison Coca (Red Sox #25), Josh Pennington (Red Sox #22), Mauricio Dubon (Red Sox #7) and Travis Shaw. Obviously we don't want a major leaguer like Shaw, we prefer prospects, but he had 5 years of control and was worth 2.2WAR when he was traded.

 

I think if you look at the teams that are in the race: Brewers, Cubs, Red Sox, Yankees, Tampa, Dodgers, Diamondback, Rockies, Astros, there will be an arms race for sure.

 

I have no problem getting an MLB player who has 5-6 years of team control. It's getting a guy like Schwarber who really only has like 4 years of control left that it gets tricky.