Who Should Be In The Lineup Next Year?

[thxfrthmmrs]

Tilson should go back to AAA next year after missing the full year, Cordell and Liriano should be ahead of him on the org depth chart.

[SCCWS]

Just looking at Davidson's stats tell everything. He has only walked 16 times in 86 games and has 124 K's. That is not a good or sustainable mlb ratio for a player who does not make alot of contact.

 

Davidson is similar to a Chris Carter type player, if given a full season he likely will hit 30+ home runs, but with a low average/tons of strikeouts/low on base/poor defense. Guys like that are fine for a rebuild, but should be no more than a bench player on a contender.

 

I understand your rational but he still only has played 86 games. Seems like a quick decision w less than 300 AB. I would say you should judge him next August when he should have 600 or so AB. Avi is hitting over .300 w 300 abs. Can we now decide he will be a .300 hitter going forward?

[roto]

My 2018 opening day 25 man:

 

C: Narvaez / Smith

1B: Abreu

2B: Moncada

SS: Anderson

3B: Davidson / Delmonico

LF: Leury

CF: Engel

RF: Avisail

DH: Delmonico / Davidson

 

BN: Tilson

BN: Yolmer

BN: Saladino

 

1. Rodon

2. Lopez

3. Shields

4. Giolito

5. Fulmer

 

Pen: Jones, Petricka, Goldberg, Beck, Bummer, Holmberg and Minaya

 

First guys up: Cordell, Gillaspie, Peter and Liriano for bats. Clark, Danish and Brennan for pen. Stephens, Guerrero and Cooper for rotation.

 

May as well give what we got a shot. I don't really see the point in bringing in vets, except maybe guys on minor league deals that can start in Charlotte and come up if needed.

 

I left Giolito and Fulmer at AAA and used Holmberg and Covey as placeholders. I chose Davidson for 3rd and Delmonico as DH. My pen matches yours but I kept Hanson and Saladino instead of Sanchez.

 

[Eminor3rd]

I think we need another veteran arm or two, in the mold of Pelfrey/Holland, who can hold a place if Fulmer/Giolito aren't ready but can be banished if one of them forces the issue.

 

I'd also like to see a few attempts at trades for post-hype sleepers (like Jake Arrieta), and that might even be the best use of Avi as a chip, either this offseason or next deadline, assuming that he regresses to become some average of this year and the those prior.

[ChiSox59]

I think we need another veteran arm or two, in the mold of Pelfrey/Holland, who can hold a place if Fulmer/Giolito aren't ready but can be banished if one of them forces the issue.

 

I'd ultimately be fine with that. But I really hope they don't make any ML signings for offensive guys. We have enough fringe guys that need ABs. Minor league deals? Sure, go to town. But I want Davidson, Delmonico, Saldino, Yolmer, Engel, Leury, Willy, Cordell, Gillaspie and Tilson getting as many ABs as possible in what is surely going to be another 60-70 win season.

 

[Sleepy Harold]

Anyone can parse stats to make a point.For example, Moustakis BA and OBP for 2014 was pretty bad (.212. BA .271 OBP)

He would have been gone if KC did not believe he could improve.

 

Geezus, give Davidson a chance. This is his first almost full season. And hit a landmark homerun against the Cubs. Never forget that either.

What does that matter? Would it have meant less if it was vs the A's or Padres? We're all giving Davidson a chance, but people are just pointing out the flaws in his game. It's called criticism.

[greg775]

Moustakas has a career K-rate of 15%, Matt Davidson is at 39.1% so far this year. They are in no way comparable. Moustakas was always a within reach of being a relatively decent hitter with a slight change to his approach and a little luck. Davidson needs to mash HRs at elite rates just to just to stay relevant offensively. He's one bad 10 game slump away from being irrelevant offensively and he's yet to prove he's capable of providing any value defensively.

Hope you judge our precious prospects as harshly after 300 or so at bats. I think it would be so cool for Davidson to hit 30 home runs and have people laugh at him like that's nothing. Please hit 30 home runs.

 

Just looking at Davidson's stats tell everything. He has only walked 16 times in 86 games and has 124 K's. That is not a good or sustainable mlb ratio for a player who does not make alot of contact.

His stats tell everything in his first season in the majors. OK, please judge all our prospects the same way. Oh wait, Davidson I guess is old at 26. I can understand only being excited about the prospects, but I stand by what I say if he hits 30 home runs that is a very very nice figure for a first-year player. Obviously i forgot about Judge and some of the other rookies in saying he's rookie of the year if he gets to 30 hrs, but my gosh I can't understand the double standard on here. I guarantee you if Rutherford hits 30 home runs his first year or Robert or any one of our darling prospects people will overlook the bad statgeek categories and only praise the prospect and Hahn. It's all up to Davidson to help me out here, get up to 30 home runs instead of staying stuck at 21 the final eight weeks.

