Q traded to Cubs/Jimenez, Cease ++ to Sox

[hi8is]

This is also fantastic

https://twitter.com/sc_phalen27/status/885615491208925184

[Quin]

This is also fantastic

https://twitter.com/sc_phalen27/status/885615491208925184

 

Perfect

[Bigsoxhurt35]

Anyone thinking Hahn could've done better by not trading with the CHC is just flat out wrong. If so, this deal wouldn't have taken 8 months. This is a fantastic return.

[Kyyle23]

There is no way that I would have helped the cubs chances of reaching the world series again. Hahn felt differently but as a cub fan growing up in Wilmette, he does not share the animosity that most south side sox fans have for the cubs.

Bob Nightengale's Tweets appeared to confirm that Milwaukee was trying hard to get Quintana.

https://twitter.com/BNightengale/status/885883624641355778

So Epstein was concerned that Hahn would trade Q to the Brewers. Perhaps Hahn should have asked for more from Epstein or went back to the Brewers and given them the last opportunity to trade for him, or maybe held on to Q at least until the end of the trade deadline.

I would never deal with Epstein or the cubs, ever.

 

How much sauce do you need for this meatball? Get over yourself, this "waaaah Hahn was a Cubs fan growing up" narrative you have created is pathetic. Hahn makes the best deals for the team that employs him, he doesn't look for ways to help the Cubs. This deal has been roundly praised around the league and has shot the sox farm system to the top and you are butthurt because it helps the cubs. gmafb

[zisk]

It's tricky when you are trading stars (or guys just below the 'star' rung on the ladder) like Q and what you are looking for are young prospects not guys who are close to the bigs or ready for the bigs. Considering the plan is to acquire prospects, not guys ready for prime time, I don't understand your angst about the deal. We got the No. 1 and 2 prospects (I realize rankings mean squat but still they are 1 and 2) from a team that is known for its prospects. So really I don't see the problem if we accept our current situation (only wanting prospects). This Eloy guy on paper is the real deal. And Cease is a legitimate pitching prospect. Frankly I'd rather get the outfield situation addressed for the future and that has happened with Robert, Eloy and Avi (or another of the prospects we have).

I have a gut feeling our defense will forevermore be a problem, but we'll see. I'm surprised you are so down on the Eloy/Cease return for a pitcher who frankly is good to very good, definitely not lockdown great.

 

Before people think I'm softening, I'm still in theory against this type of rebuild. But as a Sox fan I finally came to accept it after the one poster said I was ruining the board and after accepting it, I can accept that this trade IN THEORY makes sense. I'd rather get a stud outfielder right now than the stud Braves shortstop. Anderson still has time to be a star. We'll know by the end of next season probably whether he's Jeter-like or just another Luis Alvarado.

 

I did read Epstein said the Cubs have a five-year window where they want to win as many WS as possible. Q is so likeable it would be less painful to watch the postseason with him pitching. And if Epstein is true, perhaps the Sox will take over in 5 years when the Cubs are about done and Chicago could account for eight of the next 10 WS titles between the Sox and Cubs. (Not that I want the Cubs to win).

Luis Alvarado? Hey Greg775, You're showing your age with that comment.

 

What do you think Bee Bee Richards is doing right now? LOL

[witesoxfan]

There is no way that I would have helped the cubs chances of reaching the world series again. Hahn felt differently but as a cub fan growing up in Wilmette, he does not share the animosity that most south side sox fans have for the cubs.

Bob Nightengale's Tweets appeared to confirm that Milwaukee was trying hard to get Quintana.

https://twitter.com/BNightengale/status/885883624641355778

So Epstein was concerned that Hahn would trade Q to the Brewers. Perhaps Hahn should have asked for more from Epstein or went back to the Brewers and given them the last opportunity to trade for him, or maybe held on to Q at least until the end of the trade deadline.

I would never deal with Epstein or the cubs, ever.

 

There is no way that the White Sox were ever going to get a better offer than this for Quintana. It is literally a step below the package that Sale returned. Milwaukee could have topped this deal, but it would have been to the point where they'd be sacrificing their system, and they aren't at that phase in their rebuild.

 

It's probably safe to take the tin foil hat off.

[bmags]

There is no way that the White Sox were ever going to get a better offer than this for Quintana. It is literally a step below the package that Sale returned. Milwaukee could have topped this deal, but it would have been to the point where they'd be sacrificing their system, and they aren't at that phase in their rebuild.

