Sox send Frazier/DRob/Kahnle to NY ~ Rutherford/Clarkin/Clippard/Polo

[kwolf68]

From everything I read about him it seems more like high risk/cieling-of-a-#4-starter reward.

 

Perhaps and that's sorta along the lines of what I sense. But to hear he totally dominates when he is locked in tells me the potential is there....potential to be a legit ML arm or potential to be assistant coach at PoDunk High School as gym teacher.

[GenericUserName]

Maybe you should stop posting here then. I highly doubt you're smarter than everyone else here, because you seem like ignore the facts on how much value relievers have in trade deadlines or FA market in the past few years. One trade with the A's does not change the market. Neither Doolittle or Madson has closer experience like Robertson, and they aren't as dominant as Kahnle. They should rightfully go for less.

 

To add on, most analysts seem to agree that the A's didn't get enough back and that it was a bad deal for them. So just like you cannot expect a repeat of the Chapman trade or the Shelby Miller trade because they were abnormally high, that trade should not be used as a baseline because it seems abnormally low.

[Balta1701]

1. How is that different than the "Haha, we got those idiots. The guy we gave up is a bust and the guy we got is awesome."

 

2. So the value of Robertson and Frazier, both of whome other teams wanted, was Clarkin, Polo, and having to take on Clippard?

When you take the contracts into account, I don't think that's all that far off. I think we got a slightly better prospect for Kahnle because of them, but that's kinda true. Take a look at the D-Backs trade for Martinez and the Nationals trade for the A's bullpen and then remember that Robertson is paid 2x as much as Madson, and that's not far from the current market for those guys.

[Ozzie for Manager]

Even if he is the next Andrew Miller he's gone after next season. And what more could the Sox really have gotten for him next year? Rutherford is now where Torres was last deadline, I doubt they get more for him next deadline than Rutherford.

 

Robertson and Frazier for Clarkin and Polo is a wash.

 

What is really lost in this trade talk is that Swarzak is the closer now and I have him on my fantasy team which should allow me to gain some spots in saves. This can not be understated. Well done Rick Hahn.

[thxfrthmmrs]

Because he had to take some off to get it over the plate. He's always thrown extreme gas.

 

He's always been throwing hard, so if he's able to throw hard more consistently now due to improved command, then it's more likely he's able to sustain success. People act like he's having a fluke year, but there is real reason behind his success.

[tray]

I hope Rutherford works out for us. Maybe he will be the next Jacoby Ellsbury minus the injury issues.

 

This deal should work out for the Yankees and the guys we traded to them. Frazier is from New Jersey and grew up as a Yankee fan. He said that he can spend more time at home now during the season, so good for him.

Robertson was traded from the Yankees and Kahnle came up in their system so they are both going back to familiar circumstances.

 

I will root for the Yankees over the Bosox if they meet in the playoffs. Frazier is one of my favorite players so I would like to see hm win a championship. Also, good luck to Kahnle, a very humble man and hard worker who really found his grove while pitching for our team.

[GenericUserName]

Perhaps and that's sorta along the lines of what I sense. But to hear he totally dominates when he is locked in tells me the potential is there....potential to be a legit ML arm or potential to be assistant coach at PoDunk High School as gym teacher.

 

If your definition of a high reward is being a ML starter, then I can't disagree that he does have that upside. I guess personally for the high amount of risk involved with someone who has spent four years in A ball and is a injury liability I would want a greater upside.

[BaconOnAStick]

In the MLB.com list, Rutherford comes in at #30.

 

When he was traded for Miller last year, Frazier was the #15 prospect in the MLB.com list. So maybe with a completely dominant full extra year they could have gotten more than Rutherford...but hey, Rutherford's in A ball, if he has a good 2nd half he'll move up the lists too.

But there is not as much control left on Kahnle, and if he's dealt next deadline it would be as a rental.

 

Also, if there is one thing the White Sox have in spades it's right handers with explosive stuff. They are in a pretty good position to replace Kahnle without ever noticing hes gone.

[NorthSideSox72]

Detailed write-up on the three prospects acquired via FutureSox.

 

[Dick Allen]

But there is not as much control left on Kahnle, and if he's dealt next deadline it would be as a rental.

 

Also, if there is one thing the White Sox have in spades it's right handers with explosive stuff. They are in a pretty good position to replace Kahnle without ever noticing hes gone.

Kahnle is controlled 3 more seasons after this one.

[GenericUserName]

But there is not as much control left on Kahnle, and if he's dealt next deadline it would be as a rental.

 

Also, if there is one thing the White Sox have in spades it's right handers with explosive stuff. They are in a pretty good position to replace Kahnle without ever noticing hes gone.

 

Did you mean Robertson who is a free agent after next year?

