Reinsdorf Needed Convincing to Trade with Cubs

[Lip Man 1]

Advertisers are going to spend their money on the Cubs, heck the score 670 booted the Sox and picked up the Cubs.

 

Wait till you see what happens advertiser wise when the Cubs start their own TV Network. They'll suck all the air out of the room. (As well as $$$$$$$)

 

[witesoxfan]

The dumb fake rivalry? Living in denial is never a good thing. There is ALWAYS a rivalry between teams in the same city and teams in close proximity of one another. Cubs fans hate the Sox and Sox fans hate the Cubs, the quicker people with your view accept this, the quicker you guys can move on.

 

I don't hate the Cubs, except maybe 4 times a year. Guess I'm not a Sox fan.

[Dick Allen]

I don't hate the Cubs, except maybe 4 times a year. Guess I'm not a Sox fan.

No one ever said that, but White Sox fans who hate the Cubs aren't all meatheads. It's a pretty big rivalry, just check out tonight's attendance. The Sox don't draw that on a Wednesday night for Cleveland or KC or Minnesota or Detroit, teams some would say are the White Sox real rivals.

 

They are rivals and always will be. I would imagine most people living in the Chicago area know more Cubs fans than Sox fans and know more Cubs fans than fans of any other team. It's nice to stick it to them whenever there's a chance.

[SonofaRoache]

I don't hate the Cubs, except maybe 4 times a year. Guess I'm not a Sox fan.

 

 

Are there any teams you dislike? If yes what are the reasons?

[SonofaRoache]

No one ever said that, but White Sox fans who hate the Cubs aren't all meatheads. It's a pretty big rivalry, just check out tonight's attendance. The Sox don't draw that on a Wednesday night for Cleveland or KC or Minnesota or Detroit, teams some would say are the White Sox real rivals.

 

They are rivals and always will be. I would imagine most people living in the Chicago area know more Cubs fans than Sox fans and know more Cubs fans than fans of any other team. It's nice to stick it to them whenever there's a chance.

 

 

I don't understand why people are afraid to accept this. It's okay to not like the Cubs and root for them to fail. In fact, for the next two years that's really all we'll be able to cheer for as we lose 100 games a year. Most of our prospects wont be settled in until 2020.

[Dick Allen]

I don't understand why people are afraid to accept this. It's okay to not like the Cubs and root for them to fail. In fact, for the next two years that's really all we'll be able to cheer for as we lose 100 games a year. Most of our prospects wont be settled in until 2020.

No, it's so beneath some. They need to get over it. It's a game. We aren't wishing death on anyone, just bad baseball. There is nothing wrong with hating the Cubs and hoping they lose every game they ever play, especially if you live in Chicago and have seen the discrepancy in coverage the past several decades. The game threads seem to be more intense as well.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Dick Allen

[Bob Sacamano]

Are there any teams you dislike? If yes what are the reasons?

 

ALC teams since what they do on the field effects where we finish in the standings.

[witesoxfan]

No one ever said that, but White Sox fans who hate the Cubs aren't all meatheads. It's a pretty big rivalry, just check out tonight's attendance. The Sox don't draw that on a Wednesday night for Cleveland or KC or Minnesota or Detroit, teams some would say are the White Sox real rivals.

 

They are rivals and always will be. I would imagine most people living in the Chicago area know more Cubs fans than Sox fans and know more Cubs fans than fans of any other team. It's nice to stick it to them whenever there's a chance.

 

He literally said "Cubs fans hate the Sox and Sox fans hate the Cubs," as if we all hate each other. That is not true. Never said they weren't rivals, just said I don't hate them save 4 games a year.

[Dick Allen]

I think most people if they lived in the Chicago area could understand the chip many of us have on our shoulders concerning the Cubs. They always have received top billing. Back in the 1993 playoffs, when if you made the playoffs you were in the ALCS, the Sox made it. Of course Michael Jordan retires. Turn on the news, watch the sports, first story MJ, understandable, second story, Cubs fire Jim Lebvevre (sp). 3rd story, oh yeah the Sox are playing in the playoffs tonight.

[witesoxfan]

Are there any teams you dislike? If yes what are the reasons?

 

This is going to sound cliche, but I don't like whoever the Sox so happen to be playing on a particular night, and, when competitive, I don't like their closest competitor(s). That's really it. I don't hold biases or grudges against teams or their fans.

[Dick Allen]

He literally said "Cubs fans hate the Sox and Sox fans hate the Cubs," as if we all hate each other. That is not true. Never said they weren't rivals, just said I don't hate them save 4 games a year.