 

It's probably safe to take the tin foil hat off.

 

I didn't think we'd get a top 10 prospect for Q and I f we did I didn't expect to follow it up with a top 80 pitcher.

[tray]

Many Sox fans were and are against assisting the Ricketts clan, Epstein and the Cubs to another World Series. That's just a fact. If you disagree fine, but don't pretend that this rivalry does not exist, or that most Chicago fans are not fully aware of it and invested in it to some degree.

 

Second, Hahn stated that it was the best deal available. Of course he is going to say that after he makes the trade. We don't know what the Brewers offered, how those players would eventually pan out, what other teams may have offered at the end of the traded deadline, or during the off-season. Why didn't Hahn just trade Q for the best available before the season started, like some wanted him to do? Why now? Because Epstein got desperate after Lester had a meltdown and the Cub fan base started stirring?

 

Q's trade value was not going to go down immediately and it may have even increased in the next several weeks. Hahn sold out...to the cubs. If Quintana ends up helping the cubs to a world series, go ahead and enjoy watching with your Cubs Quintana jersey on.

 

Is this petty? Yes, absolutely...but sports fandom is by definition fanatical and frequently quite petty. You wear hats with team logos and swear your allegiance. You root for the team and you disparage opponents. It is what it is. Don't try to pretend you are a sports fan but at the same time you are above it all.

Edited July 15, 2017 by miracleon35th

[BlackSox13]

Not one Sox fan likes the idea of helping the cubs, just like no cub fans liked helping the Sox but in the end both teams got the best of what's available and what they needed. There's no reason to think Hahn had a better offer.

 

Then again, maybe we should have settled for Glasgow/Newman/+ ?

 

The Sox were after a top OF prospect to headline a return for Q and got him, I'm happy with this deal.

 

Sox love 1St, cub hatred 2ND.

[chitownsportsfan]

The cubs won a WS last year, what's the worst thing that happens they win another? f*** that, help the Sox, if it helps the Cubs that's fine we need to help ourselves anyway possible.

[Quin]

Yeah, really don't care about the Cubs winning the World Series. It happened and isn't special anymore.

 

Now, if Q pitches like he does and somehow turns in a HOF career and gets his number retired on the North Side, I'll be a bit bitter (but still very happy for Q). If Eloy turns in a HOF career on the South Side and Cease is an All-Star, I won't care at all.

 

My ideal world still sees us bringing back Q in the Lester role in 3 years, the savvy vet to lead a young team to playoff glory.

[Quin]

And if Quintana pitches in the World Series, I will wear a White Sox Jose Quintana #62 black jersey and pull for him every pitch.

 

He's one of the bright spots of being a fan the past few years and was the perfect successor to team leaders like Buehrle and Konerko. As fun and talented as Eaton and Sale were, they were embarrassing sometimes as team leaders.

[bmags]

Yeah, really don't care about the Cubs winning the World Series. It happened and isn't special anymore.

 

Now, if Q pitches like he does and somehow turns in a HOF career and gets his number retired on the North Side, I'll be a bit bitter (but still very happy for Q). If Eloy turns in a HOF career on the South Side and Cease is an All-Star, I won't care at all.

 

My ideal world still sees us bringing back Q in the Lester role in 3 years, the savvy vet to lead a young team to playoff glory.

 

I could totally see Q being the next Bartolo colon

[witesoxfan]

Many Sox fans were and are against assisting the Ricketts clan, Epstein and the Cubs to another World Series. That's just a fact. If you disagree fine, but don't pretend that this rivalry does not exist, or that most Chicago fans are not fully aware of it and invested in it to some degree.

 

Second, Hahn stated that it was the best deal available. Of course he is going to say that after he makes the trade. We don't know what the Brewers offered, how those players would eventually pan out, what other teams may have offered at the end of the traded deadline, or during the off-season. Why didn't Hahn just trade Q for the best available before the season started, like some wanted him to do? Why now? Because Epstein got desperate after Lester had a meltdown and the Cub fan base started stirring?

 

Q's trade value was not going to go down immediately and it may have even increased in the next several weeks. Hahn sold out...to the cubs. If Quintana ends up helping the cubs to a world series, go ahead and enjoy watching with your Cubs Quintana jersey on.

 

Is this petty? Yes, absolutely...but sports fandom is by definition fanatical and frequently quite petty. You wear hats with team logos and swear your allegiance. You root for the team and you disparage opponents. It is what it is. Don't try to pretend you are a sports fan but at the same time you are above it all.

