Sox send Frazier/DRob/Kahnle to NY ~ Rutherford/Clarkin/Clippard/Polo

[Chicago White Sox]

Nah, but if Cards want to give Kelly and flaherty for Avi and Swarzak, that be cool

 

 

But all three of our top 50 OF prospects are at least two years away. I say sign Avi to a 2 year deal and use him as trade bait in a year or two if he is still doing well

I don't necessarily mean now, but no way the Sox sign Avi to a long-term deal at this point.

[Jerksticks]

We just acquired another top 50 OF prospect, I think this signals Avi is as good as gone.

Interesting. Think he's too old and too close to FA? Just cash in now like Kahnle? I wouldn't be opposed.

[Rowand44]

No prob, just responding to you calling him Miller/Jenks.

Well that's almost what happened.

[soxforlife05]

Yup. Basically gave Kahnle away for free.

 

Who else on this team is going to land a prospect of Blake Rutherford's caliber. I'll be waiting.

[Enscheff]

Packaging several pieces with limited value to get a significant prospect in return was a masterstroke by Hahn. ChiSox fans should be ecstatic. Hahn is orchestrating the first year of this rebuild to perfection.

 

I've been clamoring for the Braves to do the same thing with 2-3 of Phillips, Garcia, Suzuki, Adams and some BP pieces, but unfortunately they seem to be under the silly notion they are still in contention.

[Soxbadger]

Also, consider the GM's Hahn is working with. Cashman is still the longest tenured GM in the game and simply does not lose deals. He has no issues with missing out on a guy because he can always find another, and always has been able to. Theo has been one of the most aggressive GMs in his career, but he's skilled at picking up players at their lowest value and maximizing that, thus allowing him to spend excessively otherwise. Rizzo is just weird.

 

Cashman is a tough mofo to deal with. I'm not upset, but won't necessarily say I'm happy. Will have to let it sink in.

 

Have to wait for it to be finalized but here is my uneducated take.

 

Top prospects are scarce, getting a top prospect in a trade is difficult. Irrespective of stats name/pedigree has value. Kahnle could be amazing could flame out. Frazier is not worh much. Robertson is solid but isn't a "must have" guy.

 

So the Sox took 3 guys who on their own would never get a top prospect and put them together for 1 plus some fliers.

 

I'm sure Hahn tested the market for all of them, it's possible if Kahnle plays this well until next trade deadline he would command a lot more. But if he blows his arm etc he's not getting you anything because he doesn't have the pedigree.

 

Sox have a ton of specs, collecting highly rated ones is the goal, this trade fits the bill.

Edited July 19, 2017 by Soxbadger

[TomPickle]

We just acquired another top 50 OF prospect, I think this signals Avi is as good as gone.

Pretty good chance none of the top three OF prospects in the system reach the majors before Avi reaches free agency.

 

Although that may not mean anything and I would treat Avi the opposite of how I would have Kahnle. His long track record of mediocrity (or worse) makes me think his value out in the market is lower than what it should be right now. I would want a top 75 prospect in a deal back even though I lean on the side of this being a mirage, but I'm more willing to roll the dice and keep him around if it isn't.

Edited July 19, 2017 by TomPickle

[Chicago White Sox]

Interesting. Think he's too old and too close to FA? Just cash in now like Kahnle? I wouldn't be opposed.

I just meant he's a trade asset we still have. Whether that is in the next two weeks or sometime next year, I don't expect Avi to be around in 2019. And with interesting but fringe OF options like Luery, Engel, Willy, & Delmonico ready for auditions, an argument can be made that it will be sooner rather than later.

[soxfan49]

One of two things can happen

 

1) Rutherford is a good player

2) Rutherford sucks but no one cares because of Jimenez, Kopech, Moncada, etc

 

Imagine saying to yourself last year that you'd be upset giving up these two plus Tommy f***ing Kahnle for Blake Rutherford

[Rowand44]

I just meant he's a trade asset we still have. Whether that is in the next two weeks or sometime next year, I don't expect Avi to be around in 2019. And with interesting but fringe OF options like Luery, Engel, Willy, & Delmonico ready for auditions, an argument can be made that it will be sooner rather than later.

That's obviously a valid opinion. Just given the context of what people were talking about there, I think everyone thought you meant Avi was going to get traded in the next 2 weeks.

[Real]

Avi good as gone? Lol

 

these of prospects aren't even collectively close to being ready to help this team.

[Ozzie for Manager]

Sorry about the miss spelling. I was trying to write it quickly.

 

Do you disagree with my logic though? I feel like it was pretty sound.

 

You could be right in the long run but right now its a bird in the hand. Holding onto him you risk injury, poor results. I would rather take what we can get, he really does us no good the next year or two when we will not be that good. Projections are always tough. If Rutherford becomes our starting RF in 3 years and hits 20HRs and .300 then nobody cares how good Kahnle becomes.

[soxforlife05]

Well David Robertson is 14th in reliever WAR since 2015 and there are legitimate reasons to believe that Kahnle has taken a step forward making him one of the best relievers in the league, so simplifying it like this is actually rather poor.