[Bananarchy]

When you take the contracts into account, I don't think that's all that far off. I think we got a slightly better prospect for Kahnle because of them, but that's kinda true. Take a look at the D-Backs trade for Martinez and the Nationals trade for the A's bullpen and then remember that Robertson is paid 2x as much as Madson, and that's not far from the current market for those guys.

I'm not sure anyone "wanted" frazier for that matter...

[bmags]

If there is one thing as a fan that I have no real bearing for, it's how to value money players are owed in a deal.

 

I think I overvalued the money component with Quintana and undervalued it for Robertson.

 

It seems like if teams feel that player is getting paid above or market price for their services and they are taking on that contract, they are not paying for their talent in a way that we would recognize.

 

I would love to know if there is a system or model that teams use to figure that out.

[RockRaines]

He's always been throwing hard, so if he's able to throw hard more consistently now due to improved command, then it's more likely he's able to sustain success. People act like he's having a fluke year, but there is real reason behind his success.

He's had months of consistency before, only to lose command and see his ERA spike.

[OmarComing25]

What is really lost in this trade talk is that Swarzak is the closer now and I have him on my fantasy team which should allow me to gain some spots in saves. This can not be understated. Well done Rick Hahn.

Until Swarzak is also gone a week from now.

[thxfrthmmrs]

But there is not as much control left on Kahnle, and if he's dealt next deadline it would be as a rental.

 

Also, if there is one thing the White Sox have in spades it's right handers with explosive stuff. They are in a pretty good position to replace Kahnle without ever noticing hes gone.

 

He's got three and a half year left, just like Q.

[BaconOnAStick]

I somehow thought Kahnle only had a season and a half of control left.

[bmags]

One other thing is the trades of yesterday felt so much more familiar to me. THe trades of well playing veterans for fringey spects reminded me of the bets that KW so easily made with a bad farm system. But nobody was a truly elite player, and we built too much of our team on these types without enough of the big impact guys to pull the weight. Like, it seems foolish now to think that Youk could have legit led us to playoffs but I totally believed it.

[shipps]

Hahn is not in denial of the fact that he is making gambles with each trade that he has made. Its just not likely to get teams to make deals that give an overwhelming amount back to negate all the risk. Every once in a while you can swindle some dumb GM to give it all but that is few and far between. Remember all the years we were in buyers mode? We would never be willing to give up three of our best prospects for anyone and those guys sucked.

[pablo]

He's always been throwing hard, so if he's able to throw hard more consistently now due to improved command, then it's more likely he's able to sustain success. People act like he's having a fluke year, but there is real reason behind his success.

 

I don't think people are acting like it is a fluke - just that you need to capitalize on his value when you (the Sox, not us) think the time is right. In looking at the MLB.com midseason ranking, which admittedly I don't love but it is the most easily accessible, I don't see another prospect the Sox could have gotten for Kahnle that is as highly rated as Rutherford, based on team need and teams willing to give up prospects (Robles, Brinson, Ray, etc). Now if you are in the camp that you might have wanted a more depth package instead of the higher ranked prospect then an argument can be made for that. Personally, I don't think the Yankees wanted to do that as they are saving some bullets for a controllable starter I assume.

 

Another thing that has skewed alot of people's ideas of the possible return is what Miller and Chapman got back last year. The Cubs and Indians were very unique situations last year which played into the Yankees hands. I don't think that can be understated - IMO those types of deals are unlikely to happen again unless it is for the extremely uber talented young(ish) proven closers.

 

Lastly - if you want to judge the possible return of what Kahnle might bring next year, then keep an eye on Justin Wilson. He's a guy that has for about 2 years has been a darn good bullpen piece which is what we would hope Kahnle might become. I doubt he brings back a player better than Rutherford, but likely will net a better second piece than Clarkin.

[thxfrthmmrs]

He's had months of consistency before, only to lose command and see his ERA spike.

 

For over half a season? In which year?

 

But I don't think we can equate consistency in numbers with improvement in his changeup or fastball command.

[RockRaines]

One other thing is the trades of yesterday felt so much more familiar to me. THe trades of well playing veterans for fringey spects reminded me of the bets that KW so easily made with a bad farm system. But nobody was a truly elite player, and we built too much of our team on these types without enough of the big impact guys to pull the weight. Like, it seems foolish now to think that Youk could have legit led us to playoffs but I totally believed it.

KW would have gotten like 8 fringe prospects back in that deal, all superior athletes with no baseball skills.

[RockRaines]

For over half a season? In which year?

 

But I don't think we can equate consistency in numbers with improvement in his changeup or fastball command.

I believe his second season in Col, but Ill have to check. His walks went up and so did his ERA

[Eminor3rd]

I think everyone's sleeping on Tito Polo

[bmags]

KW would have gotten like 8 fringe prospects back in that deal, all superior athletes with no baseball skills.

 

I was thinking more the JD martinez/doolittle deals.