Will Eloy Jimenez get to AA this year?

[Dam8610]

I do wonder if they won't be in the 2019 offseason FA pool just because of the names that are there, but we'll see.

 

Players like Machado and Harper don't come along often, especially in FA. If the Sox can get one of them, it will really kickstart this process.

[Rowand44]

There is not "plenty" of real talent that will be here early. There isn't even close to enough early talent to replace the talent we have lost over the last year, let alone enough to overcome the 10 extra games that this team was missing the playoffs by.

 

They will also not be spending s***ton of money until the team after the team is actually competitive.

 

I mean out of the four base players you listed for now, 3 of them have fairly significant questions marks associated with them. Abreu is literally the only guy in our line up that can be called anything close to a known quantity. Tim Anderson has regressed significantly. It is the personal problems off of the field, or did the league figure him out? Avi put up 3 incredible months so far, but is that really him? Moncada is another who could well be taking his lumps for a period of years. The rest of the roster early on is going to be guys that if everything goes right are 45's and 50's.

 

Past that?

 

The starting rotation is going to be weighted by Shields and a bunch of unknowns. The bullpen is going to be a horror movie hodgepodge of reclamations, the inexperienced, and rookies.

 

Literally everything has to go right for this team to be able to win 90 to 95 games in 2019. You are absolutely right that I don't see that happening. Looking at the rebuilds around baseball that have happened already, I don't see that as crazy.

The rotation at least on paper is going to consist of: Rodon, Kopech, Rey, Gio, Adams/Guerrero/Stephens/whoever all of which will most likely spend sometime in the bigs in 2018. That's 3 of our top 10 prospects just right there.

 

And of course all these guys have giant ?'s that's how this is going to be, nobody is arguing that. That doesn't mean Moncada can't be a superstar by then or Anderson got his s*** together or one of Gillaspie, Cordell or Delmonico have become solid major leaguers. Maybe Leury and Avi are for real. They don't need 9 superstars by then.

 

I'm honestly not even going to speculate on the bullpen yet. There's a lot of our minor league pitchers that might be in there at that point and if anything the Sox have proven they can take some random ass guys and make them good relievers.

 

And I couldn't disagree more about free agency. They're going to be players in the 2019 field, I'm not saying they're going to bring in Manny or Bryce but they're going to start dipping their feet in the pool to bring in some guys who can be part of the long term plan. If they see the arrow starting to go way up on Rey and Gio and Moncada and Kopech by the end of '18 and think Eloy is going to be ready at the beginning of '19 they're going to start filling in some holes to make that team competitive.

 

It's not ridiculous that you don't see this stuff happening, it's ridiculous that you keep running around telling everyone there's absolutely 0 chance they could be a contender in 2019. I'm certainly not betting on it but that rotation has a chance to be phenomenal and who the hell knows what can happen if that is indeed the case.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

The rotation at least on paper is going to consist of: Rodon, Kopech, Rey, Gio, Adams/Guerrero/Stephens/whoever all of which will most likely spend sometime in the bigs in 2018. That's 3 of our top 10 prospects just right there.

 

And of course all these guys have giant ?'s that's how this is going to be, nobody is arguing that. That doesn't mean Moncada can't be a superstar by then or Anderson got his s*** together or one of Gillaspie, Cordell or Delmonico have become solid major leaguers. Maybe Leury and Avi are for real. They don't need 9 superstars by then.

 

I'm honestly not even going to speculate on the bullpen yet. There's a lot of our minor league pitchers that might be in there at that point and if anything the Sox have proven they can take some random ass guys and make them good relievers.

 

And I couldn't disagree more about free agency. They're going to be players in the 2019 field, I'm not saying they're going to bring in Manny or Bryce but they're going to start dipping their feet in the pool to bring in some guys who can be part of the long term plan. If they see the arrow starting to go way up on Rey and Gio and Moncada and Kopech by the end of '18 and think Eloy is going to be ready at the beginning of '19 they're going to start filling in some holes to make that team competitive.

 

It's not ridiculous that you don't see this stuff happening, it's ridiculous that you keep running around telling everyone there's absolutely 0 chance they could be a contender in 2019. I'm certainly not betting on it but that rotation has a chance to be phenomenal and who the hell knows what can happen if that is indeed the case.

 

Add a 22/23 year old Brady Singer to the 2019 starting rotation and the sky's the limit with that staff.

 

[BaconOnAStick]

It would be really stupid to have a player of Moncada's potential just wasting away in pre-arb for a team trying to lose. Finish this season as poorly as possible, I can get behind that, but winning at the major league level becomes a priority again the day this travesty of a season ends.

 

I'm not saying trade everyone for ML players, or even that they should trade any of their prospects at all, but they should make an effort. Gillaspie, Delmonico, Cordell, Polo, Clarkin, Guerrero all have opportunities to make an impact as soon as Opening Day, and they have so much payroll flexibility that they can be active in free agency without hamstringing their future. If they really decide to tank 2018 too my opinion of this rebuild will crater.

