Ricky Renteria and Bunting

[Y2Jimmy0]

I wrote about it today: https://www.bagadonutssports.com/blog/2017/...g-but-should-he

 

What do you guys think?

[iamshack]

I wrote about it today: https://www.bagadonutssports.com/blog/2017/...g-but-should-he

 

What do you guys think?

I think the vast majority of folks agree with you.

 

I do think there is a place for bunting particularly in the era of the shift, and it kills me when guys cannot exploit that. I also think, given the amount of men left on 3rd base with less than 2 outs, there is more of a place for the safety squeeze or bunt hits to put pressure on defenses.

 

If Rick is giving our guys OTJ for use in the future, um, fine, but why are we not "practicing" to bunt for more hits?

 

Maybe it's a brilliant way of tanking even more, in an ingenious plan handed down by the FO? Doubtful.

 

I think he should be questioned and I am happy he is being questioned.

 

Hopefully, as others have said, the analytics team will sit down with him and get it fixed.

Edited July 25, 2017 by iamshack

[Wanne]

yeah...I read his comments this morning and it does make sense...regardless of how infuriating it is to fans. Agree with shack above too about why not practice bunting for hits then too. But overall...for most of us who question it...I do think there's a method to his madness.

[caulfield12]

Hawk said recently they're practicing "butcher boy" plays....Hanson is consistently the best.

[iamshack]

Hawk said recently they're practicing "butcher boy" plays....Hanson is consistently the best.

Hanson tried it in a game last week, actually.

Edited July 25, 2017 by iamshack

[winninguglyin83]

Why is Hanson on the team?

[caulfield12]

Who should be there instead?

Delmonico, Willy Garcia, Asche or Liriano? And why does it really matter?

 

Leury coming back will force a subsequent move, anyway...

 

 

[harkness99]

there is no intelligent method for any of this madness.... I don't care how you want to explain it.

 

 

Bunting is a skill that is mildly useful... the frequency of the bunting and focus of it is not justifiable.

[elrockinMT]

He's just trying to learn them in the art of bunting

[elrockinMT]

Who should be there instead?

Delmonico, Willy Garcia, Asche or Liriano? And why does it really matter?

 

Leury coming back will force a subsequent move, anyway...

 

 

Hanson has no options so it's doubtful he is moved anywhere.

 

[zisk]

there is no intelligent method for any of this madness.... I don't care how you want to explain it.

 

 

Bunting is a skill that is mildly useful... the frequency of the bunting and focus of it is not justifiable.

I watched a few innings against the royals and some moron announcer was saying

 

that wasting an out with a bunt when the Sox were ahead by 2 runs was solid strategy.

 

Please stop Ricky before he signals bunt again.

[Panerista]

There are few situations where bunting is appropriate.

 

None of them exist for a team that is rebuilding.

[witesoxfan]

There are few situations where bunting is appropriate.

 

None of them exist for a team that is rebuilding.

 

That's silly. If anything, bunting makes plenty of sense. It's a fundamental skill that, when developed, allows a team a better opportunity to score 1 run. When the Sox are good again, that is something that helps them win close games. Beyond that, excessive bunting is actually causing them to lose games more often now, which is what I think we all want the Sox to do now.

 

Really, if this persists in 2019 and 2020, then I'll take issue with it. At this point, I couldn't care less.

[Balta1701]

That's silly. If anything, bunting makes plenty of sense. It's a fundamental skill that, when developed, allows a team a better opportunity to score 1 run. When the Sox are good again, that is something that helps them win close games. Beyond that, excessive bunting is actually causing them to lose games more often now, which is what I think we all want the Sox to do now.

 

Really, if this persists in 2019 and 2020, then I'll take issue with it. At this point, I couldn't care less.

Apparently the bolded is only true under some very limited circumstances/with batters who aren't particularly good at batting.

[witesoxfan]

Apparently the bolded is only true under some very limited circumstances/with batters who aren't particularly good at batting.

 

Typically you are looking at a runner on 2nd with no outs or runners on 1st and 2nd with no outs.

[Balta1701]

Typically you are looking at a runner on 2nd with no outs or runners on 1st and 2nd with no outs.

And in both of those cases...for example, if Yoan Moncada is bunting, we've failed terribly with our player development. I want Moncada swinging away in those cases, even if it's the 9th inning and we're down by 1 run. Ditto almost everyone else on our next competitive roster.

 

Fine, Adam Engel should be bunting in those situations. Leury Garcia should be bunting. The idea that we need to get Moncada prepped to do that is straight up backwards.

[witesoxfan]

And in both of those cases...for example, if Yoan Moncada is bunting, we've failed terribly with our player development. I want Moncada swinging away in those cases, even if it's the 9th inning and we're down by 1 run. Ditto almost everyone else on our next competitive roster.

 

Fine, Adam Engel should be bunting in those situations. Leury Garcia should be bunting. The idea that we need to get Moncada prepped to do that is straight up backwards.

 

I don't think Moncada should be sacrificing, no, but he and Anderson should be trying the occasional bunt for a hit. Both have very good speed, that sort of thing can easily become a weapon for them.

