iamshack Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 08:47 PM) Sorry if I missed it, but what is his back injury He hasn't played in a month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 QUOTE (Tony @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 08:49 PM) So I'll ask again. What is the MOST you'd give up for Swarzak in our system if the Sox really needed him? Carson Fulmer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Fwiw, in a much weaker Rangers system last year, Cordell was their 6th best prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 08:44 PM) Who did you expect for a rental? Especially in this market. Also, don't slam Cordell as being useless before he even gets a chance with us. Please explain THIS market, which we heard was a seller's market due to all the teams still in contention in the AL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 04:51 AM) Carson Fulmer. You know I love Fulmer but that would be too much for what, 20 innings of middle relief/set-up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 04:54 AM) Please explain THIS market, which we heard was a seller's market due to all the teams still in contention in the AL. All I've heard for weeks is it's a buyers market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 08:54 PM) You know I love Fulmer but that would be too much for what, 20 innings of middle relief/set-up? PLAYOFFS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 08:55 PM) All I've heard for weeks is it's a buyers market. Because it's July 25th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 03:55 AM) Because it's July 25th. But there will be more relievers available. I did hear Hahn say last week that the Orioles putting their guys on the market hurt a bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 10:55 PM) Because it's July 25th. It is absolutely a buyer's market. There are tons of relief options available, why overpay? Sox wanted to get a deal done and got a legitimate prospect in exchange. Hard to complain for a rental. Edited July 26, 2017 by steveno89 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Sox traded Swarzak for a 45FV prospect, some might have wanted a younger middle infield type like Lucius Fox. Hahn turned a rec project into 11M of surplus value;its a win. link fangraphs top 25 brewers prospects Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (beautox @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 09:00 PM) Sox traded Swarzak for a 45FV prospect, some might have wanted a younger middle infield type like Lucius Fox. Hahn turned a rec project into 11M of surplus value;its a win. link fangraphs top 25 brewers prospects Please explain then what we were doing when we traded for James Shields. How much surplus value did we create? How does surplus value work when you already have 5 of these same players and nowhere to play them? Edited July 26, 2017 by iamshack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 11:01 PM) Please explain then what we were doing when we traded for James Shields. How much surplus value did we create? the bed was s*** on that deal. Hopefully that won't happen again going forward. The take away is our LatAm correctly identified and signed a future top 50 prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Harold Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 10:34 PM) There is something called groupthink that happens, and it absolutely happens here. Compare the threads discussing what we think should be the returns for players, and then compare the actual returns for players. The difference is ridiculous. Considering that this is a message board it's not surprising. We're all fans and follow the sport/team more intensely than others, but regardless what we think we know, we aren't in the know of what's actually being discussed (Unless one/some of us are secretly Rick, Kenny, Jerry, etc., I apologize) or what true value of said asset actually is. Soxtalk mock proposals are just that. I'd say I was a bit let down by the Yankees trade after it came out, this one I was pleasantly surprised with. You don't have to agree with me and I don't care if you do and vice versa. You don't have to like the trade either, it's your right. Calling everyone sheep for being optimistic about a return on a player signed to a 1 year milb deal is pretty ridiculous. It's not like the Sox traded away Andrew Miller for Timo Perez 2.0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 11:01 PM) Please explain then what we were doing when we traded for James Shields. How much surplus value did we create? The Shields deal was a f*ck up, no doubt. This is a different situation. Swarzak was never getting us a top prospect, regardless of how well he pitched this season. We leveraged a minor league deal guy into a potential solid player, which is always a good move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 04:01 AM) Please explain then what we were doing when we traded for James Shields. How much surplus value did we create? How does surplus value work when you already have 5 of these same players and nowhere to play them? No doubt the Shields trade was a fireable offense. There are no excuses for it. It showed a horrible lack of scouting acumen for two players. thats way different than this trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 11:01 PM) How does surplus value work when you already have 5 of these same players and nowhere to play them? Well seeing how Cordell is viewed as a super-sub type and not a true 4th OF he will have plenty of chances to play. Melky and Avi are on their way out and we're likely not going to see any of the big three till Sept of next year with Jimenez so the sox have a year and a half to see what they have in Leury, Engel, Willy, Liriano, Polo, Cordell and Tilson if he can get healthy. Additionally the defense in the outfield will be much improved with Cordell/Engel/Leury over Avi & Melky so thats a win for our young pitching coming up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (Sleepy Harold @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 09:05 PM) Considering that this is a message board it's not surprising. We're all fans and follow the sport/team more intensely than others, but regardless what we think we know, we aren't in the know of what's actually being discussed (Unless one/some of us are secretly Rick, Kenny, Jerry, etc., I apologize) or what true value of said asset actually is. Soxtalk mock proposals are just that. I'd say I was a bit let down by the Yankees trade after it came out, this one I was pleasantly surprised with. You don't have to agree with me and I don't care if you do and vice versa. You don't have to like the trade either, it's your right. Calling everyone sheep for being optimistic about a return on a player signed to a 1 year milb deal is pretty ridiculous. It's not like the Sox traded away Andrew Miller for Timo Perez 2.0. I called people sheep for accusing me of being an idiot for wanting a player better than Ryan Cordell, when that was nowhere near what the vast majority was speculating prior to the deal occurring. Just because Rick Hahn made the trade doesn't suddenly mean we all have to think it's wonderful, does it? And yet that is what is expected here. See the difference? Edited July 26, 2017 by iamshack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (beautox @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 09:09 PM) Well seeing how Cordell is viewed as a super-sub type and not a true 4th OF he will have plenty of chances to play. Melky and Avi are on their way out and we're likely not going to see any of the big three till Sept of next year with Jimenez so the sox have a year and a half to see what they have in Leury, Engel, Willy, Liriano, Polo, Cordell and Tilson if he can get healthy. Additionally the defense in the outfield will be much improved with Cordell/Engel/Leury over Avi & Melky so thats a win for our young pitching coming up. Avi is not on his way out. Yet. Scouts have said Cordell is not good "in the dirt." I'd say that limits his ability to be a super-sub and makes him more likely to be an OFer. We have OFers. We have more OFers than we know what to do with. Edited July 26, 2017 by iamshack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 It was definitely a buyer's market. The Orioles have a plethora of good relievers available and then there's also Hand/Neshek/Wilson and potentially Reed or Iglesias, most of whom had more trade value than Swarzak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 QUOTE (Tony @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 09:12 PM) That point in the argument when you realize it's you and Greg vs. Hahn, the media and the rest of the board. And you are acting like a f***ing dick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 04:05 AM) No doubt the Shields trade was a fireable offense. There are no excuses for it. It showed a horrible lack of scouting acumen for two players. thats way different than this trade. Now that's the old fathom! I like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 11:13 PM) And you are acting like a f***ing dick. Jeff Passan "How rebuilding is done: Sign guy in late January to minor league deal (Swarzak), turn him into legit prospect (Cordell). Bravo, White Sox." Even national guys are on board with this move Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Also I'm sure most realize Mahalanobis Comps are just for fun, but Cordell's comp is Aaron Rowand. a comp outfield of Aaron Rowand(Cordell)/Randy Winn(Engel)/Angel Pagan(Leury) sounds fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jul 25, 2017 -> 09:17 PM) Jeff Passan "How rebuilding is done: Sign guy in late January to minor league deal (Swarzak), turn him into legit prospect (Cordell). Bravo, White Sox." Even national guys are on board with this move Followed up with: The Fear with Ryan Cordell: No true standout tool. One scout just texted: "Fairly ordinary across the board." Sees him as a 4th OF type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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