Anthony Swarzak to Brewers; Sox receive Ryan Cordell

[Dick Allen]

I don't understand why getting such an old prospect. Those guys never really become good players. Yeah he is mlb ready but that is not really what the sox need. He will get the sox some innings in the field and probably is not below replacement level but I would have preferred a real prospect.

 

You can't expect a big return for swarzak but I would have preferred a young guy with upside.

 

But hahn is of course not an idiot, he probably wasn't offered anything better. I'm just surprised the nats or astros who both need bullpen did not offer more than a possible 5th outfield prospect in his mid 20s.

The concept here is nice. Milky will be gone sooner or later. If he performs, he will get a major league opportunity. He can battle wth Engel and hopefully Tilson next year,and if one of the 3 shows they are useful moving forward, that is great.

[Bob Sacamano]

There is something called groupthink that happens, and it absolutely happens here.

 

Compare the threads discussing what we think should be the returns for players, and then compare the actual returns for players.

 

The difference is ridiculous.

 

Yeah...that just means we were shooting to high. Whats your point? We're not gms or scouts who can evaluate trade value.

[Bob Sacamano]

I called people sheep for accusing me of being an idiot for wanting a player better than Ryan Cordell, when that was nowhere near what the vast majority was speculating prior to the deal occurring.

 

Just because Rick Hahn made the trade doesn't suddenly mean we all have to think it's wonderful, does it? And yet that is what is expected here.

 

See the difference?

 

Vast majority of...posters on this board who aren't scouts or gms? Only thing we all know (except you apparently) is that it is a buyer's market.

Edited July 26, 2017 by soxfan2014

[iamshack]

Vast majority of...posters on this board who aren't scouts or gms?

You missed the s***show, sorry.

[iamshack]

I haven't seen this trade officially announced by either team yet? Maybe the prospects back injury and medicals are holding something up?

Wow...looks like you are on to something...although I dunno how you trade for a guy with a back injury that's been on the DL for a month and not go through the medicals pretty well first...

[iamshack]

Brewers Media

 

WASHINGTON -- Trying to hang on atop the National League Central, the Brewers have reportedly agreed to a trade for White Sox reliever Anthony Swarzak, a right-hander having a career year in his age-31 season.

 

A source told MLB.com's Scott Merkin that the White Sox would get Minor League outfielder Ryan Cordell, who has been on the disabled list at Triple-A Colorado Springs since the end of June but is rated the Brewers' 17th-best prospect in the newly updated MLBPipeline.com rankings. The Brewers did not confirm reports of the trade, and nothing was officially announced as of Tuesday night.

Edited July 26, 2017 by iamshack

[Bob Sacamano]

You missed the s***show, sorry.

 

Saw the one tweet about a scout saying we'd get a prospect outside of top 150 (if that's what you're defining as vast majority) and they did exactly that. No top 150 prospect.

[Dick Allen]

Brewers Media

From the MJS

 

The swap was reported by several outlets and confirmed on the other end in Chicago, but the Brewers had no official announcement Tuesday night. The delay might have been to allow the White Sox to examine medical reports on Cordell, who has not played since June 26 because of a back problem.

[Bob Sacamano]

We get a bat who can plug into an OF spot immediately when he is healthy and when Melky and possibly Garcia are moved. We don't have many bats in the system that are close or ready for another 2-3 years so he gets an opportunity to prove himself during that time.

[FT35]

I think we all need to ground ourselves with our expectations because it's easy to see that some people here are still high on landing top 10/top 50 prospects. We all just need to remember that typically, it takes A LOT for those higher level players to even be considered in deals. It takes a Sale/Quintana type player or a significant package of great/controllable talent to get GMs to loosen their grip on those top level players. But since acquiring them has somewhat become the norm for us--we're left searching for that same high with guys like Frazier and Swarzak when we need to sit back a little and think about the scale more realistically. I know it's exciting, but the big top-prospect acquisitions are likely over--we were able to squeeze one more out by packaging several players to NY, but the firework show is about to thin out in a major way because we're out of the big names that would actually acquire such high-level prospects now. Our system is absolutely loaded and we were not likely to acquire a difference making prospect or one that would even crack our top 10 for Swarzak or Melky or any SP that we have left to deal. The thrill seekers can get excited if Abreu or Rodon names start to come up, but I just don't see that happening now.

 

But...just because a prospect is not ranked high now doesn't mean he can't become that. If we get someone--it's because our guys have watched him a lot and seen something they think they can either use now or develop. That's what we have in Cordell and that's not a bad thing. High-ceiling prospects are off the table in decent bullpen rental conversations. But a player like Cordell seems like a fair get.

