Wall Street Journal story on Sox rebuild...

[Lip Man 1]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/for-the-white-...069920?mod=e2fb

 

The biggest thing that caught my eye was this paragraph:

 

"In Hahn’s ideal world, the White Sox might have gotten here sooner. He acknowledged that there have been other moments where he and Williams proposed a total rebuild, as the team heads toward its fifth straight losing season.

[southsider2k5]

Now the only thing to do is to sit back and wait for the most obvious post ever.

[Dick Allen]

Now the only thing to do is to sit back and wait for the most obvious post ever.

45 years of failed ownership......

[steveno89]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/for-the-white-...069920?mod=e2fb

 

The biggest thing that caught my eye was this paragraph:

 

"In Hahn’s ideal world, the White Sox might have gotten here sooner. He acknowledged that there have been other moments where he and Williams proposed a total rebuild, as the team heads toward its fifth straight losing season.

 

He's likely referring to a rumored quality trade proposal for Samardzija the Sox received, but the decision was made to go for it.

 

Hahn was rumored to be pushing to rebuild, but was shot down.

[Southwest Sider]

I can't read the article, but the title suggests that the Sox may be laying a new blueprint for baseball. If it all works out, and we achieve at least one World Series victory, we will look back at this as one of the most amazing rebuilds ever, given the incredibly quick turnaround for our farm system. As everyone knows, a turnaround like this is quite probably not possible if the White Sox didn't shrewdly sign elite players to reasonable contracts. The Sox needed a lot to go their way for this to even happen though. Most notably is that Sale's arm was able to stay intact throughout his White Sox career.

 

It is true that the White Sox utterly failed to surround their elite players with good enough players. This is an issue with the farm system and the development of guys, as well as the inability to sign impact free agents. With the farm system, it is the hope of the fanbase that money that used to pay for the MLB payroll is being used to enrich the farm development team. Bringing in guys who can develop players and teach them what it takes to be an MLB contributor are absolutely necessary, and if it means paying them the big bucks, it is absolutely worth it as it could pay incredible dividends down the road. Look at teams like the Red Sox and Cubs. When almost ALL of your top prospects actually pan out in some way, shape, or form, thats not just good luck. That's having an elite development team working with these players each step of the way. It is the hope that the White Sox are identifying people like this, and aggressively adding them to the team. If not, we could still be looking at a normal prospect situation for most teams: "We will be happy if 50% of our top prospects actually pan out". If the White Sox fail to have elite talent development people, their shots of making this rebuild a success will be drastically diminished, in my opinion. There are signs of progress in that area. Despite some of their recent struggles, there are signs that players like Saladino, Leury Garcia, Yolmer Sanchez, Omar Narvaez, Matt Davidson, and Tim Anderson could be somewhat valuable MLB contributors in their careers. These are all, for the most part, completely homegrown players, or players who spent some time in the system. It is a good sign that the team can turn meh prospects into decent players, and actually help Davidson hit his apparent MLB ceiling. This trend will need to continue.

 

If you are able to hit on most of your position player prospects, hit and get lucky healthwise with your pitching prospects and parlay the bright future of the team into luring a few big name free agents to the South Side, then we have a real shot of being the happiest we have ever been as Sox fans.

 

Also, as an aside, as much as it would suck for Rick Renteria to have it happen twice, I hope the Sox don't pass on a better option if one becomes available. Mike Scioscia's contract ends after the next season and I think it would behoove the White Sox to add him. The man is a proven baseball winner, and I highly doubt he will want to stay with the Angels given that their upper management doesn't seem interested in giving him a baseball team he can win with. I definitely don't think the Angels problems are because of Mike Scioscia. Adding him would add a manager with a World Series winning pedigree, one that could take a young, incredibly talented team to the next level. The White Sox cannot afford to shortchange this rebuild and this team at all, and if it means hurting some feelings by dismissing Rick Renteria to add a manager like Scioscia, I think you absolutely have to do it.

 

[chitownsportsfan]

pay walled, care to copy and paste a few of the key points, that's allowed under fair use.

[chetkincaid]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/for-the-white-...069920?mod=e2fb

 

The biggest thing that caught my eye was this paragraph:

 

"In Hahn’s ideal world, the White Sox might have gotten here sooner. He acknowledged that there have been other moments where he and Williams proposed a total rebuild, as the team heads toward its fifth straight losing season.

 

 

I've always said that Kenny Williams was unfairly blamed for the team constantly being in "win now" mode. I think KW took the blame, but it was Reinsdorf who didn't want to tear it down because JR was afraid of lost revenue from low ticket sales. If KW and RH are given orders to put a winner on the team and told not to trade veterans, what could they do? Reinsdorf is the owner. I bet Robin Ventura was a JR hire too.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Chet Kincaid

[South Side Fireworks Man]

I've always said that Kenny Williams was unfairly blamed for the team constantly being in "win now" mode. I think KW took the blame, but it was Reinsdorf who didn't want to tear it down because JR was afraid of lost revenue from low ticket sales. If KW and RH are given orders to put a winner on the team and told not to trade veterans, what could they do? Reinsdorf is the owner. I bet Robin Ventura was a JR hire too.

