Q traded to Cubs/Jimenez, Cease ++ to Sox

[southsider2k5]

There was doubt we were going to get Brinson from insiders with extremely close sources.

 

The following prospects would have beat out Jimenez going by MLB Pipeline.

 

- Moncada

- Torres (Yankees weren't parting with)

- Rosario (Mets weren't buying)

- Crawford (Phillies aren't buying)

- Robles (Nats weren't in it for Q)

- Meadows (Pirates weren't gonna give him up)

- Albies - this is the only one that there was smoke to and while you always go for talent when it's as close as Albies/Jimenez, we had a much stronger need for a power hitting OF.

 

And it wasn't just the top guy was awesome. It was a top 10 guy, plus another top of the rotation potential arm who was rated in the top 75. No one was offering that

[GreenSox]

- Albies - this is the only one that there was smoke to and while you always go for talent when it's as close as Albies/Jimenez, we had a much stronger need for a power hitting OF.

But Albies would defy the "far and away" claim.

To me it would, anyway. To Williams and Hahn it may not. Which is the other aspect of this - evaluation is subjective.

[southsider2k5]

But Albies would defy the "far and away" claim.

To me it would, anyway. To Williams and Hahn it may not. Which is the other aspect of this - evaluation is subjective.

 

It isn't JUST Albies though. That isn't good enough. it would have had to have been Albies PLUS Acuna to match or beat the Cubs deal. Or it would have needed to be Albies + Maitan + another good prospect + at least a mediocre prospect.

 

That has NOT been reported. Just Albies plus others.

[Dam8610]

There was doubt we were going to get Brinson from insiders with extremely close sources.

 

The following prospects would have beat out Jimenez going by MLB Pipeline.

 

- Moncada

- Torres (Yankees weren't parting with)

- Rosario (Mets weren't buying)

- Crawford (Phillies aren't buying)

- Robles (Nats weren't in it for Q)

- Meadows (Pirates weren't gonna give him up)

- Albies - this is the only one that there was smoke to and while you always go for talent when it's as close as Albies/Jimenez, we had a much stronger need for a power hitting OF.

 

That's one player, not an offer. An offer is the entire package. For example, the Braves could've put together something like Albies, Allard/Soroka, two non-irrelevant pieces, and that would've far surpassed what was acquired for Q. Another team could've put together a package that may not have been as topheavy, but actually gave the White Sox four players with a decent-strong possibility of contributing in MLB someday instead of two. I'd really like to know what else was on the table.

[Wanne]

But Albies would defy the "far and away" claim.

To me it would, anyway. To Williams and Hahn it may not. Which is the other aspect of this - evaluation is subjective.

 

that's splitting hairs...and yes..subjective. But all the pieces combined...moreso Jimenez and Cease is what makes this deal the best. Would Atlanta have touched that? And personally...I take Jimenez over Albies 10 out of 10 times. Quite frankly...this entire argument is idiotic...

 

 

[southsider2k5]

That's one player, not an offer. An offer is the entire package. For example, the Braves could've put together something like Albies, Allard/Soroka, two non-irrelevant pieces, and that would've far surpassed what was acquired for Q. Another team could've put together a package that may not have been as topheavy, but actually gave the White Sox four players with a decent-strong possibility of contributing in MLB someday instead of two. I'd really like to know what else was on the table.

 

There is absolutely nothing stating that was an offer.

[Dam8610]

There is absolutely nothing stating that was an offer.

 

There may not be, nor was I stating there was, I'd just like some basis behind the "far and away" claim.

[maggsmaggs]

That's one player, not an offer. An offer is the entire package. For example, the Braves could've put together something like Albies, Allard/Soroka, two non-irrelevant pieces, and that would've far surpassed what was acquired for Q. Another team could've put together a package that may not have been as topheavy, but actually gave the White Sox four players with a decent-strong possibility of contributing in MLB someday instead of two. I'd really like to know what else was on the table.

 

I can guarantee that whatever else was on the table, as a whole, was not as good as the Cubs offer. How do I know? Because the Sox chose the Cubs offer.