[Chicago White Sox]

By the end of 2018, some combination of Rodon, Lopez, Giolito, Kopech, Adams, Guerrero, & Stephens will be in the rotation or will be pushing for spots. By 2019 Burdi should be back and in the pen and hopefully Fulmer as well. Therefore, the 2019 pitching staff has a chance to be pretty good. No guarantees obviously, but plenty of talent will be there by then.

 

The position side is a much bigger question mark, but there's a chance that guys like Jimenez & Burger move fast and are up by early 2019. Abreu could still be around plus you should have better versions of Anderson & Moncada. And who knows, there could be some surprises with the fringier guys in AAA right now and potentially a free agent signing or two.

 

I think .500 is a somewhat realistic goal for 2019.

[Chicago White Sox]

It would be really stupid to have a player of Moncada's potential just wasting away in pre-arb for a team trying to lose. Finish this season as poorly as possible, I can get behind that, but winning at the major league level becomes a priority again the day this travesty of a season ends.

 

I'm not saying trade everyone for ML players, or even that they should trade any of their prospects at all, but they should make an effort. Gillaspie, Delmonico, Cordell, Polo, Clarkin, Guerrero all have opportunities to make an impact as soon as Opening Day, and they have so much payroll flexibility that they can be active in free agency without hamstringing their future. If they really decide to tank 2018 too my opinion of this rebuild will crater.

What? Why would tanking in 2018 cause the rebuild to crater?

[witesoxfan]

It would be really stupid to have a player of Moncada's potential just wasting away in pre-arb for a team trying to lose. Finish this season as poorly as possible, I can get behind that, but winning at the major league level becomes a priority again the day this travesty of a season ends.

 

I'm not saying trade everyone for ML players, or even that they should trade any of their prospects at all, but they should make an effort. Gillaspie, Delmonico, Cordell, Polo, Clarkin, Guerrero all have opportunities to make an impact as soon as Opening Day, and they have so much payroll flexibility that they can be active in free agency without hamstringing their future. If they really decide to tank 2018 too my opinion of this rebuild will crater.

 

Well you are going to be very disappointed next season then.

[BaconOnAStick]

What? Why would tanking in 2018 cause the rebuild to crater?

Because the nice part about using a Hall of Famer and a pair of really valuable assets to kickstart your rebuild is you can acquire 3 years worth of prospects in 8 months. The Sox don't need to suck for a half decade to build a talent pipeline, they already have it.

[Chicago White Sox]

Because the nice part about using a Hall of Famer and a pair of really valuable assets to kickstart your rebuild is you can acquire 3 years worth of prospects in 8 months. The Sox don't need to suck for a half decade to build a talent pipeline, they already have it.

Out of the eight high-end guys we received for the three players you mentioned, only four of them will realistically be up in 2018 and those guys will likely experience growing pains. The rest of the roster is going to be plagued with question marks. I honestly have no idea how you think this team could be competitive next year.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Chicago White Sox

[southsider2k5]

The rotation at least on paper is going to consist of: Rodon, Kopech, Rey, Gio, Adams/Guerrero/Stephens/whoever all of which will most likely spend sometime in the bigs in 2018. That's 3 of our top 10 prospects just right there.

 

And of course all these guys have giant ?'s that's how this is going to be, nobody is arguing that. That doesn't mean Moncada can't be a superstar by then or Anderson got his s*** together or one of Gillaspie, Cordell or Delmonico have become solid major leaguers. Maybe Leury and Avi are for real. They don't need 9 superstars by then.

 

I'm honestly not even going to speculate on the bullpen yet. There's a lot of our minor league pitchers that might be in there at that point and if anything the Sox have proven they can take some random ass guys and make them good relievers.

 

And I couldn't disagree more about free agency. They're going to be players in the 2019 field, I'm not saying they're going to bring in Manny or Bryce but they're going to start dipping their feet in the pool to bring in some guys who can be part of the long term plan. If they see the arrow starting to go way up on Rey and Gio and Moncada and Kopech by the end of '18 and think Eloy is going to be ready at the beginning of '19 they're going to start filling in some holes to make that team competitive.

 

It's not ridiculous that you don't see this stuff happening, it's ridiculous that you keep running around telling everyone there's absolutely 0 chance they could be a contender in 2019. I'm certainly not betting on it but that rotation has a chance to be phenomenal and who the hell knows what can happen if that is indeed the case.

 

That takes a lot of ifs. A ton of them. Way too many to have any real chance at happening. Prospects take time. Especially ones who are in the bottom levels of the minors. I think a lot of people are prospect drunk right now.

[Rowand44]

I mentioned one prospect below aa in that whole post so ya, lower minors indeed. Whatever, this argument isn't going anywhere. You can call me prospect drunk all you want because I think there's more than a 0 percent chance they're good in 2019 and I'll continue to think you've hated this whole thing from the beginning and are just going to keep rolling with that.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Rowand44

[southsider2k5]

I mentioned one prospect below aa in that whole post so ya, lower minors indeed. Whatever, this argument isn't going anywhere. You can call me prospect drunk all you want because I think there's more than a 0 percent chance they're good in 2019 and I'll continue to think you've hated this whole thing from the beginning and are just going to keep rolling with that.