Edited July 31, 2017 by greg775

[BlackSox13]

I think the point being missed on Davidson is if we take a look beyond his HR's, there's nothing impressive in the rest of his stats. However, the Sox are rebuilding so giving Davidson playing time will hurt nobody or hinder anyone's development. Davidson's future doesn't have to be decided now, that will be decided by Davidson with how he performs over the next year or two.

 

In a perfect world, Davidson get his playing to build value and when Burger is ready Davidson gets moved for pieces to fill holes on the next Sox contender.

[mac9001]

Hope you judge our precious prospects as harshly after 300 or so at bats. I think it would be so cool for Davidson to hit 30 home runs and have people laugh at him like that's nothing. Please hit 30 home runs.

 

 

His stats tell everything in his first season in the majors. OK, please judge all our prospects the same way. Oh wait, Davidson I guess is old at 26. I can understand only being excited about the prospects, but I stand by what I say if he hits 30 home runs that is a very very nice figure for a first-year player. Obviously i forgot about Judge and some of the other rookies in saying he's rookie of the year if he gets to 30 hrs, but my gosh I can't understand the double standard on here. I guarantee you if Rutherford hits 30 home runs his first year or Robert or any one of our darling prospects people will overlook the bad statgeek categories and only praise the prospect and Hahn. It's all up to Davidson to help me out here, get up to 30 home runs instead of staying stuck at 21 the final eight weeks.

 

The difference between Davidson and whomever we call up next is Davidson never deserved major league at bat's anyway. His minor league numbers did not justify a promotion. He got a chance and he's hit a bunch of home runs. He's made a good showing out of an unearned opportunity. Problem is his numbers are not sustainable and far exceed his previous career norms. He will not keep hitting home runs on flyballs at his current rate. He will not continue to post absurdly low infield fly ball ratios. He will not maintain his current level of hard hit balls. He likely will see a regression in his BABIP and subsequently his batting average. But he may continue to strike out nearly 40% of the time making his margin for offensive success incredibly thin.

 

Then there's the issue of defense. He hasn't played enough in the field to give him a fair shake, but at best he's neutral in terms of defensive value.

 

[steveno89]

Hope you judge our precious prospects as harshly after 300 or so at bats. I think it would be so cool for Davidson to hit 30 home runs and have people laugh at him like that's nothing. Please hit 30 home runs.

 

 

His stats tell everything in his first season in the majors. OK, please judge all our prospects the same way. Oh wait, Davidson I guess is old at 26. I can understand only being excited about the prospects, but I stand by what I say if he hits 30 home runs that is a very very nice figure for a first-year player. Obviously i forgot about Judge and some of the other rookies in saying he's rookie of the year if he gets to 30 hrs, but my gosh I can't understand the double standard on here. I guarantee you if Rutherford hits 30 home runs his first year or Robert or any one of our darling prospects people will overlook the bad statgeek categories and only praise the prospect and Hahn. It's all up to Davidson to help me out here, get up to 30 home runs instead of staying stuck at 21 the final eight weeks.

 

Greg, what are call "statgeek categories" are modern baseball metric for player evaluation. At age 26 there is far less projection left in a player than when they are 20 years old, what you see is very much what you get. If he can drastically increase his walk rate, and drastically decrease his strikeout rate then he might be serviceable, but I do not see it happening.

 

What is with the 30 home run obsession? I would rather have a player hit far less home runs, but have an OBP of .350 than Davidson hit 30 with an OBP of .278. Power is important, but not at the expense of every other tool being below average from a player.

[witesoxfan]

His stats tell everything in his first season in the majors. OK, please judge all our prospects the same way. Oh wait, Davidson I guess is old at 26. I can understand only being excited about the prospects, but I stand by what I say if he hits 30 home runs that is a very very nice figure for a first-year player. Obviously i forgot about Judge and some of the other rookies in saying he's rookie of the year if he gets to 30 hrs, but my gosh I can't understand the double standard on here. I guarantee you if Rutherford hits 30 home runs his first year or Robert or any one of our darling prospects people will overlook the bad statgeek categories and only praise the prospect and Hahn. It's all up to Davidson to help me out here, get up to 30 home runs instead of staying stuck at 21 the final eight weeks.

 

Greg, remember Josh Fields? He came up as a rookie in 2007 in what was a lost year for the Sox and slugged 23 homers in 100 games. Over 600 plate appearances, that would have been around 33 homers. It was a slightly better offensive environment 10 years ago, but he came with similar red flags - not a ton of walks, higher strikeout rate, a low average, mediocre defense, not much speed. He ended up becoming irrelevant very quickly because he couldn't make the adjustments necessary as well as some issues dealing with the environment of a big league clubhouse.