I think you're probably correct on all points.

[JPR]

Even the evil Keith law can longer deny our farm systems' greatness!

[caulfield12]

What did Law say now?

[JPR]

He's a hater I'm just saying even that east coast biased writer can't hate on us anymore. Just read an article on espn about a 2020 White Sox/Scrubs World Series and espn provided links showing us as the #2 system in all of baseball. But we are #1 because we have 2 of the top 5 prospects and 3 of the top 11. Can't hate. We are legit. I just can't wait for Cooper to work with Kopech, Lopez, Fulmer, etc. LHP were once a weakness in our system but we have like 4 now in our top 30 according to MLB.com and Rodon is a freak of nature he's going to be like Quintana on HGH.

Edited July 26, 2017 by JPR

[southsider2k5]

pay walled, care to copy and paste a few of the key points, that's allowed under fair use.

 

Go to their twitter and use the WSJ's click thru and you can find it for free there. it is what I did.

[thedoctor]

i don't see it as a "new" blueprint, just one others have tried with less valuable and volume of assets.

[witesoxfan]

I can't read the article, but the title suggests that the Sox may be laying a new blueprint for baseball. If it all works out, and we achieve at least one World Series victory, we will look back at this as one of the most amazing rebuilds ever, given the incredibly quick turnaround for our farm system. As everyone knows, a turnaround like this is quite probably not possible if the White Sox didn't shrewdly sign elite players to reasonable contracts. The Sox needed a lot to go their way for this to even happen though. Most notably is that Sale's arm was able to stay intact throughout his White Sox career.

 

It is true that the White Sox utterly failed to surround their elite players with good enough players. This is an issue with the farm system and the development of guys, as well as the inability to sign impact free agents. With the farm system, it is the hope of the fanbase that money that used to pay for the MLB payroll is being used to enrich the farm development team. Bringing in guys who can develop players and teach them what it takes to be an MLB contributor are absolutely necessary, and if it means paying them the big bucks, it is absolutely worth it as it could pay incredible dividends down the road. Look at teams like the Red Sox and Cubs. When almost ALL of your top prospects actually pan out in some way, shape, or form, thats not just good luck. That's having an elite development team working with these players each step of the way. It is the hope that the White Sox are identifying people like this, and aggressively adding them to the team. If not, we could still be looking at a normal prospect situation for most teams: "We will be happy if 50% of our top prospects actually pan out". If the White Sox fail to have elite talent development people, their shots of making this rebuild a success will be drastically diminished, in my opinion. There are signs of progress in that area. Despite some of their recent struggles, there are signs that players like Saladino, Leury Garcia, Yolmer Sanchez, Omar Narvaez, Matt Davidson, and Tim Anderson could be somewhat valuable MLB contributors in their careers. These are all, for the most part, completely homegrown players, or players who spent some time in the system. It is a good sign that the team can turn meh prospects into decent players, and actually help Davidson hit his apparent MLB ceiling. This trend will need to continue.

 

If you are able to hit on most of your position player prospects, hit and get lucky healthwise with your pitching prospects and parlay the bright future of the team into luring a few big name free agents to the South Side, then we have a real shot of being the happiest we have ever been as Sox fans.

 

Also, as an aside, as much as it would suck for Rick Renteria to have it happen twice, I hope the Sox don't pass on a better option if one becomes available. Mike Scioscia's contract ends after the next season and I think it would behoove the White Sox to add him. The man is a proven baseball winner, and I highly doubt he will want to stay with the Angels given that their upper management doesn't seem interested in giving him a baseball team he can win with. I definitely don't think the Angels problems are because of Mike Scioscia. Adding him would add a manager with a World Series winning pedigree, one that could take a young, incredibly talented team to the next level. The White Sox cannot afford to shortchange this rebuild and this team at all, and if it means hurting some feelings by dismissing Rick Renteria to add a manager like Scioscia, I think you absolutely have to do it.

 

Not sure about Scioscia, but this is a great post.

[Real]

The sox are well known around baseball for being perennial failures.

[jenksycat]

i don't see it as a "new" blueprint, just one others have tried with less valuable and volume of assets.

 

Yeah the Sox were in a position I don't really recall any other rebuilding team in: multiple high-end assets (both elite talent + insanely cheap contracts) and completely rebuilt the farm system in

[Thad Bosley]

Now the only thing to do is to sit back and wait for the most obvious post ever.

Even the Wall Street Journal is onto what the "obvious" obstacle/hurdle has been that's made Sox success so elusive over the years.

[caulfield12]

Scioscia with a rebuilding team filled with youngsters....?

 

That and the fact he wants to have total control and micromanages everyone to death, his team...front office, ownership group.

 

Need some younger blood IMO.

[LittleHurt05]

45 years of failed ownership......

 

Failed is harsh. 45 years of sub-par ownership is more realistic

[Bananarchy]

Failed is harsh. 45 years of sub-par ownership is more realistic

Agreed. Far be it for me to defend ownership because I sure as hell had been frustrated with them for the better part of a decade before recent events, but failed owners don't have championships.