 

This is lunacy. There are publications that prefer Jimenez to Moncada at this point, and Cease's ceiling is honestly probably similar to Kopech's. The only difference is that the extra two they got from Boston have legitimate upside - Basabe as an incredibly athletic outfielder and Diaz as a late inning reliever, while Rose and Flete are probably bench pieces, if anything.

 

If you really think that Hahn took a lesser package than the one he received from the Cubs to help the Cubs is among the most ridiculous conspiracy theories I've ever heard. Using the theory of Occam's razor, we should probably just assume that Hahn said that he took the best offer available because he took the best offer available. This trade is just as likely to leave the Cubs upset in the future when Eloy is blasting 40 homers a year for the Sox.

[tray]

If you really think that Hahn took a lesser package than the one he received from the Cubs to help the Cubs is among the most ridiculous conspiracy theories I've ever heard.

 

I didn't say that or think that. Hahn could have waited for another trade opportunity. This wasn't the first offer for Q and it would not have been the last. Who was more desperate to make this trade, Epstein or Hahn?

 

There are reasons why the Sox and Cubs seldom make trades. Depending on how this one works out for both teams and both fan bases, this might be the last one for a long, long time.

 

 

 

[witesoxfan]

I didn't say that or think that. Hahn could have waited for another trade opportunity. This wasn't the first offer for Q and it would not have been the last. Who was more desperate to make this trade, Epstein or Hahn?

 

There are reasons why the Sox and Cubs seldom make trades. Depending on how this one works out for both teams and both fan bases, this might be the last one for a long, long time.

 

If we found out later that the Cubs had offered Jimenez and Cease for Quintana and Hahn turned it down, Soxtalk would have burned to the ground. I haven't seen a trade that made so much sense for both sides since December, when the White Sox traded Chris Sale to Boston.

[StrangeSox]

I didn't think we'd get a top 10 prospect for Q and I f we did I didn't expect to follow it up with a top 80 pitcher.

Especially after his early season struggles. Really excited for White Sox baseball in the coming years.

[bmags]

If we found out later that the Cubs had offered Jimenez and Cease for Quintana and Hahn turned it down, Soxtalk would have burned to the ground. I haven't seen a trade that made so much sense for both sides since December, when the White Sox traded Chris Sale to Boston.

 

Yes that would have been me.

[Quin]

Astros looking into Samardzjia.

 

Ahahahaha

[justBLAZE]

Astros looking into Samardzjia.

 

Ahahahaha

 

He's having a decent year, actually thought Cubs will get him, previous ties and all.

[Jose Abreu]

He's having a decent year, actually thought Cubs will get him, previous ties and all.

His stats are so odd. Leads league in K:BB ratio along with having the lowest BB/9, yet he's still not pitching too well overall.

[soxforlife05]

I don't like playing the prospect game but since the Sox are doing so, you probably are over-criticizing the deal. The rating game can be stupid but Eloy is the No. 5 player in baseball and films of him are promising as he hits some bombs. At 6-4 he looks the part of slugger. Cease is the Cubs' No. 1 pitching prospect. If you want to go the prospect route, you probably can't argue with this one on paper. Eloy in theory could be playing for the Sox a long time, at least til he hits the big payday in free agency. Also don't forget if you throw out the recent dominance of Q, he's been hit a bit this season. I expect him to be great for the Cubs the rest of the year and I think he will wake them up, but you don't know. I'm wait and see on the prospect game, but on paper you get a great hitting prospect in Eloy and a team's No. 1 pitching prospect. Most of the fans on here are committed to a rebuild, not sure if you are or not, but if you want a rebuild, I don't think you could probably ask for more. That third prospect the Sox got has 14 home runs this year. Not bad for a throw in.

 

 

Unfortunately it's wait and see. Sox aren't interested in acquiring major league ready guys right now. So it's add two more (on paper) blue chip prospects and see what happens. I love Q but it's possible you are over-valuing him as well. When he was having all those mediocre starts earlier in the season and the high ERA, he didn't exactly look overwhelmingly good. Sox have several players now projected to take over certain positions in the next few years. I can see why you hate the deal but there's no way to positively grade it right now. On paper, the Sox 3 major trades all brought future stars to the team.