[Dick Allen]

I think we all need to ground ourselves with our expectations because it's easy to see that some people here are still high on landing top 10/top 50 prospects. We all just need to remember that typically, it takes A LOT for those higher level players to even be considered in deals. It takes a Sale/Quintana type player or a significant package of great/controllable talent to get GMs to loosen their grip on those top level players. But since acquiring them has somewhat become the norm for us--we're left searching for that same high with guys like Frazier and Swarzak when we need to sit back a little and think about the scale more realistically. I know it's exciting, but the big top-prospect acquisitions are likely over--we were able to squeeze one more out by packaging several players to NY, but the firework show is about to thin out in a major way because we're out of the big names that would actually acquire such high-level prospects now. Our system is absolutely loaded and we were not likely to acquire a difference making prospect or one that would even crack our top 10 for Swarzak or Melky or any SP that we have left to deal. The thrill seekers can get excited if Abreu or Rodon names start to come up, but I just don't see that happening now.

 

But...just because a prospect is not ranked high now doesn't mean he can't become that. If we get someone--it's because our guys have watched him a lot and seen something they think they can either use now or develop. That's what we have in Cordell and that's not a bad thing. High-ceiling prospects are off the table in decent bullpen rental conversations. But a player like Cordell seems like a fair get.

Some scouts do seem to love this guy, but tfor me, there was caution even before I had known he was out a month with a back issue. Right now, it's a blah trade. In a year or two, maybe he's really good. I just wouldn't count on it.

 

The only thing is, if Hahn is pulling the trigger, either other teams aren't offering much or the White Sox really like this guy.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Dick Allen

[Bob Sacamano]

Some scouts do seem to love this guy, but tfor me, there was caution even before I had known he was out a month with a back issue. Right now, it's a blah trade. In a year or two, maybe he's really good. I just wouldn't count on it.

 

The only thing is, if Hahn is pulling the trigger, either other teams aren't offering much or the White Sox really like this guy.

 

Probably more this. I bet at least 6 more relievers go between now and deadline.

[shipps]

This looks similar to a TCQ type of acquisition. Of course, that would be best case scenario but all things considered I think that is along the lines of what Hahn was seeing in this kid. Somewhat similar minor league numbers and both acquired at 25.

 

TCQ

Year Age Tm Lg G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB Pos Awards

2003 Did not play in major or minor leagues (Injured)

2004 21 ARI-min A+,AA,Fal 125 543 452 103 150 33 1 21 89 5 7 43 56 .332 .435 .549 .983 248 16 43 0 5 2 LNR,ELP,SCO · CALL,TL,AZFL

2005 22 ARI-min AAA 136 561 452 98 136 28 4 21 89 9 1 72 71 .301 .422 .520 .942 235 14 29 0 8 0 TUC · PCL

2006 23 ARI-min AAA 85 396 318 66 92 30 3 9 52 5 0 45 46 .289 .424 .487 .912 155 13 31 0 2 1 TUC · PCL

2006 23 ARI NL 57 191 166 23 42 13 3 9 32 1 0 15 34 .253 .342 .530 .872 115 88 6 8 1 1 2 9/7

2007 24 ARI-min AAA 33 135 115 30 40 12 1 4 27 0 1 9 14 .348 .430 .574 1.004 66 2 9 0 2 1

 

TRC

 

2013 21 -0.2 Spokane NORW A- TEX 64 262 232 34 56 12 0 5 23 19 4 23 53 .241 .322 .358 .680 83 4 5 1 1 1

2014 22 0.2 2 Teams 2 Lgs A-A+ TEX 89 380 336 65 107 20 6 13 59 21 4 34 66 .318 .385 .530 .914 178 6 4 3 3 0

2014 22 -0.9 Myrtle Beach CARL A+ TEX 16 70 62 12 19 2 2 5 19 3 1 7 13 .306 .371 .645 1.017 40 0 0 0 1 0

2014 22 0.5 Hickory SALL A TEX 73 310 274 53 88 18 4 8 40 18 3 27 53 .321 .388 .504 .891 138 6 4 3 2 0

2015 23 -0.3 2 Teams 2 Lgs A+-AA TEX 124 561 507 84 137 18 8 18 75 20 6 40 126 .270 .327 .444 .771 225 8 6 2 6 2

2015 23 -1.2 Frisco TL AA TEX 56 242 221 26 48 5 3 5 18 10 1 12 73 .217 .263 .335 .597 74 2 3 2 4 0

2015 23 0.4 High Desert CALL A+ TEX 68 319 286 58 89 13 5 13 57 10 5 28 53 .311 .376 .528 .904 151 6 3 0 2 2