 

So lets hear it then. HOw many games do the Sox win in 19 and what are their playoff odds?

[witesoxfan]

So lets hear it then. HOw many games do the Sox win in 19 and what are their playoff odds?

 

81 games, 10%

[oldsox]

By the end of 2018, some combination of Rodon, Lopez, Giolito, Kopech, Adams, Guerrero, & Stephens will be in the rotation or will be pushing for spots. By 2019 Burdi should be back and in the pen and hopefully Fulmer as well. Therefore, the 2019 pitching staff has a chance to be pretty good. No guarantees obviously, but plenty of talent will be there by then.

 

The position side is a much bigger question mark, but there's a chance that guys like Jimenez & Burger move fast and are up by early 2019. Abreu could still be around plus you should have better versions of Anderson & Moncada. And who knows, there could be some surprises with the fringier guys in AAA right now and potentially a free agent signing or two.

 

I think .500 is a somewhat realistic goal for 2019.

This would not surprise me, since Sox will not lose a first round draft pick.

[witesoxfan]

Not trying to beat a dead horse, but this thread outlines some potential lineups the Sox with which the Sox may open the year. If you don't think that team is going to lose 100 games based solely on the lineup, then you have another thing coming.

[BaconOnAStick]

A .500 season would be really encouraging. Much better than another trainwreck year.

[witesoxfan]

A .500 season would be really encouraging. Much better than another trainwreck year.

 

They won't be anywhere close to .500.

[BaconOnAStick]

They won't be anywhere close to .500.

How can you say this so assuredly? The Twins are no better now than the Sox will be next year and they are 1 game below .500. The Brewers began the year a cruel joke of a roster and here they are, it's almost August, battling for first with the "juggernaut" Cubs.

 

If you are this pessimistic about Moncada and the arms then I don't see how you could support the trades made over the last 8 months. You are basically saying they gave away Chris Sale and Adam Eaton for nothing.

[mac9001]

How can you say this so assuredly? The Twins are no better now than the Sox will be next year and they are 1 game below .500. The Brewers began the year a cruel joke of a roster and here they are, it's almost August, battling for first with the "juggernaut" Cubs.

 

If you are this pessimistic about Moncada and the arms then I don't see how you could support the trades made over the last 8 months. You are basically saying they gave away Chris Sale and Adam Eaton for nothing.

 

You trade Abreu, Avi reverts, Moncada flops and we probably don't have a single legitimate major league hitter on the team next year. In terms of the distribution of what's likely to happen next year I'd be more comfortable being pessimistic than optomistic.

 

[winninguglyin83]

.500?

 

in 2019?

 

They'll be lucky to be .400

Edited July 29, 2017 by winninguglyin83

[Jake]

If the team has Lopez, Giolito, and Rodon all pitching to potential (a hypothetical posed by another poster), the team won't lose 100 games no matter how bad everyone else is. Kopech will be knocking on door next year if he starts well in AAA, too.

[Jake]

2018: $4M

2019 Team Option: $4.6M ($1.2M buyout)

2020 Team Option: $5.2M ($1.2M buyout)

2021 Mutual Option: $6M

 

there are worse ways to spend 5.2M if they choose to buyout in '19

 

FYI: I don't recall all details, but Jones getting elbow surgery reduced the value of his contract. I know for certain that his pay in one year goes to league minimum and I think his team option in another year is cut in half.

[steveno89]

.500?

 

in 2019?

 

They'll be lucky to be .400

 

We should be significantly better than a .400 team in 2019, ideally getting back to around .500 baseball. The record matters less than seeing clear progress as we transition young players to the majors.

[BaconOnAStick]

If young players are doing well in the majors the team will win games. The transition year is a myth.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Lots of good baseball discussion here. Optimism vs. Realism( pessimism?) . Personally I can see both sides as I think most of us can. My head tells me to go with realism. Prospects take time , some don't even make it. Imagine ss2k5 being wrong and we aren't even winning anything by 2020. That side of the argument hasn't even been discussed. I mean basically you are all saying there will be success and it's just a matter of when.

 

Hell Moncada already worries me. As good as his eye is he does seem to be too passive and since he does have such a good eye and swings at strikes why is his swing and miss so prevalent? He also gets called out a lot . He needs to earn some pitches are too close to take and are there holes in his swing ? Even with a guy like Davidson K'ing as much as he does and not walking much I am generally pleased with his power and batting average hovering around .240 compared with how hopeless he was in the minors.

 

Anyway I am a sucker for young players and my heart often dictates how much I see them succeeding, This is just going to be a tough road to hoe and the roster will be changing constantly. Guess what I am trying to say is hope for the best prepare for the worst and enjoy the roller coaster ride along the way as much as you can.