Rowand44 Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 I agree with you chisoxfn, to me the two most important fa's this team needs to sign are bart and flash, no matter what happens, with a new manager the sox will be competitive, I know im in the minority but i want to see frank gone, i also would like to see pauly get traded, and I wouldn't mind maggs getting traded if we got something good in return, what i want to see in the offseason is bartolo resigned, flash resigned, a new good manager, and some speed added to the offense. Whatever happens in the offseason, it's going to be hard to put a more inconsistent and worse offense out there, then what they did statistically this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 While I do agree that Colon is the #1 priority, I don't really thin we need Gordon back, at the price he is gonna command....we don't need to tie up the 2-3 mill minimum Tom will want to come back. We have Marte, and hopefully Koch can revert back to non-tired arm form next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 I agree with you chisoxfn, to me the two most important fa's this team needs to sign are bart and flash, no matter what happens, with a new manager the sox will be competitive, I know im in the minority but i want to see frank gone, i also would like to see pauly get traded, and I wouldn't mind maggs getting traded if we got something good in return, what i want to see in the offseason is bartolo resigned, flash resigned, a new good manager, and some speed added to the offense. Whatever happens in the offseason, it's going to be hard to put a more inconsistent and worse offense out there, then what they did statistically this year. I don't see Gordon as much of a priority, but they do need someone like him..and I'd prefer Hawkins. Gordon scares the hell out of me because this was his first full year in like 5 years. Can we really expect another? Its a tough call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 While I do agree that Colon is the #1 priority, I don't really thin we need Gordon back, at the price he is gonna command....we don't need to tie up the 2-3 mill minimum Tom will want to come back. We have Marte, and hopefully Koch can revert back to non-tired arm form next year. Sox need to have a great bullpen, imo. You have a great pen with a great pitching staff, good defense and a solid manager and you will be a playoff team. The Cubs did that without the solid pen and now they could very well go deep into the playoffs. My goal for the Sox would be to invest the money in the pitching. Maybe not gordon, but Hawkins and Sully back...and if you can unload Koch bring the three of them in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Sullivan, as a situational bullpen guy, is NOT worth his 3.1 million dollar option IMO. Not with the financial limitations the Sox have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Lopez Ghost (old) Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Well, our richest contract ever is 3 years, worth between 30 and 33 million dollars. He will get 5 years somewhere, for more than 60 million dollars. New manager, worse pitching, KW redecorating the team...This ain't gonna be pretty.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 No. Hes giving sox fans hope. Letting them know that he will do everything in his power to bring back a winner. ITs especially important considering the cubs are in the playoffs. Stop your whining. And if Bart doesn't sign.. which he wont, the fans get pissed with him. KW is an idiot. He has a big mouth, and a small brain. Negotiations do not belong in the public. JMO though.. And you, stop your b****ing about people whining :finger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Colon is going to be in a sox uniform for several years. Book it. Don't bet too much on this one.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Count me in on that trip also, mmmmmmmmmmbeer...I have the utmost confidence in KW doing what is needed for this team in 2004 and beyond. I wish I shared your faith. This guys track record on the big trades speak volumes though for me. Bust, after bust, after bust. Frightens me that KW will be GM if Maggs is dealt like the rumors here believe he will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 He will get 5 years somewhere, for more than 60 million dollars. New manager, worse pitching, KW redecorating the team...This ain't gonna be pretty.... A realist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 I just saw a report that shows the offer as 3 years for 10-12 million per. The elevators in my building show wire reports, but I didn't catch the source. They usually use cnnsi.com, so maybe that's where it was from... If true, that's not a bad deal for either side, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Tub of Goo... He Gawn.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 I just saw a report that shows the offer as 3 years for 10-12 million per. The elevators in my building show wire reports, but I didn't catch the source. They usually use cnnsi.com, so maybe that's where it was from... If true, that's not a bad deal for either side, IMO. Thats about what I had heard too. 10-12 mil is about where I had pegged Colon's worth also. If any team offers him more than that then they are grossly overpaying for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 I just saw a report that shows the offer as 3 years for 10-12 million per. The elevators in my building show wire reports, but I didn't catch the source. They usually use cnnsi.com, so maybe that's where it was from... If true, that's not a bad deal for either side, IMO. Thats about what I had heard too. 10-12 mil is about where I had pegged Colon's worth also. If any team offers him more than that then they are grossly overpaying for him. "Grossly overpaying" is just the price of business for Steinbrenner and the Yankees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Why do you think the Yankees helped us get Bartolo instead of the Red Sox? So it'd be easier for them to sign him after this season. Had he gone to Boston, he could have hurt the Yankees in the division race this season and also possibly in the playoffs. And if Colon had liked Boston, he would've most likely stayed in Boston, which Steinbrenner didn't want to happen. So they help us land Colon, let us have him for a year, then come and scoop him up. Not saying it's 100% gonna happen, but I will say that if Colon resigns with us, I'll be in shock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 I just saw a report that shows the offer as 3 years for 10-12 million per. The elevators in my building show wire reports, but I didn't catch the source. They usually use cnnsi.com, so