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Sox send Frazier/DRob/Kahnle to NY ~ Rutherford/Clarkin/Clippard/Polo


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QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 10:45 PM)
Way over-valuing of our 3 + the huge hauls the Yanks got last year for Chapman/Miller = thinking we got fleeced.

Is there one person here who thinks we got fleeced?

 

There's some negative reaction on the overall deal(if the 4th player is who is rumored) but nobody here has freaked out even a little bit about the deal. Seems pretty level headed around here for the most part.

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QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 10:43 PM)
Agreed. I'm shocked at the response here

 

Kahnle could easily regress back to his normal form at any point. Robertson does nothing for a rebuilding club, and Frazier is a pure rental.

 

This is a great great deal for the Sox

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QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 10:45 PM)
Way over-valuing of our 3 + the huge hauls the Yanks got last year for Chapman/Miller = thinking we got fleeced.

 

Sorry to break it to everyone but Robertson and Kahnle are nowhere near Chapman/Miller level. Kahnle has had 3 great months

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QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 10:44 PM)
Least surprising response. This trade is the type of thing you'd do in ootp some poor new gm.

 

I actually did that once, traded a bunch of middling MLB players I didn't want for someone's top prospect who ended up being my cleanup hitter on my World Series Champion team a few seasons later.

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QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 08:45 PM)
Agreed. I know we got all pumped up, but Frazier/Robertson was NEVER bringing back Groome/Chavis or whatever. I'm shocked he was able to consolidate it all like that, but I'm glad he did.

You are like the proverbial wet towel lately.

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QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 10:42 PM)
I would have been the opposite, very willing to deal Avi, and reluctant to deal Kahnle except for a very high return. Let's see how it works out.

I think two factors drove this trade. First, the Sox love Rutherford. Wouldn't be shocked if they thought he was a top 20 caliber prospect. Second, seeing a reliever like Nate Jones possibly lose the majority of his value in an instance probably convinced them to cash in on Kahnle now.

 

While I do think the trade feels light without a quality 3rd piece, I understand the logic of potentially losing out on some upside down the road for a blue chipper right now.

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QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 08:47 PM)
Kahnle could easily regress back to his normal form at any point. Robertson does nothing for a rebuilding club, and Frazier is a pure rental.

 

This is a great great deal for the Sox

And Rutherford could easily turn into nothing.

 

Now you are just justifying your own desire to like this deal.

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Also from a Sox perspective it makes sense because of Cooper.

 

Cooper has had great success "fixing" guys with great stuff. Sox can get him a new crop next year and maybe they can flip 1 or 2 for more prospects.

 

That's the great part about sucking, you can take risks on talent and maybe hit a lottery ticket.

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QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 09:49 PM)
You are like the proverbial wet towel lately.

 

I'm just trying to be realistic. It's weird, too, considering how insane the talent we've gotten is, that we should be all up in arms for only getting one top 50 prospect for our relievers, lol.

 

I mean, guys. As of today, this MIGHT be the most talent the Sox have EVER had in their system. You can't ask for more than that.

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QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 10:51 PM)
Sox are telling media there's going to be an announcement but be patient. LOL.

I think Ghengis logged on to Soxtalk and realizes his loyal subjects are split on the deal...Might be telling Cashman to open up his mouth for more hose water.

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QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 10:30 PM)
Cashman is a tough mofo to deal with. I'm not upset, but won't necessarily say I'm happy. Will have to let it sink in.

 

Same. Blake Rutherford is making it hard for me to dislike it at all though. :lol: Love him as a prospect. Wanted the sox to draft him last year in fact.

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QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 10:52 PM)
Also from a Sox perspective it makes sense because of Cooper.

 

Cooper has had great success "fixing" guys with great stuff. Sox can get him a new crop next year and maybe they can flip 1 or 2 for more prospects.

 

That's the great part about sucking, you can take risks on talent and maybe hit a lottery ticket.