[Dam8610]

I can guarantee that whatever else was on the table, as a whole, was not as good as the Cubs offer. How do I know? Because the Sox chose the Cubs offer.

 

That's a good point, but my question relates more to the margin between this offer and others. I'd really hate Q giving the Cubs a whole lot more market share over the next three years because of Bryant Flete, who will probably never make it to MLB, for example.

[chitownsportsfan]

That's a good point, but my question relates more to the margin between this offer and others. I'd really hate Q giving the Cubs a whole lot more market share over the next three years because of Bryant Flete, who will probably never make it to MLB, for example.

 

You can choose to believe him if you want (and I see no reason not to) but Hahn said point blank "it was by far the best offer". I'm guessing that means that probably nobody else was offering two top 100 guys, and that nobody else was including a top #5ish stud like Eloy if they were.

[Balta1701]

You can choose to believe him if you want (and I see no reason not to) but Hahn said point blank "it was by far the best offer". I'm guessing that means that probably nobody else was offering two top 100 guys, and that nobody else was including a top #5ish stud like Eloy if they were.

The only team that showed interest that could possibly have made a comparable offer is the Braves with Albies. There's been back and forth about whether or not he was actually ever put on the table.

[Chicago White Sox]

You can choose to believe him if you want (and I see no reason not to) but Hahn said point blank "it was by far the best offer". I'm guessing that means that probably nobody else was offering two top 100 guys, and that nobody else was including a top #5ish stud like Eloy if they were.

I'm sure multiple teams offered two top 100 guys. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if a team even offered three of them.

 

But let's not compare a top 5 to 10 guy like Jimenez to any old top 100 prospect. Those few elite prospects are worth an absolute ton because they provide a very rare mix of ceiling & floor. And honestly, Jimenez is probably the only blue chipper we were offered for Quintana. I think Albies is a fantastic prospect, but he's a tier below Eloy.

 

So the question we all have to ask ourselves is would you have one elite guy plus one guy in the 75 to 100 range or something like two guys in the 30 to 50 range or possibly three guys in the 50 to 100 range. To me the answer is simple: the package headlined by the blue chipper is always the way to go.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Chicago White Sox

[LittleHurt05]

The Cubs and Sox aren't rivals.

 

Of course they are rivals, how is that even a debate? It's different than the Yankees/Boston or Cubs /Cards, but there is zero question that there is a rivalry. It may be solely created by the fans, but that's how sports work.

[caulfield12]

The Braves have been sniffing around Q since this past offseason.

Would the White Sox have been better off with Acuna/Maitan/Albies? Maybe, but the Braves weren't going to give up that type of package, regardless.

 

Maitan's so far away, and the bust rate so much higher (compared to Robert/Moncada/Jimenez), well...it would have been a much riskier proposition for Hahn's GM longevity.

 

With Albies, he feels a BIT superfluous unless we start missing with Anderson, Moncada, etc. Even then, Yolmer or Leury could do a fairly decent impression, although obviously lacking that type of upside. Kind of like another version of Baez, with less power and more speed.

 

If the Braves wanted to throw a bunch of pitching prospects at us, that probably wouldn't end up working in our favor because ATL usually is such an excellent evaluation of their own talent, which ones to hold onto and which ones are expendable and at peak value in the minors.

 

 

[caulfield12]

They don't play in the same league, they don't share the same fans. They play six times a year, and VERY rarely are both teams good during the same season. The Cubs seasons have no bearing on the White Sox (not withstanding this latest trade )

 

When the Sox are actually competitive, I give the Cubs very little thought aside from the six times the Sox play them. I can't say that about the Twins, Indians, Tigers, etc.

 

4 times now?

[GreenSox]

It isn't JUST Albies though. That isn't good enough. it would have had to have been Albies PLUS Acuna to match or beat the Cubs deal. Or it would have needed to be Albies + Maitan + another good prospect + at least a mediocre prospect.

 

That has NOT been reported. Just Albies plus others.

Albiese plus Acuna would have made the Braves offer far and away better than the Cubs

Ablies plus a bottom top 100 guy puts the Braves offer in the same ball park, such that it isn't "far and away" better.