I think most diehard White Sox fans in the Chicago area hate the Cubs. Every single one I know does. I don't hate their fans. I have friends and family that love those schmucks. And the BS that Cubs fans don't care one bit about the White Sox is totally BS as well. Go to Wrigley when the Sox are there. You would think it was a WS game. Go to the vendors outside the park. No problem buying a Sox suck shirt or a fake 1983 t shirt jersey with SUX on it.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Dick Allen

[ptatc]

Billionaire owner of the team with the same mindset as a meathead fan.

You are way off base here. He competes with the Cubs for the almighty dollar. Ad revenues, TV/radio broadcasts etc. While the team isn't in direct competition for games and playoffs, the owners are certainly in competition for Chicago.

[SonofaRoache]

This is going to sound cliche, but I don't like whoever the Sox so happen to be playing on a particular night, and, when competitive, I don't like their closest competitor(s). That's really it. I don't hold biases or grudges against teams or their fans.

 

 

This is where our disagreement comes from. The Cubs are our closest competitor because they are in our city AND we compete for air time, revenue, business deals, casual fans, city dollars, news coverage, sponsors, concerts, etc. They may not be close in our divisional and wild card standings but those other factors I listed matter too. And yes Cubs and Sox fans don't like the other team and want to see them fail. I live by Wrigley and see the SUX shirts right now. And plenty of Cubs fans at work have been very vocal about our Sox being bad these last few years. Because I have to deal with their crap everyday, I will root for their team to lose. Does that mean I'm not supportive of my Sox first? No. I understand that if the Cubs suck my Sox benefit from it in many ways.

Edited July 26, 2017 by SonofaRoache

[southsider2k5]

This is where our disagreement comes from. The Cubs are our closest competitor because they are in our city AND we compete for air time, revenue, business deals, casual fans, city dollars, news coverage, sponsors, concerts, etc. They may not be close in our divisional and wild card standings but those other factors I listed matter too. And yes Cubs and Sox fans don't like the other team and want to see them fail. I live by Wrigley and see the SUX shirts right now. And plenty of Cubs fans at work have been very vocal about our Sox being bad these last few years. Because I have to deal with their crap everyday, I will root for their team to lose. Does that mean I'm not supportive of my Sox first? No. I understand that if the Cubs suck my Sox benefit from it in many ways.

 

Cubs and Sox fans hate each other, but we have to worry about losing Sox fans to the Cubs. Those two things don't go together.

[Dam8610]

This all reeks of being more worried about the Cubs being bad versus the White Sox being good, which is exactly what JR had to consider here. When this question comes up there is post after post about the Cubs and Cubs fans. I mean it can't be any clearer that the Sox fan base has a ton of Cubsession.

 

If you'd take a step back from your agenda for a moment, you'd realize that it has nothing to do with what you're saying, and everything to do with market share and business. From a business perspective, trading with the Cubs hurts the White Sox more than trading with, say, the Mariners, because of the market share they will lose as part of that trade. Thus, it is entirely reasonable for an owner to want to protect his business and therefore his investment by ensuring that he's levying additional value in the trade to compensate for that, a sort of "tax", if you will (and you should, because even Hoyer did last offseason). The reasoning here actually expands beyond baseball, rather than representing a "devolution" to the level of "meathead fans".

[Dam8610]

Cubs and Sox fans hate each other, but we have to worry about losing Sox fans to the Cubs. Those two things don't go together.

 

Because you're missing two key demographics in your analysis: casual fans and those who haven't yet formed an allegiance. Of course diehards aren't going to switch, they don't really factor into the considerations one would have when making a move such as this.

[jenksycat]

You are way off base here. He competes with the Cubs for the almighty dollar. Ad revenues, TV/radio broadcasts etc. While the team isn't in direct competition for games and playoffs, the owners are certainly in competition for Chicago.

 

People keep using this as an argument and I don't buy it. I'd love to be proven wrong but I don't see them competing in that way. Majority of fans are: Cubs fans or Sox fans. The % of people that are "I'm going to whichever team is doing well" is probably pennies in the grand scheme of revenue. The Sox have been and will continue to be "2nd" due to a variety of hostorical factors out of the teams control (neighborhood, old school national broadcast stuff, etc.) and no single trade or a couple bad years for the Cubs is going to change any of that.

 

My entire 'meathead' argument is solely based on not wanting to trade with them. Cheer against the Cubs all you want, but if the scouts & FO you trusted to be in charge of the team tell you "This trade with the Cubs is our best offer and will make the team better" you fuggin do it and none of the stupid "but I hate them Cubbies!!!" arguments should be anywhere near that decision.