2015-16 23 -4.6 Magallanes VEWL FgW 17 52 48 5 11 2 1 0 4 0 0 4 12 .229 .288 .313 .601 15 0 0 0 0 0

2016 24 0.2 Frisco TL AA TEX 107 445 405 69 107 22 5 19 70 12 4 32 97 .264 .319 .484 .803 196 4 3 0 5 1

2016-17 24 -2.4 Toros DOWL FgW 13 48 43 1 8 0 1 0 1 1 0 4 11 .186 .255 .233 .488 10 3 0 1 0 0

2017 25 -1.4 Colorado Springs PCL AAA MIL 68 292 261 49 74 18 5 10 45 9 4 25 65 .284 .349 .506 .855 132 1 3 0 3 0

[shipps]

Those stats were formatted in the post soooo much easier to read in the text box for the post then what actually got posted. Sorry.

[iamshack]

Carlos Quentin was a big time prospect that had sort of stalled out a bit in the DBacks system, wasn't he?

 

I don't think Cordell's mom even thinks Cordell had the pedigree that TCQ had.

[shipps]

Carlos Quentin was a big time prospect that had sort of stalled out a bit in the DBacks system, wasn't he?

 

I don't think Cordell's mom even thinks Cordell had the pedigree that TCQ had.

 

Oh you have a negative take on Cordell? Please tell us more.

[Dick Allen]

Carlos Quentin was a big time prospect that had sort of stalled out a bit in the DBacks system, wasn't he?

 

I don't think Cordell's mom even thinks Cordell had the pedigree that TCQ had.

No, and there is nothing similar about their minor league stats.

 

This guy has supposedly changed some things up, so maybe he is interesting. We will see, but apparently some alarms must be going off as the White Sox examine his medical records.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Dick Allen

[steveno89]

Carlos Quentin was a big time prospect that had sort of stalled out a bit in the DBacks system, wasn't he?

 

I don't think Cordell's mom even thinks Cordell had the pedigree that TCQ had.

 

Cordell projects to be a quality defensive player, with plus speed, solid range and arm. It's not easy to find a player that can play a solid center field that also has some potential with the bat.

 

He's a little old for a traditional prospect, but that does not mean he cannot become a useful role player for the White Sox moving forward.

[iamshack]

Oh you have a negative take on Cordell? Please tell us more.

Carlos Quentin was the 20th rated prospect in baseball in 2006.

[shipps]

No, and there is nothing similar about their minor league stats.

 

This guy has supposedly changed some things up, so maybe he is interesting. We will see, but apparently some alarms must be going off as the White Sox examine his medical records.

 

Identical no. I love the absolutism that goes on around here. Cordell obviously isnt GOD. He had a lot less consistency but he possessed some solid power and OPS along the lines of what GOD produced.

[Dick Allen]

Identical no. I love the absolutism that goes on around here. Cordell obviously isnt GOD. He had a lot less consistency but he possessed some solid power and OPS along the lines of what GOD produced.

Quentin put up much bigger numbers as a 21 year old in AAA than Cordell is doing as a 25 year old. Their AA numbers are nowhere near close, and Quentin was 4 or 5 years younger. They aren't similar at all other than they play the OF and are professional baseball players.

 

You would not be able to get a present day version of prospect Carlos Quentin for 2 months of Anthony Swarzak.

 

Up until this season, if Cordell was older than average at a level he did well. If he was younger than average, he was pretty bad. He has changed his swing, maybe some things will go right. The White Sox are due to hit on some of these.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Dick Allen

[shipps]

Carlos Quentin was the 20th rated prospect in baseball in 2006.

 

I am not going to take the bait to try an argue that Cordell is TCQ. That isnt the point I was trying to make. I am just open to trying to understand what Hahn may see as best case scenario with this prospect. The guy has power and he is seemingly knocking at the door of the major leagues by the opinion of people who have actually watched the guy play.

[iamshack]

I am not going to take the bait to try an argue that Cordell is TCQ. That isnt the point I was trying to make. I am just open to trying to understand what Hahn may see as best case scenario with this prospect. The guy has power and he is seemingly knocking at the door of the major leagues by the opinion of people who have actually watched the guy play.

I wasn't offering any bait, Shipps.

 

Just like many of you guys haven't been shy to disagree with my opinions, I am telling you that that comparison was not valid. Not close.

[TaylorStSox]

You guys are still arguing about Anthony Swarzak?

[iamshack]

You guys are still arguing about Anthony Swarzak?

I've moved on to hoping the deal gets axed due to medicals