Who Should Be In The Lineup Next Year?

[Quin]

They all were brought up within the organization within your time frame and made their debuts within your time frame. I don't disagree that the development has been bad but they have had some players

 

 

I'm also not advocating bringing up Eloy, that is ridiculous

 

Alexei, Abreu both should probably count. Both were immediate impacts, but Alexei was an under the radar steal (I still say he got robbed of a GG and if not for Longoria being an instant star he would have been ROY).

[Lillian]

I have a suggestion and request for you, "Alexeihyeess". You appear to be quite convinced that this patient approach is not the best one. Could we try a compromise?

Instead of the team giving up on winning until 2020, what would you think about giving the young prospects one more year, and then executing your aggressive suggestion to go for it, in 2019, instead of next year. Think in terms of at least a couple more very high draft picks, this June and next year. Then consider whom you would recommend for the roster in 2019. Please also add your favorite realistic free agent acquisitions, keeping in mind that you could acquire them in 2019, as well as next year.

 

I'd be very interested to see what that might look like, and to discover whether, or not, you might find it more feasible than going for it next season. I'd look forward to reading it.

Thanks.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Lillian

[tray]

Position players at the start of 2018 wll pretty much be the same as they are now.

Davidson, Anderson Moncada , Abreu- the infield third to first.

Outfield Leury Garcia, Willy Garcia, Avi Garcia. Engel.in the outfield.

Narvaez and Smith catching.

Saladino and Yolmer as utility players.

----------

If any of the outfield prospects are raking in the minors, I would not hesitate bringing them up next year, even early in the season.

The Sox need to know what they really have with some of these players and then use that information to help decide what positions to look for in the 2018 Draft and in future trades.

I have no idea if some of these guys will be close to major league ready next year, but if they seem close, I would have them up so fast their heads would spin.

 

We are done tanking after the end of this season. We will probably not compete for the Division in 2018 or 2019, but we should at least be on the road out of holy he11. This tanking business is too painful to endure for another season. I hate to lose and just can't abide by that cheap strategy much longer.

[greg775]

He came into today with a -0.2 WAR. With his 20 HRs he still has a OPS of .763. He plays marginal defense and will be 27 when the season opens in 2017.

 

He has been included in many of the potential lineups in this thread for next season, so I have zero idea where you claim "no interest in him being in the lineup next year"

 

You make things up to take things to the extreme, but it's simply false.

Cmon Tony. Nobody's high on Davidson like they are those recent acquisitions. Like I said if Eloy hit 30 homers and hit .230 like Davidson is gonna do there'd be a proverbial parade on here. I don't care really about anything right now with Davidson cept 30 home runs. He should play enough to reach that mark and cmon 30 home runs? He should be talked about as much as any prospect if he bangs 30 homers.

[steveno89]

Cmon Tony. Nobody's high on Davidson like they are those recent acquisitions. Like I said if Eloy hit 30 homers and hit .230 like Davidson is gonna do there'd be a proverbial parade on here. I don't care really about anything right now with Davidson cept 30 home runs. He should play enough to reach that mark and cmon 30 home runs? He should be talked about as much as any prospect if he bangs 30 homers.

 

Home runs ignore a larger statistical examination of the player. Davidson does not hit for average, draw walks or play decent defense. Should he get the chance during a rebuild? Of course, but I'm not expecting him to be a part of our longer term future at this point.

[BaconOnAStick]

I have a suggestion and request for you, "Alexeihyeess". You appear to be quite convinced that this patient approach is not the best one. Could we try a compromise?

Instead of the team giving up on winning until 2020, what would you think about giving the young prospects one more year, and then executing your aggressive suggestion to go for it, in 2019, instead of next year. Think in terms of at least a couple more very high draft picks, this June and next year. Then consider whom you would recommend for the roster in 2019. Please also add your favorite realistic free agent acquisitions, keeping in mind that you could acquire them in 2019, as well as next year.

 

I'd be very interested to see what that might look like, and to discover whether, or not, you might find it more feasible than going for it next season. I'd look forward to reading it.

Thanks.

I have no problem with the patient approach or rebuilding from scratch the way they are. I just think the goal should gradually shift starting this offseason from intentionally losing and sabotaging the ML squad at every turn to a more win now mindset. Not overnight, not over the course of one season, and not at the expense of the talent they've acquired already. I cant make that clear enough. No trading Eloy Jimenez for a rental, that is not what I want to do.

