Q traded to Cubs/Jimenez, Cease ++ to Sox

[fathom]

So what are the available alternatives to the fifth best prospect in baseball?

 

BA podcast said some scouts think Eloy might be 70 hit/70 power....that's rare

[southsider2k5]

Hahn grew up a Cubs fan. The Quintana trade gets the Cubs into the 2017 Playoffs. I figure after a couple of years of 100 losses the White Sox will show Hahn the door. He will then be hired by Epstein working for the cubs.

 

I always found tin foil hats itchy.

[Kalapse]

I was looking up Jeff Liefers stats the other day to compare to Davidson. Dude had a GREAT year in 2002 I think.

2002 was sad, 2001 though, is a very good comp to Davidson. Nice pull.

[Real]

Well, when your boss and your boss's boss insist that you go for it, when you yourself are intent on rebuilding instead of putting off the inevitable, can you really fault Hahn for that? It was said that Hahn wanted to make a significant sell-off at the deadline in 2015, when the Sox could have actually kept guys like Eaton and Sale and been positioned to make a run heading into next year, but Williams asked him not to.

 

Frankly, the fact that Hahn put a team together the past couple of seasons that had us squinting and seeing a team that could win a lot of games had many of us excited, given what he had to work with in the minors.

 

Rick Hahn knows what he's doing and is a very good GM. He is probably second to none when it comes to overall negotiation.

 

That's all speculation, they're all responsible. I don't wanna hear about how Hahn is exempt from the team being hot trash for as long as they have.

 

The odds of the Sox ever seeing another talent like Sale coming through their system is extremely small

 

yeah i'm salty af, but our front office is garbage until they prove otherwise. congratulations, you've traded for other teams prospects

 

wake me up in 2 years when the big league club is something besides trash

[aryzner]

I both love and hate a trade like this.

 

Oh, I love it for the Sox.

 

I hate it because I know a few people who were high as hell on Eloy after his The Natural moonshot a few weeks ago, and now they're all, "Oh I was always worried about his bat anyway."

 

Happens with every trade, but it is annoying to hear it.

[iamshack]

I think Honel could have been good, he just got injured.

I thought Honel was an overdraft...

 

Maybe it's just because I know he was a huge dick at Providence.

[Eminor3rd]

I spoke with several Sox and Cub fans around town today and to a man, every cub fan liked the trade and every so fan was madder than he11.

Why make a trade that helps the cubs...in any way shape of form?

Hahn had other alternatives.

 

Because the Cubs have almost nothing to do with the White Sox chances to win a title.

[Bananarchy]

I spoke with several Sox and Cub fans around town today and to a man, every cub fan liked the trade and every so fan was madder than he11.

Why make a trade that helps the cubs...in any way shape of form?

Hahn had other alternatives.

Welcome to 2017. We don't care about the Cubs. Stop living in the past. Every White Sox move is about one thing: the White Sox.

[greg775]

He is prone to long, painful slumps.

Almost every big leaguer is prone to slumps. That's why so few hit over .310, even .300 is pretty good now. I think Abreu is a good, professional hitter. He's had, what, 3 straight good seasons? I think you were talking about Abreu. If it was Avi, well, I guess wait and see where he finishes this season. Isn't this season like a tryout for him? Avi has a whole second half to show if he's a .310-320 hitter or will he dip to .260ish again?

 

I do not think teams will be willing to offer that much for him. What teams, amongst the contenders, are going to find Abreu's bat so significant an upgrade over other available pieces that they would go above and beyond that to acquire him? If you're just going to DH him, why not just trade a top 250 prospect and get Melky Cabrera instead?

Is there really any real need to trade Abreu? What would that trade really accomplish? If we are going to be a contender in 3 seasons he ought to be able to help us if he stays healthy. It's not going to take more than 2-3 seasons is it?

 

I'd like to see Adolfo in RF. Avi will be traded as soon as it makes sense, like Rodon- in my humble opinion.

Why would the Sox trade Rodon? He projects to be only 26 or 27 when we are a contender again. He has electric stuff once in a while and from the eye test doesn't have any funky delivery that would cause injury, etc.

[turnin' two]

The Yankees still have Greg Bird long-term, so they have no use for an Abreu investment. Logan Morrison and Yuliesky Gurriel have been pretty damn good this season. Neither Seattle nor Texas should be hard buyers, and the Angels don't have enough to acquire him. The Dodgers have some guy named Cody Bellinger who they can play at 1B.