 

so we're gonna run with a 35-36 year old closer when our window opens up? kahnle is not a closer he's a middle reliever. really not much better than swarzak. you just rate him highly because he's younger

[Feeky Magee]

Pretty good chance none of the top three OF prospects in the system reach the majors before Avi reaches free agency.

 

Although that may not mean anything and I would treat Avi the opposite of how I would have Kahnle. His long track record of mediocrity (or worse) makes me think his value out in the market is lower than what it should be right now. I would want a top 75 prospect in a deal back even though I lean on the side of this being a mirage, but I'm more willing to roll the dice and keep him around if it isn't.

I would have been the opposite, very willing to deal Avi, and reluctant to deal Kahnle except for a very high return. Let's see how it works out.

[heirdog]

Avi good as gone? Lol

 

these of prospects aren't even collectively close to being ready to help this team.

 

These trades likely make the chance of a Melky extension close to zero

[Steve9347]

Getting a blue chip player like Rutherford is a massive MASSIVE win for the Sox. Much better than a bunch of 10-20 guys

Agreed. I'm shocked at the response here

[BaconOnAStick]

Until a couple months ago I wanted to take back the Almonte/Kahnle trade, now we just dealt Kahnle with two guys of middling value for a lefty hitting 20 year old OF prospect who just needs to develop his power to become a top 10 overall prospect.

[Chicago White Sox]

That's obviously a valid opinion. Just given the context of what people were talking about there, I think everyone thought you meant Avi was going to get traded in the next 2 weeks.

Lol...I can see why people inferred it that way, but that's not what I meant. Just meant we still have a couple decent trade chips left in Avi, Jones if he comes back healthy, & maybe even Rodon in a few years. Avi was simply the focus of my post given Rutherford being the big piece in this trade.

[CyAcosta41]

Love that we're targeting and (finally) getting some potential position player studs like Moncada, Jiminez, and, evidently, Rutherford. These types don't come cheap in today's game. That has to be factored into analyzing this trade. The Sox simply need as much top level talent as they can amass -- hence $50M on Robert, hence taking quality over more 10-15 types in this deal.

 

Haven't seen it mentioned, but I read the Clippard take as helping the Yank-mes with cash, but also, it has a Clippard return to the Nats trade written all over it. So maybe we're really talking a Nats 10-20 guy instead!

[Soxbadger]

Agreed. I'm shocked at the response here

 

Least surprising response. This trade is the type of thing you'd do in ootp some poor new gm.

[jenksycat]

Agreed. I'm shocked at the response here

 

Way over-valuing of our 3 + the huge hauls the Yanks got last year for Chapman/Miller = thinking we got fleeced.

[Dam8610]

so we're gonna run with a 35-36 year old closer when our window opens up? kahnle is not a closer he's a middle reliever. really not much better than swarzak. you just rate him highly because he's younger

 

The White Sox currently have about 11 talented SPs, one highly regarded reliever, and a few live arms in their minor league system (not counting Clarkin). A closer will emerge.

[Lillian]

You guys know how important I think it is to have a balanced lineup of right and left handed hitters.

The 2020 team could very well have the following guys at the top 2/3 of the lineup: Moncada, Robert, Jimenez, Burger, Collins and Rutherford.

That provides two left handed hitters and a switch hitter. That would finally provide, what has been an elusive balance to the order. They could be staggered left, right, left, right, left, right, which would make it tough on opposing pitchers and managers.

 

I'm not sure where Anderson will hit, but if he can't learn to take his walks, I suspect he'll not be in that top 2/3 of the order.

Of course we don't know who else will be added from the draft, or free agency, but all of the players I listed are very likely to be part of that 2020 team. I like it.

Edited July 19, 2017 by Lillian

[Eminor3rd]

Packaging several pieces with limited value to get a significant prospect in return was a masterstroke by Hahn. ChiSox fans should be ecstatic. Hahn is orchestrating the first year of this rebuild to perfection.

 

I've been clamoring for the Braves to do the same thing with 2-3 of Phillips, Garcia, Suzuki, Adams and some BP pieces, but unfortunately they seem to be under the silly notion they are still in contention.

 

Agreed. I know we got all pumped up, but Frazier/Robertson was NEVER bringing back Groome/Chavis or whatever. I'm shocked he was able to consolidate it all like that, but I'm glad he did.

[soxfan49]

You guys know how important I think it is to have a balanced lineup of right and left handed hitters.

The 2020 team could very well have the following guys at the top 2/3 of the lineup: Moncada, Robert, Jimenez, Burger, Collins and Rutherford.

That provides two left handed hitters and a switch hitter. That would finally provide, what has been an elusive balance to the order. I'm not sure where Anderson will hit, but if he can't learn to take his walks, I suspect he'll not be in that top 2/3 of the order.

 

Of course we don't know who else will be added from the draft, or free agency, but all of the players I listed are very likely to be part of that 2020 team. I like it.

Baby steps. Anderson needs to find some instincts. Forget walks, if he can't figure out the basic fundamentals of fielding a baseball, he'll be playing elsewhere