 

I just think after they lock in the high draft pick this year they should start looking at trying to compete sooner rather than later, and its better for them long-term if they finish around .500 next year than if they lose 100 games in 2018. As of the conclusion of this season it will be more important for the young players they have now to be successful together at the major league level than it will be to keep stockpiling minor leaguers.

 

Moustakas is the guy I'd really like to sign, but really only if he were to take a 4 year deal (and we wont know how feasible that is until the offseason). He just makes too much sense, and the Sox may be able to score him cheap while everyone else has their eyes ahead to the next year. Harper and Machado will not be going to the White Sox, anyone holding out hope for that is out of their minds.

[steveno89]

I have no problem with the patient approach or rebuilding from scratch the way they are. I just think the goal should gradually shift starting this offseason from intentionally losing and sabotaging the ML squad at every turn to a more win now mindset. Not overnight, not over the course of one season, and not at the expense of the talent they've acquired already. I cant make that clear enough. No trading Eloy Jimenez for a rental, that is not what I want to do.

 

I just think after they lock in the high draft pick this year they should start looking at trying to compete sooner rather than later, and its better for them long-term if they finish around .500 next year than if they lose 100 games in 2018. As of the conclusion of this season it will be more important for the young players they have now to be successful together at the major league level than it will be to keep stockpiling minor leaguers.

 

Moustakas is the guy I'd really like to sign, but really only if he were to take a 4 year deal (and we wont know how feasible that is until the offseason). He just makes too much sense, and the Sox may be able to score him cheap while everyone else has their eyes ahead to the next year. Harper and Machado will not be going to the White Sox, anyone holding out hope for that is out of their minds.

 

I respect your opinion, but you will very likely be disappointed if you think the sox are going for a shorter term rebuild. The intention will not be to lose in 2018, rather the losses will come as a part of the rebuild as we give younger, unproven players a chance. We simply will not have enough MLB talent or depth to contend for the division, which is ok to admit.

 

Signing a free agent like moustakas would be a terrible idea and waste of money. Trust in the process and be patient. 2019 should be better and 2020 we should be ready to go.

 

[greg775]

At least we are at a point where you admit you're OK ignoring facts and data.

I seem to remember people on this board saying Frazier had a lot of value on the trade market with his .202 BA. I'm just saying this euphoria over the "name" prospects can be sickening when a guy like Davidson in limited at bats "could" still whack 30 home runs. I don't care about any secondary stats. I sure hope he gets to 30 to see what people are saying about him.

You can't tell me if Robert, Rutherford, Burger ever approach 30 homers in the majors they won't get way more love than Davidson. How many people on here even consider Davidson a decent prospect right now? Not many. But 30 homer production in limited at bats suggests he should be hyped as well.

[steveno89]

I seem to remember people on this board saying Frazier had a lot of value on the trade market with his .202 BA. I'm just saying this euphoria over the "name" prospects can be sickening when a guy like Davidson in limited at bats "could" still whack 30 home runs. I don't care about any secondary stats. I sure hope he gets to 30 to see what people are saying about him.

You can't tell me if Robert, Rutherford, Burger ever approach 30 homers in the majors they won't get way more love than Davidson. How many people on here even consider Davidson a decent prospect right now? Not many. But 30 homer production in limited at bats suggests he should be hyped as well.

 

You are ignoring any of davidsons other stats outside of home runs. A .291 OBP is not good. He does not hit for average, does not get on base and is a below average defensive player.

 

I will criticize any of our prospects if they statistically aren't up to par.

[greg775]

Home runs ignore a larger statistical examination of the player. Davidson does not hit for average, draw walks or play decent defense. Should he get the chance during a rebuild? Of course, but I'm not expecting him to be a part of our longer term future at this point.

Proves my point. Let's say Burger is the identical same player his first season with the Sox. Exact same. You can't tell me you wouldn't be ecstatic with Burger cause of the hype.

[steveno89]

Proves my point. Let's say Burger is the identical same player his first season with the Sox. Exact same. You can't tell me you wouldn't be ecstatic with Burger cause of the hype.

 

Burger is 21 years old right now and projects to hit for solid average, play passable defense and have good pop. I expect more from him than we get from Davidson. Hopefully he delivers.

 

Davidson is a 26 year old who is currently a replacement level player. Outside of home runs he is not a very good all around player right now, so yes, I will criticize him.

 

Your evaluation is totally wrong and is not how a front office views talent in the modern MLB.

 

 

[greg775]

You are ignoring any of davidsons other stats outside of home runs. A .291 OBP is not good. He does not hit for average, does not get on base and is a below average defensive player.