[harkness99]

That's silly. If anything, bunting makes plenty of sense. It's a fundamental skill that, when developed, allows a team a better opportunity to score 1 run. When the Sox are good again, that is something that helps them win close games. Beyond that, excessive bunting is actually causing them to lose games more often now, which is what I think we all want the Sox to do now.

 

Really, if this persists in 2019 and 2020, then I'll take issue with it. At this point, I couldn't care less.

 

statistically it doesn't increase your chances at scoring 1 run... look at the numbers I posted out of the baseball almanac...

 

There are very few times where a sac bunt should be used...

 

Acting like its some great skill for the future is laughable.

[Balta1701]

I don't think Moncada should be sacrificing, no, but he and Anderson should be trying the occasional bunt for a hit. Both have very good speed, that sort of thing can easily become a weapon for them.

I totally agree Moncada should be working on bunting for a hit.

 

Squaring around to sacrifice several times during an at bat is not the same skill or technique and that's the one this thread is about. He's been ordered to do that more than once now.

 

I would have no problem if Moncada had been turning rapidly to try to bunt for a hit and turned it into a sacrifice because it went to someone. That is not what he was doing. He held the bat out and gave the 1b and 3b time to charge - that's a sacrifice.

[witesoxfan]

statistically it doesn't increase your chances at scoring 1 run... look at the numbers I posted out of the baseball almanac...

 

There are very few times where a sac bunt should be used...

 

Acting like its some great skill for the future is laughable.

 

I missed that in the last thread. I recall those numbers differently, but perhaps new research has come out suggesting otherwise. Simply missed it - thanks for correcting it!

 

I totally agree Moncada should be working on bunting for a hit.

 

Squaring around to sacrifice several times during an at bat is not the same skill or technique and that's the one this thread is about. He's been ordered to do that more than once now.

 

I would have no problem if Moncada had been turning rapidly to try to bunt for a hit and turned it into a sacrifice because it went to someone. That is not what he was doing. He held the bat out and gave the 1b and 3b time to charge - that's a sacrifice.

 

But here's where I get lost. You are saying, essentially, that a sacrifice bunt and bunting for a hit are entirely different things. I disagree wholeheartedly. A sacrifice bunt and bunting for a hit are very similar, but the execution of the play itself is different. A sacrifice bunt is used when you square up ahead of time and focus on just making contact with the ball. Bunting for a hit is quite a bit more complicated as the idea is to either push the ball down the 3B line or drag it just past the pitcher but not all the way to the first-baseman or the second-baseman. To improve your bunting for a hit, getting experience straight up laying bunts down is required, and just like anything, it's a completely different experience doing it in game. If you don't have the skill to put down a sacrifice, I highly doubt you have the skill to bunt for a hit. There are slight variations in technique, but you are going to hold the bat the same way for both.

 

Basically, it goes back to simple logic. If you can bunt for a hit, then you can also lay down a sacrifice, but if you cannot lay down a sacrifice, then I'd have no faith in you to bunt for a hit either.

[Wanne]

well...he had a perfect chance to work on his suicides today...and honestly surprised he didn't do it. Forget who was up but it was second and 3rd with one out in a one run game. If you're going to pull that sac crap in early innings based on "learning game experiences"...why not suicides as well?

[witesoxfan]

well...he had a perfect chance to work on his suicides today...and honestly surprised he didn't do it. Forget who was up but it was second and 3rd with one out in a one run game. If you're going to pull that sac crap in early innings based on "learning game experiences"...why not suicides as well?

 

I completely agree. Like I said, if this stuff is continuing when the team is actually going to be competitive, then Renteria needs to have his hands tied.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I completely agree. Like I said, if this stuff is continuing when the team is actually going to be competitive, then Renteria needs to have his hands tied.

I'm sure Renteria is being his own man with the bunts but dude has to realize if he wants a future managing that stuff needs to hit the scrap heap. How bout letting your speedy guys steal ? I know stealing isn't as en vogue as it used to be but how many times do the Sox have to screw up the bunt or hit into a DP or get another hit only to strand 2 runners on base so many innings ?

 

If we are going to have all these speedy little guys give them the green light and learn a skill that has value. It's just shameful that the team leader in steals has 6 !

[harkness99]

even though statistically sac bunting isn't productive there are still times I think it should be used.

 

9th inning two runners on... a non run producing or low avg hitter up - sac bunt is good. Now there is tremendous pressure on the pitcher as decent contact loses the game.

 

Also the historical success of the hitters vs the pitcher following the sac bunts.

 

Sac bunts should be extremely rare... there is no valid reason to practice them so much.

 

Bunting for hits with speedy players is a whole different thing - They should learn how to bunt.

[kitekrazy]

even though statistically sac bunting isn't productive there are still times I think it should be used.

 

9th inning two runners on... a non run producing or low avg hitter up - sac bunt is good. Now there is tremendous pressure on the pitcher as decent contact loses the game.

 

Also the historical success of the hitters vs the pitcher following the sac bunts.

 

Sac bunts should be extremely rare... there is no valid reason to practice them so much.

 

Bunting for hits with speedy players is a whole different thing - They should learn how to bunt.

 

Those are the most dangerous guys in the above situation. That puts a lot of pressure on a pitcher. For any kid it's not a glamorous part of baseball.