Edited July 17, 2017 by GreenSox

[Dam8610]

Albiese plus Acuna would have made the Braves offer far and away better than the Cubs

Ablies plus a bottom top 100 guy puts the Braves offer in the same ball park, such that it isn't "far and away" better.

 

I doubt Albies + Acuna was on the table, because I'd take those two alone over the Cubs trade.

[iamshack]

I doubt Albies + Acuna was on the table, because I'd take those two alone over the Cubs trade.

I think it would have been more like Albies and one of their top arms.

 

Acuna would have been the one piece I would have considered ahead of Jimenez.

[Chicago White Sox]

They don't play in the same league, they don't share the same fans. They play six times a year, and VERY rarely are both teams good during the same season. The Cubs seasons have no bearing on the White Sox (not withstanding this latest trade )

 

When the Sox are actually competitive, I give the Cubs very little thought aside from the six times the Sox play them. I can't say that about the Twins, Indians, Tigers, etc.

To say they don't share the same fans is simply not true. They're no doubt competing for young, impressionable fans who have yet to pick a team to call their own. These people represent the next generation of their core fanbase. They're also competing for the casual crowd, including tourists and transplants, on a more short-term basis.

 

None of this changes the fact I'd still make the trade, but the fact it's the Cubs was no doubt a consideration, no matter how small.

[Chicago White Sox]

They don't play in the same league, they don't share the same fans. They play six times a year, and VERY rarely are both teams good during the same season. The Cubs seasons have no bearing on the White Sox (not withstanding this latest trade )

 

When the Sox are actually competitive, I give the Cubs very little thought aside from the six times the Sox play them. I can't say that about the Twins, Indians, Tigers, etc.

To say they don't share the same fans is simply not true. They're no doubt competing for young, impressionable fans who have yet to pick a team to call their own. These people represent the next generation of their core fanbase. They're also competing for the casual crowd, including tourists and transplants, on a more short-term basis.

 

None of this changes the fact I'd still make the trade, but the fact it's the Cubs was no doubt a consideration, no matter how small.

[Jose Abreu]

I doubt Albies + Acuna was on the table, because I'd take those two alone over the Cubs trade.

They weren't. If the Braves were to offer them both for Quintana, Jose would've been a Brave the second Hahn received the offer.

[caulfield12]

Who is the best pitcher the Braves could have offered?

 

Allard or Soroka? Anderson?

 

Don't know their system very well...and obviously not considering anyone (Newcomb) on their current big league roster.

 

 

So there's basically no way to combine Albies with any of those pitchers and beat the Cubs' package, unless they added a third fairly significant piece (like the Sale deal) to the package.

[caulfield12]

To put the deal into perspective, a roughly comparable package from the Braves – just based on BA’s rankings — would include outfielder Ronald Acuna (ranked No. 10 overall), pitcher Luiz Gohara (No. 76) and two lesser prospects.

 

 

http://www.ajc.com/sports/baseball/leadoff...RGCFRO/?src=rss

Who has the top farm system now, the Braves or White Sox?

[Dam8610]

Who is the best pitcher the Braves could have offered?

 

Allard or Soroka? Anderson?

 

Don't know their system very well...and obviously not considering anyone (Newcomb) on their current big league roster.

 

 

So there's basically no way to combine Albies with any of those pitchers and beat the Cubs' package, unless they added a third fairly significant piece (like the Sale deal) to the package.

 

I think Albies, Allard/Soroka, and two other non-zero MLB chance pieces would've been better than the Cubs trade. But I can also see why you might take the topheavy package in that scenario.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

Anybody who isn't ecstatic with the return for Quintana is just wrong.

I'm cautiously optimistic with the return for Quintana. I still can't shake the belief that Hahn could've/should've held out for one of Happ/Candelario/Scwarber as the third piece in the deal.

 

I have no problem with Jimenez and Cease as prospects but I can't be ecstatic over getting two single A level players for Q, a still young, left handed pitcher proven to be one of the best starting pitchers in the majors over the past several years who is under a very reasonable contract for three more years. Cautiously optimistic over their potential, yes, but not ecstatic.