 

How is it possible to overvalue a front of the rotation starter on the best non pre-arb deal in baseball? Left handed, no serious injury history, late bloomer/less mileage on the arm, good teammate? That is a priceless asset. Did Buehrle look dominant all the time throughout his career? Nope.

 

LF is the easiest position to fill on the entire lineup. He doesn't play a premium position. If he's not a Stanton like player its a fail. FWIW Stanton was putting up 30-40 HR/yr seasons in A ball. He's also very far away from the majors. A ball teams don't even do scouting reports. I don't hate getting Jimenez but he's far from proven. Doesn't look like a dominant player to me yet. Needs to add some size and strength and then we can talk about 40 HR.

 

Cease had TJS. You don't want pitchers with an injury history headlining these deals and he's another low minors guy to boot. We already have another TJS starter in Giolito but at least we got ML ready arm in Lopez and a good low minors arm in Dunning. I'd argue we got more for Eaton.

Edited July 16, 2017 by soxforlife05

[SkokieSox]

How is it possible to overvalue a front of the rotation starter on the best non pre-arb deal in baseball? Left handed, no serious injury history, late bloomer/less mileage on the arm, good teammate? That is a priceless asset. Did Buehrle look dominant all the time throughout his career? Nope.

 

LF is the easiest position to fill on the entire lineup. He doesn't play a premium position. If he's not a Stanton like player its a fail. FWIW Stanton was putting up 30-40 HR/yr seasons in A ball. He's also very far away from the majors. A ball teams don't even do scouting reports. I don't hate getting Jimenez but he's far from proven. Doesn't look like a dominant player to me yet. Needs to add some size and strength and then we can talk about 40 HR.

 

Cease had TJS. You don't want pitchers with an injury history headlining these deals and he's another low minors guy to boot. We already have another TJS starter in Giolito but at least we got ML ready arm in Lopez and a good low minors arm in Dunning. I'd argue we got more for Eaton.

 

Velocity isn't down from his TJS, in some respect it's a bonus that it's out of the way with little ill effects. Jimenez has a mature swing as well that appears natural, based on his previous manager's comments. Not sure you can just teach that.

[mmmmmbeeer]

With all these injuries happening and an apparent bidding war heating up for Gray, am I the only one who is kind of wishing Gray was traded before Q? I'm very happy with the Jiminez/Cease, but maybe I'm getting spoiled and just want more.

[greg775]

How is it possible to overvalue a front of the rotation starter on the best non pre-arb deal in baseball? Left handed, no serious injury history, late bloomer/less mileage on the arm, good teammate? That is a priceless asset. Did Buehrle look dominant all the time throughout his career? Nope.

 

LF is the easiest position to fill on the entire lineup. He doesn't play a premium position. If he's not a Stanton like player its a fail. FWIW Stanton was putting up 30-40 HR/yr seasons in A ball. He's also very far away from the majors. A ball teams don't even do scouting reports. I don't hate getting Jimenez but he's far from proven. Doesn't look like a dominant player to me yet. Needs to add some size and strength and then we can talk about 40 HR.

 

Cease had TJS. You don't want pitchers with an injury history headlining these deals and he's another low minors guy to boot. We already have another TJS starter in Giolito but at least we got ML ready arm in Lopez and a good low minors arm in Dunning. I'd argue we got more for Eaton.

It's probably a bad sign that I liked this deal way more than the Sale and Eaton deals. Cause I can be WRONG a lot. Just ask my wallet on the few excursions I make to Vegas. The reason I liked it is I do undervalue Q a bit. He was rather horses*** the first eight weeks of the season. I know we made excuses on here for him, errors, etc., some balls fell in, ducksnorts or whatever. But until he turned into the old Q with the 10 Ks and I think he was dominant one other recent game, Q was looking like just an OK pitcher. Remember the speculation that teams weren't at all convinced he was even a contender to be staff ace. Don't get me wrong. I do like Q, but ...

Anyhow, I watched tape on Eloy and I liked the eye test (my eye test love has been wrong before). And even though prospect ratings are kinda bogus, I can fall for them as well and if Cease is the Cubs' No. 2 prospect behind Eloy, that's a team's 1-2 prospects for a very good, but not great pitcher.

Anyhow, this is all wait and see. I will never change my opinion on prospects. They bust a lot. Just look at the list of Sox prospects that have busted that somebody put on one of these threads.

 

I really don't know what you wanted to get for Q. Now if you wanted to simply keep him, I can accept that. But from everything we were reading, teams weren't lining up to give a ton of great prospects for Q.