 

Hell, Chris Carter for the Brewers (and former Sox farm hand) led the National League in home runs last year. The Brewers didn't even offer him a contract this past winter because his flaws are so pronounced.

 

Point being, a counting number might be "sexy" but it could be very, very empty. If a slap hitter puts up a .300 average, that's good! But let's add context - he doesn't walk, he doesn't hit for power, and doesn't steal bases, and he doesn't play the field very well. So we're looking at a guy who is putting up a .300/.330/.370 line. That kind of player has value, but it's better served as a bench piece. You get a flawed player who still adds value to the team.

 

Everything needs context. Simply saying "if x-player hits y homers, people will be celebrating" is absolutely wrong. If said player does it with a good average, good plate discipline, and good defense, then absolutely, they will be singing praise. If it's a 30 homer season with a low average, not many walks, a ton of strikeouts, mediocre defense, and no discernible speed on the basepaths, people are going to be very cautious moving forward with that player.

[harfman77]

Sox trade Sanchez, Leury, Saladino and Avi over the offseason.

 

C Navarez

1B Abreu

2B Moncada

SS Anderson

3B Davidson

RF Wily Garcia

CF Tilson

LF Engel

DH Delmonico/FA

 

UT - Cordrell

UT - Hanson

C - Smith

BE - Ashe

 

SP Rodon

SP FA - one year deal

SP Shields

SP Lopez

SP Holmberg/Giolito

 

CP - Fulmer

SU - Jones

RP - Bummer

RP - Petricka

RP - Beck

RP - FA LHRP

SW - Danish/Holmberg

[Bob Sacamano]

How can anyone pencil Charlie Tilson into a lineup at this point without being sarcastic.

[witesoxfan]

How can anyone pencil Charlie Tilson into a lineup at this point without being sarcastic.

 

I don't know how anyone can even consider putting together any sort of 25 man roster right now regardless. Other than like Abreu and Moncada, there is no one on the MLB team that I think is safe.

[knightni]

I really like Alen Hanson as a bench guy.

 

He's fast, and can play all OF spots and 2B.

 

 

[ChiSox59]

I really like Alen Hanson as a bench guy.

 

He's fast, and can play all OF spots and 2B.

 

He's an interesting guy, and definitely one the Sox should be taking a look at.

 

Problem is, he kind of sucks.

[Rowand44]

He's an interesting guy, and definitely one the Sox should be taking a look at.

 

Problem is, he kind of sucks.

Ha, I love this post.

[Bob Sacamano]

He's an interesting guy, and definitely one the Sox should be taking a look at.

 

Problem is, he kind of sucks.

 

Yeah, whenever the time comes where we have a 40-man roster crunch, he's easy fodder.

[jenksycat]

Greg, remember Josh Fields? He came up as a rookie in 2007 in what was a lost year for the Sox and slugged 23 homers in 100 games. Over 600 plate appearances, that would have been around 33 homers. It was a slightly better offensive environment 10 years ago, but he came with similar red flags - not a ton of walks, higher strikeout rate, a low average, mediocre defense, not much speed. He ended up becoming irrelevant very quickly because he couldn't make the adjustments necessary as well as some issues dealing with the environment of a big league clubhouse.

 

Hell, Chris Carter for the Brewers (and former Sox farm hand) led the National League in home runs last year. The Brewers didn't even offer him a contract this past winter because his flaws are so pronounced.

 

Point being, a counting number might be "sexy" but it could be very, very empty. If a slap hitter puts up a .300 average, that's good! But let's add context - he doesn't walk, he doesn't hit for power, and doesn't steal bases, and he doesn't play the field very well. So we're looking at a guy who is putting up a .300/.330/.370 line. That kind of player has value, but it's better served as a bench piece. You get a flawed player who still adds value to the team.

 

Everything needs context. Simply saying "if x-player hits y homers, people will be celebrating" is absolutely wrong. If said player does it with a good average, good plate discipline, and good defense, then absolutely, they will be singing praise. If it's a 30 homer season with a low average, not many walks, a ton of strikeouts, mediocre defense, and no discernible speed on the basepaths, people are going to be very cautious moving forward with that player.

 

Gotta remember Greg lives in like a 2-3 week fandom window. Davidson hit a walk off dinger yesterday and therefore is one the of the Sox greats and should be treated as such. Moncada is hitting .100 for the last couple weeks and is therefore a bust.

[Superstar Lamar]

all he does is catch touchdowns

[Chicago White Sox]

Sox trade Sanchez, Leury, Saladino and Avi over the offseason.