 

Unless the Red Sox are giving up Devers for Abreu - hint: they aren't - then there is no point in dealing Abreu.

 

 

Yeah, Greg Bird is a complete unknown. LoMo has always been bad, yeah he is hitting for power this year, but at a .250 clip. Yuli has been good, but not to the level of Abreu. Seattle, Texas and Anaheim could all use him, and the Dodgers have Bellinger, yes, and they mostly play him in the OF. They have Adrian at 1B, who is more than serviceable, but Abreu would definitely be an upgrade.

 

I wasn't advocating trading him. I think they should keep him, but to say that there are no contenders that need a 1B seems just incorrect to me.

[hi8is]

I always found tin foil hats itchy.

+1 ( potential for distracting from baseball discussion

[hi8is]

That's all speculation, they're all responsible. I don't wanna hear about how Hahn is exempt from the team being hot trash for as long as they have.

 

The odds of the Sox ever seeing another talent like Sale coming through their system is extremely small

 

yeah i'm salty af, but our front office is garbage until they prove otherwise. congratulations, you've traded for other teams prospects

 

wake me up in 2 years when the big league club is something besides trash

To correct you, ummmm... good Sir.... I don't believe any soxtalk posters have made any trades. I'd say, "enjoy your seething" but that anger certainly doesn't look comfortable.

 

Owie.

[soxforlife05]

Not enough for gift wrapping the Cubs another World Series. Would have liked to see another top prospect rather than 3 fillers. Quality over quantity. Disappointed with the return. Would have rather kept Q until we saw what we have with the newest additions at the big league level before accepting this kind of return.

 

I'm much more disappointed with this one than the returns for Sale or Eaton. Was thrilled with the Eaton return and mildly disappointed we couldn't pull Devers for Sale but thought his deal was just ok. Especially if you are giving him to the Cubs you've got to get a better deal than this.

Edited July 14, 2017 by soxforlife05

[hi8is]

Not enough for gift wrapping the Cubs another World Series. Would have liked to see another top prospect rather than 3 fillers. Quality over quantity. Disappointed with the return. Would have rather kept Q until we saw what we have with the newest additions at the big league level before accepting this kind of return.

 

More disappointed with this one than the returns for Sale or Eaton. Especially if you are giving him to the Cubs you've got to get a better deal than this.

A top 50 - 65 league wide prospect with the potential to be a top of the rotation SP is "filler"?

[soxforlife05]

A top 50 - 65 league wide prospect with the potential to be a top of the rotation SP is "filler"?

 

Potential. The key word there. And that guy is a single A pitcher you're talking about. For an ace caliber starter on one of the best deals in baseball for years to come. Don't like the deal.

 

For the record - I hated the Shields deal with a passion, was ok with/mildly disappointed with no Devers inclusion in Sale deal, loved the Eaton deal, disappointed with this one.

 

Cease already had Tommy John too. Holy s*** I like this deal less and less. Cubs robbed us I can't believe it.

Edited July 14, 2017 by soxforlife05

[hi8is]

Potential. The key word there. And that guy is a single A pitcher you're talking about. For an ace caliber starter on one of the best deals in baseball for years to come. Don't like the deal.

 

For the record - I hated the Shields deal with a passion, was ok with/mildly disappointed with no Devers inclusion in Sale deal, loved the Eaton deal, disappointed with this one.

 

Cease already had Tommy John too. Holy s*** I like this deal less and less. Cubs robbed us I can't believe it.

I'm with you 1000% on hating the Shields move... I was one of the most vocal about it. We just don't see eye to eye on this deal.

 

Two fingers.

[soxforlife05]

I'm with you 1000% on hating the Shields move... I was one of the most vocal about it. We just don't see eye to eye on this deal.

 

Two fingers.

 

Jimenez a good starting point just don't like the rest of the deal. If he isn't a big time player this deal is an epic fail imo. It's underwhelming even in comparison to the Sale deal where I don't think we got as much as we should have. With Sale I would have tried to sweeten the deal with something like Sale + Jones for Moncada, Devers, Kopech. Quality over quantity. Jones was expendable and was an attractive add for a contender in the offseason. Point being by himself he's not going to bring a Devers back so if that puts us over the top why not just do it? Not many opportunities to add prospects like that.

