Tyler Flowers is MLB's Most-Improved Player

[Steve9347]

https://theringer.com/tyler-flowers-atlanta...ed-160c5100f9c7

 

I still say he sucks.

 

However: The new Flowers edges out Justin Turner, Mookie Betts, José Altuve, and Charlie Blackmon, among other 2017 standouts on the WARP leaderboard. Sure, he’s hitting .319/.412/.459, a sweet slash line for a catcher, but his hitting alone didn’t propel him to fifth on that leaderboard. This is going to take a deeper dive.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Steve9347

[OmarComing25]

Flowers' career BABIP is .330 though, and even with a 60 point drop his numbers will still look good if that improved K rate is legitimate. But he wasn't going to be a part of the next good White Sox team anyway, so it doesn't matter.

[NCsoxfan]

I say good for Tyler Flowers. There's guys who haven't panned out elsewhere who have done so with the Sox, and vice versa. Hopefully for his sake he'll get a decent contract and make some nice $ for when he's done playing.

[maxjusttyped]

I agree Flowers probably does suck still. His BABIP of .387 is coming down and he's only just eclipsed 200 PAs. What's interesting is his K rate is down 19.9%. This season has brought his career K% down to 30.9%. That's a remarkable improvement.

There is years worth of data to suggest he's one of the best framers and therefore defensive players in baseball. It's very difficult to "suck" if that's your starting point. His batted ball profile, career numbers, and projections all seem to support the fact he's a high BABIP guy, but it goes without saying that .387 isn't sustainable for anyone. But even if you don't believe his offensive improvements are legitimate his defensive value alone is likely worth ~1.5 WAR on its own.

[harkness99]

good for him...

 

He was never going to end up being a part of a rebuild here however.

 

Pitch framing is such a real thing.. it's funny how some still deny it.

[greg775]

I say good for Tyler Flowers. There's guys who haven't panned out elsewhere who have done so with the Sox, and vice versa. Hopefully for his sake he'll get a decent contract and make some nice $ for when he's done playing.

I agree. He's already done a lot more than most ballplayers, assured himself a great pension and likely a spot on a big league club for a few more years. Good for him. He's way better than the hacks who have replaced him the last few seasons.

[Ducksnort]

I agree. He's already done a lot more than most ballplayers, assured himself a great pension and likely a spot on a big league club for a few more years. Good for him. He's way better than the hacks who have replaced him the last few seasons.

I think everyone was just spoiled with AJ, then we were brought back to earth with Phegley and Co.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Scoots

[zisk]

I say good for Tyler Flowers. There's guys who haven't panned out elsewhere who have done so with the Sox, and vice versa. Hopefully for his sake he'll get a decent contract and make some nice $ for when he's done playing.

 

Agreed. Just a so-so player having his career year. He always seemed to

 

be a genuinely good person so I'm happy for him and his family.

[FT35]

I always liked him when he was here. I'd often cringe and look away when he came up to bat, but he called a good game and was very humble about his success. He knew he wasn't some super star and he never pretended that he was--gave good humble answers in interviews, took responsibility for his shortcomings and gave it his all when he was here. I'm glad he's finding his nitch.

Edited July 7, 2017 by FT35

[southsider2k5]

Avi sez Que?

[Ozzie for Manager]

Agreed. Just a so-so player having his career year. He always seemed to

 

be a genuinely good person so I'm happy for him and his family.

Quick story on Tyler. My son and I flew from NC to Chicago and saw two games 2 years ago. Tyler caught both and after an extra inning game where Avi hit a double to win it against the Angels we waited outside by the parking lot.

My son was 10 and he wanted to see every player he could and try to get a ball signed. We were there til around almost 1AM and as Tyler was driving out of the parking lot he saw my son and another boy waiting there behind the barrier. He beeped his car horn and told them to meet him at the end of the barriers. They did and he opened his car door and signed stuff for the boys. He made their day. And he did this after catching about 11 innings.

Adam Laroche also stopped and was very nice, Danks had pitched well that night and he was with his dad and he signed. Most guys walked by or drove on by the kids.

 

Another cool story from the night before was when my son had his "Alexei Rameriz is my pick to click" sign and he was holding it up and Alexei drove out in his Ferrari or Lamborghini. It was a sweet ride. He saw the sign, stopped and rolled down the window, pointed and had the attendant bring my son's ball over to him to sign. It was a cool gesture, made my son's trip.

[steveno89]

I agree Flowers probably does suck still. His BABIP of .387 is coming down and he's only just eclipsed 200 PAs. What's interesting is his K rate is down 19.9%. This season has brought his career K% down to 30.9%. That's a remarkable improvement.

 

No way Flowers continues with a .387 BABIP the rest of the way. He's having a great season, but there's too much evidence to suggest he is a fluke to believe the bat he is showing now is legitimate.

 

Same goes for Avisail Garcia. Is he improved? Probably, but he is definitely not keeping a batting average over .300 by the end of the year

[witesoxfan]

The dude has been running a BABIP of about .360 for his past 1200 plate appearances, and is one of the best framers in the league, nevermind the leadership skills so many Sox players suggested he had. His .387 BABIP is unsustainable because of a 24% line drive rate, not who he is as a hitter. Tyler Flowers is a good player, and I am very happy for him.

 

He's 31 and probably will only be around as a starter for another 2 years. The Sox still screwed up letting him go.

 

However, the biggest knock on Tyler Flowers when he was the biggest piece acquired for Javy Vazquez was that his defense was probably not going to take him to the big leagues. He's one of the best catchers in the game at framing, which is seemingly the best skill a catcher can have. The Sox may not develop hitters, but they apparently can develop catchers defensively. Chris Stewart stuck around for a long time with a bat that was butt because he could frame. This is why I don't worry about Zach Collins hitting .200 or whatever in A-ball. If he ultimately hits .240, shows plate discipline, and hits for power, the Sox probably have a 4-5 WAR catcher, because I imagine by the time he's in the majors, FanGraphs will have incorporated pitch framing into their catcher algorithm.

[FT35]

Quick story on Tyler. My son and I flew from NC to Chicago and saw two games 2 years ago. Tyler caught both and after an extra inning game where Avi hit a double to win it against the Angels we waited outside by the parking lot.

My son was 10 and he wanted to see every player he could and try to get a ball signed. We were there til around almost 1AM and as Tyler was driving out of the parking lot he saw my son and another boy waiting there behind the barrier. He beeped his car horn and told them to meet him at the end of the barriers. They did and he opened his car door and signed stuff for the boys. He made their day. And he did this after catching about 11 innings.

Adam Laroche also stopped and was very nice, Danks had pitched well that night and he was with his dad and he signed. Most guys walked by or drove on by the kids.

 

Another cool story from the night before was when my son had his "Alexei Rameriz is my pick to click" sign and he was holding it up and Alexei drove out in his Ferrari or Lamborghini. It was a sweet ride. He saw the sign, stopped and rolled down the window, pointed and had the attendant bring my son's ball over to him to sign. It was a cool gesture, made my son's trip.

 

This is awesome! I love stuff like this! It's why we cheer for guys--even when they are in slumps. What a refreshing moment--glad you got to experience that!