maybe that's where it was from... If true, that's not a bad deal for either side, IMO. Thats about what I had heard too. 10-12 mil is about where I had pegged Colon's worth also. If any team offers him more than that then they are grossly overpaying for him. Anything over 10-12 mill per season for Colon is too much....and justifiably so, thats all that KW should have offered. If he goes to Boston or New York, and gets more, its their problem to deal with. What was done is all that can be done by KW concerning Colon...all he could have done was MAYBE offer 1 more year, but then we get financially obligated to him for 40-44 mil instead of 30-33, and I'm sure it took all the convincing in the world by KW to get JR to pay out that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Why do you think the Yankees helped us get Bartolo instead of the Red Sox? So it'd be easier for them to sign him after this season. Had he gone to Boston, he could have hurt the Yankees in the division race this season and also possibly in the playoffs. And if Colon had liked Boston, he would've most likely stayed in Boston, which Steinbrenner didn't want to happen. So they help us land Colon, let us have him for a year, then come and scoop him up. Not saying it's 100% gonna happen, but I will say that if Colon resigns with us, I'll be in shock. That's exactly the way it's gonna happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Why do you think the Yankees helped us get Bartolo instead of the Red Sox? So it'd be easier for them to sign him after this season. Had he gone to Boston, he could have hurt the Yankees in the division race this season and also possibly in the playoffs. And if Colon had liked Boston, he would've most likely stayed in Boston, which Steinbrenner didn't want to happen. So they help us land Colon, let us have him for a year, then come and scoop him up. Not saying it's 100% gonna happen, but I will say that if Colon resigns with us, I'll be in shock. That's exactly the way it's gonna happen. He Gawn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 10-12 mill is too much. Keep the money and spend it elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 10-12 mill is too much. Keep the money and spend it elsewhere. That is the price of good pitching. I do not think it is to high. Teams get to the playoffs with proven starting pitching. In the end that was what carried the Twins and why the Yanks win over 90 games a year, as well as the Red Sox and A's. We won't spend it elsewhere either. The Reds (pre-fire sale,) Astros, and Rangers can hit with anyone and where are they. You combine good starting pitching with good defense and you have something. If your starters are not that strong you need a really good pen but can get by with a mediocore pen with top flight starters. Other than the Angels last year everyone that wins does it with pitching, not offense. This goes back to the beginning of time. All things being equal, the pitcher has the easy part under pressure in the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 That is the price of good pitching. I do not think it is to high. Teams get to the playoffs with proven starting pitching. In the end that was what carried the Twins and why the Yanks win over 90 games a year, as well as the Red Sox and A's. We won't spend it elsewhere either. The Reds (pre-fire sale,) Astros, and Rangers can hit with anyone and where are they. You combine good starting pitching with good defense and you have something. If your starters are not that strong you need a really good pen but can get by with a mediocore pen with top flight starters. Other than the Angels last year everyone that wins does it with pitching, not offense. This goes back to the beginning of time. All things being equal, the pitcher has the easy part under pressure in the playoffs. The Twins don't spend anywhere near 10-12 mil per season on a pitcher. Their highest paid pitcher is Radke and he makes nowhere near that. Also, if I am not mistaken, the Twins have won by playing smart baseball, not by dominating starting pitching. They were 7th in the AL this season in pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 The Twins don't spend anywhere near 10-12 mil per season on a pitcher. Their highest paid pitcher is Radke and he makes nowhere near that. Also, if I am not mistaken, the Twins have won by playing smart baseball, not by dominating starting pitching. They were 7th in the AL this season in pitching. Radke gets paid $8 mil a year on a 4 year deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 The Twins don't spend anywhere near 10-12 mil per season on a pitcher. Their highest paid pitcher is Radke and he makes nowhere near that. Also, if I am not mistaken, the Twins have won by playing smart baseball, not by dominating starting pitching. They were 7th in the AL this season in pitching. IMO the Twins are not that good and took advantage of a good situation (weak divison.) Radke and Santana were unhittable after the break. Lohse was hot and cold but as I stated they have a bullpen that was unhittable, like ours in 2000. If your not going to spend on a bullpen or starting pitching you are going to be done by the end of August. For a prime example see today's Twins game and the last five times they played us. Look no further than the cubs, they have bad defense so their starters strike out an inordiante numebr of guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 The Twins don't spend anywhere near 10-12 mil per season on a pitcher. Their highest paid pitcher is Radke and he makes nowhere near that. Also, if I am not mistaken, the Twins have won by playing smart baseball, not by dominating starting pitching. They were 7th in the AL this season in pitching. IMO the Twins are not that good and took advantage of a good situation (weak divison.) Radke and Santana were unhittable after the break. Lohse was hot and cold but as I stated they have a bullpen that was unhittable, like ours in 2000. If your not going to spend on a bullpen or starting pitching you are going to be done by the end of August. For a prime example see today's Twins game and the last five times they played us. Look no further than the cubs, they have bad defense so their starters strike out an inordiante numebr of guys. If you think they are not that good, you are mistaken. Give credit where credit is due. They've won the divison 2 straight years, were one game from the World Series last season and they're up 1-0 on the Yankees as we speak in the ALDS. They may have won a weak division, but since we couldn't beat F'n Detroit, what does that make us? Twins are a good team, like it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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