 

I don't trust our evaluation of middle/lower tier prospects yet. Not enough of a track record for me to trust they can pick diamonds in the rough like the best organizations can. They have been too bad at that for too long. They can let their results do the talking. To their credit - Quintana and possibly Delmonico could qualify. We will see.

Edited July 14, 2017 by soxforlife05

[hi8is]

Jimenez a good starting point just don't like the rest of the deal. If he isn't a big time player this deal is an epic fail imo. It's underwhelming even in comparison to the Sale deal where I don't think we got as much as we should have. With Sale I would have tried to sweeten the deal with something like Sale + Jones for Moncada, Devers, Kopech. Quality over quantity. Jones was expendable and was an attractive add for a contender in the offseason. Point being by himself he's not going to bring a Devers back so if that puts us over the top why not just do it? Not many opportunities to add prospects like that.

 

I don't trust our evaluation of middle/lower tier prospects yet. Not enough of a track record for me to trust they can pick diamonds in the rough like the best organizations can. They have been too bad at that for too long. They can let their results do the talking.

Yea man - I get the whole Devers thing but from what I've read the Red Sox weren't trading him for anything, he was reportedly off the table. Also... all prospects are "wait and see" - it's just a probability proposition. We're going to be playing a lot of "wait and see" game soon over the next couple years at least, on a lot of fronts.

 

Put two fingers up, look at your hand, and call it a night.

[iamshack]

Ya, the consensus on this one is definitely that the Sox won it. Much like the Eaton deal, I love it from the Sox perspective but the team trading for our guy is getting a severely underrated player and asset on the national level.

I actually wish Hahn would not say things like "This was by far the best offer we had."

 

I'm struggling to understand the purpose of that.

 

It would seem there is no need to embarass the Cubs that way, and secondly, no need to show other GMs that the market for prospects is as weak as it apparently is.

[Chicago White Sox]

I actually wish Hahn would not say things like "This was by far the best offer we had."

 

I'm struggling to understand the purpose of that.

 

It would seem there is no need to embarass the Cubs that way, and secondly, no need to show other GMs that the market for prospects is as weak as it apparently is.

Yeah I too thought it was a strange comment, although I'm guessing he made it catering to the meatball fans who wouldn't like us dealing with the Cubs.

[iamshack]

Yeah I too thought it was a strange comment, although I'm guessing he made it catering to the meatball fans who wouldn't like us dealing with the Cubs.

You are probably correct. And that is a shame.

[FT35]

I actually wish Hahn would not say things like "This was by far the best offer we had."

 

I'm struggling to understand the purpose of that.

 

It would seem there is no need to embarass the Cubs that way, and secondly, no need to show other GMs that the market for prospects is as weak as it apparently is.

 

I think he was just reiterating the fact that they were able to land someone who they were really high on. I think the comment was less a slam on the Cubs and more of an appreciation of the talent they got back. They set the market with this deal...they didn't get more or less than market value what Q was worth--they set the market value. All other MLB deals will be using this as a measuring stick when it comes to value.

Edited July 14, 2017 by FT35

[FT35]

I think he was just reiterating the fact that they were able to land someone who they were really high on. I think the comment was less a slam on the Cubs and more of an appreciation on the talent they got back. They set the market with this deal...they didn't get more or less than market value what Q was worth--they set the market value. All other MLB deals will be using this as a measuring stick when it comes to value.

 

In essence--the other teams didn't offer that much and that's why we held Q as long as we did. They didn't meet the market price so they didn't complete the trade--he's not on their teams. Cubs met the price and that's why the trigger was pulled.

Edited July 14, 2017 by FT35

[southsider2k5]

Potential. The key word there. And that guy is a single A pitcher you're talking about. For an ace caliber starter on one of the best deals in baseball for years to come. Don't like the deal.

 

For the record - I hated the Shields deal with a passion, was ok with/mildly disappointed with no Devers inclusion in Sale deal, loved the Eaton deal, disappointed with this one.

 

Cease already had Tommy John too. Holy s*** I like this deal less and less. Cubs robbed us I can't believe it.

 

For the record, Dylan Cease is an Ace Calibur Starter.

[southsider2k5]

Yeah I too thought it was a strange comment, although I'm guessing he made it catering to the meatball fans who wouldn't like us dealing with the Cubs.

 

Bingo. I referred to a "Cubs Tax" that they would have to pay because of the risk of making them better pissing off a segment of White Sox fans who like to be pissed off about most anything. This is paying a toll at their bridge.