 

C Navarez

1B Abreu

2B Moncada

SS Anderson

3B Davidson

RF Wily Garcia

CF Tilson

LF Engel

DH Delmonico/FA

 

UT - Cordrell

UT - Hanson

C - Smith

BE - Ashe

 

SP Rodon

SP FA - one year deal

SP Shields

SP Lopez

SP Holmberg/Giolito

 

CP - Fulmer

SU - Jones

RP - Bummer

RP - Petricka

RP - Beck

RP - FA LHRP

SW - Danish/Holmberg

Why would you ever start Tilson in CF over Engel? I don't get the Tilson love to begin with, but Engel is an awesome defensive CF and Tilson isn't.

[witesoxfan]

Why would you ever start Tilson in CF over Engel? I don't get the Tilson love to begin with, but Engel is an awesome defensive CF and Tilson isn't.

 

I mean, I guess we haven't seen much of Tilson (2 PAs!), but his game has never excited me much.

[caulfield12]

What possible argument actually is there for Tilson starting, assuming he's 100% healthy, which we all know is nearly implausible...?

[TheFutureIsNear]

To start the season, should be drastically different by June.

 

LF- Tilson

CF-L Garcia

2B- Moncada

1B- Abreu

RF- A Garcia

DH- Davidson

3B- Sally

C- Navarez

SS- Anderson

 

 

 

 

[greg775]

The difference between Davidson and whomever we call up next is Davidson never deserved major league at bat's anyway.

Well, as a first round draft pick I'd say he deserves MLB at bats, a look so to say. I guess I'm wrong from what I've read on here, but lets say the guy could hit 35 home runs a year minimum with the prpoer at bats for the next 5 seasons. Whose career would compare at that point? Almost 200 home runs in the bigs, not so bad. I do think many first rounders deserve a look, although Fields like witesoxfan said was a first rounder and CJ Henry too.

 

Greg, remember Josh Fields? He came up as a rookie in 2007 in what was a lost year for the Sox and slugged 23 homers in 100 games. Over 600 plate appearances, that would have been around 33 homers. It was a slightly better offensive environment 10 years ago, but he came with similar red flags - not a ton of walks, higher strikeout rate, a low average, mediocre defense, not much speed. He ended up becoming irrelevant very quickly because he couldn't make the adjustments necessary as well as some issues dealing with the environment of a big league clubhouse.

 

Hell, Chris Carter for the Brewers (and former Sox farm hand) led the National League in home runs last year. The Brewers didn't even offer him a contract this past winter because his flaws are so pronounced.

 

Point being, a counting number might be "sexy" but it could be very, very empty. If a slap hitter puts up a .300 average, that's good! But let's add context - he doesn't walk, he doesn't hit for power, and doesn't steal bases, and he doesn't play the field very well. So we're looking at a guy who is putting up a .300/.330/.370 line. That kind of player has value, but it's better served as a bench piece. You get a flawed player who still adds value to the team.

 

Everything needs context. Simply saying "if x-player hits y homers, people will be celebrating" is absolutely wrong. If said player does it with a good average, good plate discipline, and good defense, then absolutely, they will be singing praise. If it's a 30 homer season with a low average, not many walks, a ton of strikeouts, mediocre defense, and no discernible speed on the basepaths, people are going to be very cautious moving forward with that player.

Well, your invoking the name of Fields wins you this argument at least temporarily. Yes Fields was a first round draft pick also. Yes Fields did have the 23 home run season right off the bat then sucked big time. Your identifying Shields as a possible clone does indeed win you this argument. Cause if he indeed is the next Fields, then he blows. In a debate, no question, the revelation of Shields as a comparison or precedent case if you will, gives you the victory in this argument. If I start thinking of Davidson as Fields I will definitely despise him, soon, rather than have hopes he is a 35 homer guy the next 5 seasons minimum.

 

Gotta remember Greg lives in like a 2-3 week fandom window. Davidson hit a walk off dinger yesterday and therefore is one the of the Sox greats and should be treated as such. Moncada is hitting .100 for the last couple weeks and is therefore a bust.

I'm not down on Moncada. You making that up? I'm just upset that the darlings we get in trades are going to get all sorts of support on here and a guy like Davidson (who also was a first rounder; I'd think the first round cliche would help him with fans) will draw yawns even if he hits 30 homers this year. My position for the record is I'm against the rebuild but as a "fan" I have the right to cheer for the product if and when it succeeds no matter if I supported the move to begin with. I worshiped Ozzie so to speak but continued following the team upon his not getting an extension and bolting for Miami. I have nothing against a potential outfield of Eloy, Robert and Rutherford with Q or somebody else at DH. I have nothing against an infield of Burger, TA, Moncada and Abreu and Collins catching and all those arms in the rotation. I don't know where you got my Moncada hate from. I'll never understand many fans always wanting the unknown over what is known.

Edited July 31, 2017 by greg775