 

I will criticize any of our prospects if they statistically aren't up to par.

It's his first shot at the big leagues for gosh sakes. First shot. If he hits 30 home runs he should be rookie of the year candidate.

[greg775]

Burger is 21 years old right now and projects to hit for solid average, play passable defense and have good pop. I expect more from him than we get from Davidson. Hopefully he delivers.

 

Davidson is a 26 year old who is currently a replacement level player. Outside of home runs he is not a very good all around player right now, so yes, I will criticize him.

 

Your evaluation is totally wrong and is not how a front office views talent in the modern MLB.

Now is fine. Are u going to criticize him if he pops nine more home runs and hits 30 in limited at bats?

[steveno89]

Now is fine. Are u going to criticize him if he pops nine more home runs and hits 30 in limited at bats?

 

Yes, due to reasons I stated in an earlier post. He is a replacement level player as of right now.

 

 

[greg775]

Yes, due to reasons I stated in an earlier post. He is a replacement level player as of right now.

OMG. You are going to criticize a 26 year old rookie who hits 30 home runs in his first showing in the bigs? I love Moncada, but lets say over the next eight weeks he gets about 8 hits and continues to hit .100. Would u dare criticize him? Don't you see the cliche aspect of what you are saying?

All these recent trades and these players we got are beloved. Davidson 'could' hit 30 fricking home runs in his debut season? If he does, my gosh, he deserves rookie of the year. How many rookies hit 30 fricking home runs?

 

Cmon people, does nobody support me on this??

Edited July 31, 2017 by greg775

[mac9001]

OMG. You are going to criticize a 26 year old rookie who hits 30 home runs in his first showing in the bigs? I love Moncada, but lets say over the next eight weeks he gets about 8 hits and continues to hit .100. Would u dare criticize him? Don't you see the cliche aspect of what you are saying?

All these recent trades and these players we got are beloved. Davidson 'could' hit 30 fricking home runs in his debut season? If he does, my gosh, he deserves rookie of the year. How many rookies hit 30 fricking home runs?

 

Cmon people, does nobody support me on this??

 

At the rate Davidson is striking out he'll likely be hitting .180 or less soon. His HR to flyball rate is also uncharacteristically high. There's nothing about his current stats that indicates its sustainable. I'd put his odds of being waived at about 50% by this time next year.

Edited July 31, 2017 by mac9001

[greg775]

Aaron Judge has 33 HR's and is posting a 1.066 OPS. But that's what happens when you only are exposed to White Sox and Royals baseball.

 

Oh, and Jose Abreu hit 30 HRs as a rookie. 36, actually.

Good stat on Abreu. I think he should be part of the rebuilt team as well. You need vets to win pennants to go with the young guys.

Back to Davidson. I am flabbergasted by this current argument how I'm getting no support for Davidson. My FINAL ATTEMPT as I have to go to bed. Let's say Davidson's name was Robert or Rutherford. Let's say either of them had the exact same stats right now in their debut season. Let's say Robert or Rutherford did finish with 30 dongs and the same statgeek (no offense) stats. Exact same. What would you be saying about Robert or Ruthford? My guess is you and everybody on here would be doing handstands in glee for those guys.

[steveno89]

OMG. You are going to criticize a 26 year old rookie who hits 30 home runs in his first showing in the bigs? I love Moncada, but lets say over the next eight weeks he gets about 8 hits and continues to hit .100. Would u dare criticize him? Don't you see the cliche aspect of what you are saying?

All these recent trades and these players we got are beloved. Davidson 'could' hit 30 fricking home runs in his debut season? If he does, my gosh, he deserves rookie of the year. How many rookies hit 30 fricking home runs?

 

Cmon people, does nobody support me on this??

 

Take away home runs, what else does he do well? Absolutely nothing as of right now, except strike out.

 

I'm fine with Davidson in the lineup for now, but I'll be shocked if he improves enough to earn a starting role by 2019/2020.

[greg775]

At the rate Davidson is striking out he'll likely be hitting .180 or less soon. His HR to flyball rate is also uncharacteristically high. There's nothing about his current stats that indicates its sustainable. I'd put his odds of being waived at about 50% buy this time next year.

What if he gets sufficient at bats the next eight weeks to hit 30 homers in his rookie season. No props at all? A stern shake of your head saying, 'he's a stiff?' Just curious. Part of my argument is giving Davidson the 30 homers and what you'd think of him then. I'd buy him a beer in a bar for sure.