 

You can't take a real failed owner like Mikhail Prokhorov and compare him to Jerry Reinsdorf.

[Thad Bosley]

Failed is harsh. 45 years of sub-par ownership is more realistic

Zero playoff appearances in the '60s.

 

Zero playoff appearances in the '70s.

 

One playoff appearance, only one series, only one win, in the '80s.

 

One playoff appearance, only one series, only two wins, in the '90s.

 

THREE playoff appearance"s" in the '00s, with one World Series Championship; the other two appearances comprising one series each and only one win between the two.

 

Zero playoff appearances in the '10s. Back to that again, the zero playoff appearance business.

 

Failed ownership, or sub-par ownership? Take your pick. Neither has been ideal whatsoever for our beleaguered fan base.

[LittleHurt05]

Zero playoff appearances in the '60s.

 

Zero playoff appearances in the '70s.

 

One playoff appearance, only one series, only one win, in the '80s.

 

One playoff appearance, only one series, only two wins, in the '90s.

 

THREE playoff appearance"s" in the '00s, with one World Series Championship; the other two appearances comprising one series each and only one win between the two.

 

Zero playoff appearances in the '10s. Back to that again, the zero playoff appearance business.

 

Failed ownership, or sub-par ownership? Take your pick. Neither has been ideal whatsoever for our beleaguered fan base.

 

Look around the league and the four major sports though, how many owners have actually been great? Owners don't get fired and the majority suck. But that's capitalism and JR is going nowhere.

 

I've been one if the biggest critics of JR on this site. His problem was never being cheap, the Sox have spent compared to their revenue, it was always just his blind loyalty. Now that he finally bought in to the rebuild, just sit back and enjoy for a little. You can be head of the Anti -JR movement as soon as it meets again

 

[Thad Bosley]

Look around the league and the four major sports though, how many owners have actually been great? Owners don't get fired and the majority suck. But that's capitalism and JR is going nowhere.

 

I've been one if the biggest critics of JR on this site. His problem was never being cheap, the Sox have spent compared to their revenue, it was always just his blind loyalty. Now that he finally bought in to the rebuild, just sit back and enjoy for a little. You can be head of the Anti -JR movement as soon as it meets again

I hear you. I would say, though, my criticism of Sox ownership expands beyond the disastrous Reinsdorf years. I've said it before and I'll say it again: the next successful White Sox owner will be the first successful White Sox owner. I mean, good lord, it's almost hard to believe this charter American League franchise could have been so snake-bitten from an ownership perspective since Day One. From Old Man Comiskey to Reinsdorf, none of them have a record of achievement to be proud of.

 

As for Reinsdorf, according to today's Wall Street Journal article, apparently Reinsdorf's baseball people, Hahn & Williams, proposed this rebuild business long before the team finally embarked on the process. The owner apparently rejected those proposals, and then 2010-2016 happened. This is the kind of decision-making our fan base has had to suffer through from baseball's "longest tenured owner".

 

So instead of enjoying the "rebuild" as you suggest I do during the 2010-2016 timeframe, I, like you, instead had to endure the horrific baseball we saw these past several years before the baseball guys were finally able to convince the stubborn owner to move in the advisable direction of a rebuild.

 

As for the rebuild itself, I am certainly encouraged by the moves Hahn has made. I am excited about the cadre of elite prospects who have entered the organization. What else do I have to get excited about these days as a White Sox fan? And there's a lot more losing coming our way on top of all of the losing we've all witnessed these past five years, for sure, and certainly since 2005.

 

But, as is always the case as a White Sox fan, you just continue to hope for the best. And for a new owner who might just turn the tide on the fortunes of the organization, once and for all.

[spiderman]

Yeah the Sox were in a position I don't really recall any other rebuilding team in: multiple high-end assets (both elite talent + insanely cheap contracts) and completely rebuilt the farm system in

 

Correct, each re-build will be different. Not every team is going to have a top 5 pitcher (Sale), another #2 type starter like Quintana, and a legitimate lead-off hitter in his prime like Adam Eaton.

 

The Cubs used a combination of moves - great trades - acquiring Rizzo and Arrieta, not missing on high draft picks, and then dipping into free agency to add top end starters to their rotation. They were able to trade for Russell so it was really a combination to bring together their core.

 

Ultimately, every team has the same options (trades, drafting, free agency), but it just depends on the current MLB roster when the rebuild begins and how successful a team is with the key moves they make etc. That can either make it a quicker re-build or turn it into a decade's worth of losing.

[Bananarchy]

So instead of enjoying the "rebuild" as you suggest I do during the 2010-2016 timeframe, I, like you, instead had to endure the horrific baseball we saw these past several years before the baseball guys were finally able to convince the stubborn owner to move in the advisable direction of a rebuild.

This is really an interesting development. A number of people on here (I was not one of them) cited JR's age as a reason we didn't rebuild. It sure looks like they were right. I guess it's not hard to believe an owner in his 70s doesn't want to rebuild.