 

Soxtalk would fall into chaos if this deal falls apart

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QUOTE (Lillian @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 09:45 PM)
You guys know how important I think it is to have a balanced lineup of right and left handed hitters.

The 2020 team could very well have the following guys at the top 2/3 of the lineup: Moncada, Robert, Jimenez, Burger, Collins and Rutherford.

That provides two left handed hitters and a switch hitter. That would finally provide, what has been an elusive balance to the order. They could be staggered left, right, left, right, left, right, which would make it tough on opposing pitchers and managers.

 

I'm not sure where Anderson will hit, but if he can't learn to take his walks, I suspect he'll not be in that top 2/3 of the order.

Of course we don't know who else will be added from the draft, or free agency, but all of the players I listed are very likely to be part of that 2020 team. I like it.

 

Don't forget Adolfo and Sheets...

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I am not thrilled with the end of the return (at least so far) I would have liked at least one more decent guy in this deal, but I am totally on board with the idea behind the deal. Frazier is worth nothing. Robertson had some value. Kahnle is a big wild card in terms of value, and I am thrilled we sold high on him. Relievers are so flukey and inconsistent, especially for a guy that was awful before this season. There is a pretty big chance of regression there. If putting him in the deal is what got the top player upgraded to Rutherford, that is fine with me.

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QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 10:52 PM)
I'm just trying to be realistic. It's weird, too, considering how insane the talent we've gotten is, that we should be all up in arms for only getting one top 50 prospect for our relievers, lol.

 

I mean, guys. As of today, this MIGHT be the most talent the Sox have EVER had in their system. You can't ask for more than that.

Nobody is up in arms. Seriously, the only people freaking out about the deal are the ones telling the people who don't love it that they're wrong.

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QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 10:53 PM)
Same. Blake Rutherford is making it hard for me to dislike it at all though. :lol: Love him as a prospect. Wanted the sox to draft him last year in fact.

 

I really wanted Kyle Lewis last year instead of Collins. I still think he will be a quality player.

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QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 10:47 PM)
Is there one person here who thinks we got fleeced?

 

There's some negative reaction on the overall deal(if the 4th player is who is rumored) but nobody here has freaked out even a little bit about the deal. Seems pretty level headed around here for the most part.

Earlier today I said that my goal if I traded Kahnle this year was a top 100 prospect. I thought he might get to being worth a top 50 prospect on his own next year, but that is a risky move.

 

In other words...by adding Robertson and Frazier, they upgraded what I thought Kahnle would bring back from a top 100 prospect to a top 50 prospect, with then 2 other pieces added in. I consider that to be fair value for Robo + Frazier.

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It is really interesting looking at it from the Yankees side of it now having 4 really great relievers for the next 1.5 years. It could very well be the best bullpen in the modern era beating out the Wagner, Dotel, and Lidge trio.

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The fact they were able to get a legit top 30-40 prospect and a promising left is a fairly adequate return. But I definitely like the return better from the Yankee's side. They're getting a solid closer with a decent track record and one hell of an arm in Kahnle. I like Kahnle's chances of being a dominant reliever over the next few years better than Rutherford ever seeing the bigs. In a few years we'll be really lucky to pull off a trade like this.

Edited by mac9001
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QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 08:52 PM)
I'm just trying to be realistic. It's weird, too, considering how insane the talent we've gotten is, that we should be all up in arms for only getting one top 50 prospect for our relievers, lol.

 

I mean, guys. As of today, this MIGHT be the most talent the Sox have EVER had in their system. You can't ask for more than that.

This is likely the best system we have ever had.

 

Yippee. That gets you aboslutely jack s*** nothing.

 

Am I excited? Of course! But that doesn't mean you just handwave away a huge asset that we just moved to get basically one solid prospect. Maybe I am underwhelmed by Clarkin, and I hope I am. But IMO, Kahnle himself was worth close to Rutherford himself. While Robertson is due some money, he's a dependable, solid closing option. I don't like the addition of Clarkin to bundle two pretty outstanding relievers together.

 

Rutherford is still in high A ball afterall.

 

 

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