[mac9001]

What if he gets sufficient at bats the next eight weeks to hit 30 homers in his rookie season. No props at all? A stern shake of your head saying, 'he's a stiff?' Just curious. Part of my argument is giving Davidson the 30 homers and what you'd think of him then. I'd buy him a beer in a bar for sure.

 

I'll buy him the 2nd round. But the odds are highly against his current HR rate continuing and by all indications he's been lucky to hit .240. So far there's nothing to indicate he's likely to have sustained major league success.

 

[greg775]

Stop asking the same question when you don't get the answer you want. It's been answered multiple times, you're choosing not to accept the answer.

LOL. You sound like one of those attorneys on a TV show screaming object at the judge. My gosh it's no fun having a contrary opinion on here. Do you realize how inappropriate what you just said to me is?

 

I'll buy him the 2nd round. But the odds are highly against his current HR rate continuing and by all indications he's been lucky to hit .240. So far there's nothing to indicate he's likely to have sustained major league success.

At least you'd buy him a round as well. Cheers to you, Mac. Trying to get some love for a rookie on here.

[tray]

Davidson has shown improvement defensively. He has turned many difficult plays into outs. Shots down the line or in the hole which he has handled and thrown guys out. That does not show up in WAR or any defensive stat. One would have to watch the games to know that.

Davidson leads the team in HR.

The Sox do not have any other player in their minor league system that can play third base and jack 25+ home runs.

And please do not tell me that Burger can play third base until he has proven that through all levels of the Minors.

The videos of him playing defense are a joke.

 

The bottom line is that Davidson is the starting third basemen now and it will remain that way until there is a better alternative.

Until then he is doing most of what a corner infielder is supposed to do. He is playing a decent third base, he is durable, and he hits for power.

 

Judgment for Greg on this one.

 

[steveno89]

Davidson has shown improvement defensively. He has turned many difficult plays into outs. Shots down the line or in the hole which he has handled and thrown guys out. That does not show up in WAR or any defensive stat. One would have to watch the games to know that.

Davidson leads the team in HR.

The Sox do not have any other player in their minor league system that can play third base and jack 25+ home runs.

And please do not tell me that Burger can play third base until he has proven that through all levels of the Minors.

The videos of him playing defense are a joke.

 

The bottom line is that Davidson is the starting third basemen now and it will remain that way until there is a better alternative.

Until then he is doing most of what a corner infielder is supposed to do. He is playing a decent third base, he is durable, and he hits for power.

 

Judgment for Greg on this one.

 

Totally disagree. A .278 on base percentage and a whopping 39% k rate suggest he is far from being a starting caliber corner infielder. His 23% hr to FB ratio is likely to regress as well.

 

 

 

[Sleepy Harold]

OMG. You are going to criticize a 26 year old rookie who hits 30 home runs in his first showing in the bigs? I love Moncada, but lets say over the next eight weeks he gets about 8 hits and continues to hit .100. Would u dare criticize him? Don't you see the cliche aspect of what you are saying?

All these recent trades and these players we got are beloved. Davidson 'could' hit 30 fricking home runs in his debut season? If he does, my gosh, he deserves rookie of the year. How many rookies hit 30 fricking home runs?

 

Cmon people, does nobody support me on this??

No, 30 HRs would be cool because it's nice to cheer for, but like several have mentioned previously (mine in a more condensed style), the rest of his game isn't all that impressive now. 30 HRs in itself is nothing to scoff at, and sure he could further improve his overall game and that would obviously be welcomed, but I'm not gonna lose my mind solely over the potential of 30HRs when the rest of his game is mediocre (at best) now. He's a good player to have in a rebuild because he'll get his shot to prove himself and his game moving forward. If he doesn't, he'll be replaced by one our "beloved" prospects. Complacency gets you nowhere, always strive for better.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Sleepy Harold

[hogan873]

I'll say this about Davidson - he can hit the hell out of a baseball. I was at the game yesterday, and it was really cool to see him hit that line drive HR to win the game. The only true way we'll know how good of a player Davidson will be is to give him consistent at-bats. He's been getting those recently, and I expect him to play for most of the remainder of the season. He'll likely hit 30 HRs. But I'd have to agree that the rest of his stats are not great. I don't see the Sox having anyone else at 3rd next year, so maybe that will be the true test. From what I've seen, I like the power, but he seems to be a three outcome hitter: HR, fly ball, K.

 

Long story short, he'll most likely be part of the team next year, but I don't see him being part of any long-term plans. But you never know...he could surprise us all.