[SoxAce]

I wonder what Thad Bosley thinks about this.

[SonofaRoache]

People keep using this as an argument and I don't buy it. I'd love to be proven wrong but I don't see them competing in that way. Majority of fans are: Cubs fans or Sox fans. The % of people that are "I'm going to whichever team is doing well" is probably pennies in the grand scheme of revenue. The Sox have been and will continue to be "2nd" due to a variety of hostorical factors out of the teams control (neighborhood, old school national broadcast stuff, etc.) and no single trade or a couple bad years for the Cubs is going to change any of that.

 

My entire 'meathead' argument is solely based on not wanting to trade with them. Cheer against the Cubs all you want, but if the scouts & FO you trusted to be in charge of the team tell you "This trade with the Cubs is our best offer and will make the team better" you fuggin do it and none of the stupid "but I hate them Cubbies!!!" arguments should be anywhere near that decision.

 

The Sox were once top dogs in Chicago. You know why they aren't right now? Because the cubs had much better advertising and WGN. Whether you want to believe it or not, these things matter.

[jenksycat]

The Sox were once top dogs in Chicago. You know why they aren't right now? Because the cubs had much better advertising and WGN. Whether you want to believe it or not, these things matter.

 

So you're basically confirming exactly what I said then?

[SonofaRoache]

Cubs and Sox fans hate each other, but we have to worry about losing Sox fans to the Cubs. Those two things don't go together.

 

 

Die hard cubs and sox fans hate each other.

 

Casual cubs and sox fans don't care and can switch at a moments notice

 

The thousands of people who move to chicago don't care about either team and view spend their time and money on the winning team

 

Children growing up will either support who their dad tells them too or pick the winning team.

 

Businesses will give their time and money to the winning team

 

Sponsors will give their time and money to the winning team

 

So when we talk about fan allegiance and marketing we are talking about everyone I mentioned except the die hards. I hope that helps.

[SonofaRoache]

So you're basically confirming exactly what I said then?

 

 

Not at all. If the Sox start winning for more than once or twice a decade over a 50 year period, they too can get back on the level of the Cubs. As they've done it before. The Cubs built their brand on fun experience outside the park and not on winning. The White Sox brand is built around winning. That's why I said if they would of had a four or five year run of success in the 80's, 90's 2000's or 2010's, they could have bridged the gap.

Edited July 26, 2017 by SonofaRoache

[ptatc]

People keep using this as an argument and I don't buy it. I'd love to be proven wrong but I don't see them competing in that way. Majority of fans are: Cubs fans or Sox fans. The % of people that are "I'm going to whichever team is doing well" is probably pennies in the grand scheme of revenue. The Sox have been and will continue to be "2nd" due to a variety of hostorical factors out of the teams control (neighborhood, old school national broadcast stuff, etc.) and no single trade or a couple bad years for the Cubs is going to change any of that.

 

My entire 'meathead' argument is solely based on not wanting to trade with them. Cheer against the Cubs all you want, but if the scouts & FO you trusted to be in charge of the team tell you "This trade with the Cubs is our best offer and will make the team better" you fuggin do it and none of the stupid "but I hate them Cubbies!!!" arguments should be anywhere near that decision.

It hurts JR's business to help the Cubs win. It's as simple as that. However as you can see he did come to the same conclusion you did. Take the better deal. It will still hurt his business. There are articles every about what trades were the best and worst between the teams. This trades will be discussed for decades if it helps the Cubs to win another world series.

 

[SonofaRoache]

So you're basically confirming exactly what I said then?

 

 

And as for your meathead argument about trading with them, how many Sox fans were mad about the trade? I don't know any Sox fans who are upset with that trade, not even fans here. The point is, if all deals are equal, you don't trade with rivals in your division, or rivals in your city that could use a player to win another world series in your backyard. Notice how I said all things being equal. The Cubs knew this as well and that's why they gave us a deal no one else would. YOU should appreciate that Sox Cubs rivalry because it led to us getting two really good prospects no other team would have given us.

Edited July 26, 2017 by SonofaRoache

[jenksycat]

Not at all. If the Sox start winning for more than once or twice a decade over a 50 year period, they too can get back on the level of the Cubs. As they've done it before. The Cubs built their brand on fun experience outside the park and not on winning. The White Sox brand is built around winning. That's why I said if they would of had a four or five year run of success in the 80's, 90's 2000's or 2010's, they could have bridged the gap.

 

Fine, if the Sox build a 50 year dynasty and open a ballpark in a neighborhood people want to visit for "the experience" then yes, they can take over Chicago from the Cubs. Will that ever happen in anyone here's lifetime? No, no chance.