Who Should Be In The Lineup Next Year?

Chicago White Sox · July 31, 2017

Davidson's numbers outside of HRs are ugly, but those HRs will be enough to give him another opportunity in 2018 to improve. I'm not optimistic he'll correct his swing & miss issues or learn to draw more walks, but there is nothing to lose by giving him the 3B job next year.

But lol at him deserving to be ROY because of 30 dingers. Greg ignoring every other metric and basically saying Davidson (21 HRs, .770 OPS, 98 wRC+, 0.0 WAR) deserves similar praise to the projected ROY winners in Judge (33 HRs, 1.065 OPS, 176 wRC+, 5.8 WAR) & Bellinger (28 HRs, .948 OPS, 141 wRC+, 2.8 WAR) is some of the most pathetic trolling I have ever seen on this board.

BlackSox13 · July 31, 2017

Why is it when I look at Davidson's numbers I think of him as a younger Trumbo Lite? Low BA, high K's and loads of power. I say let Davidson play 3B as much as possible. Some team might see value in a young cost controlled 3B with power and some years of control left. It's possible Davidson could bring back a decent haul a year from now. Hell, it's even possible Davidson mashes enough to be the future DH/1B. Nice thing is that his future doesn't have to be decided just yet. Davidson is the best 3B option until Burger is ready so let him play 3r and see what happens.

SCCWS · July 31, 2017

Let's also remember that Avi has taken a step up offensively this year after several years of struggling. So like I posted about Moncada yesterday, Davidson has improved his defense enough to be adequate at 3rd. Someone in the organization needs to now try and help Davidson and Moncada cut down on strikeouts. Opponents must love to see them back to back right now.

thxfrthmmrs · July 31, 2017

QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Jul 30, 2017 -> 10:42 PM)

I have no problem with the patient approach or rebuilding from scratch the way they are. I just think the goal should gradually shift starting this offseason from intentionally losing and sabotaging the ML squad at every turn to a more win now mindset. Not overnight, not over the course of one season, and not at the expense of the talent they've acquired already. I cant make that clear enough. No trading Eloy Jimenez for a rental, that is not what I want to do.

I just think after they lock in the high draft pick this year they should start looking at trying to compete sooner rather than later, and its better for them long-term if they finish around .500 next year than if they lose 100 games in 2018. As of the conclusion of this season it will be more important for the young players they have now to be successful together at the major league level than it will be to keep stockpiling minor leaguers.

Moustakas is the guy I'd really like to sign, but really only if he were to take a 4 year deal (and we wont know how feasible that is until the offseason). He just makes too much sense, and the Sox may be able to score him cheap while everyone else has their eyes ahead to the next year. Harper and Machado will not be going to the White Sox, anyone holding out hope for that is out of their minds.

We are in YEAR ONE of the rebuild for Christ's sake. What did you expect a rebuild is going to be like. You're all of a sudden expecting a team that's literally been stripped apart in every direction to suddenly finish back up to .500 next year? How the heck are they going to do it? The rotation and bullpen you suggested, and the signing of Moustakas you also suggested will put Sox nowhere near .500 next year, unless they sign more FA's, something they should not be doing. One other thing to consider is why spend money on big free agents when you can defer payroll till 2019 or 2020 to spend on players when you have a more realistic shot at competing. I just don't see anyone in the FA class next year Sox should jump the gun to go after.

I just don't think rushing to get back to .500 is important enough for them to take on risk in big contracts or rushing prospects next season. Look at team like Cubs, Astros, Royals or even Rockies, they have all gone through multiple (as in more than 3) years of sucking and irrelevancy before becoming good teams again. Astros (who went 51-111 in 2013!) had Altuve, Jason Castro and Keuchel, Cubs had Rizzo, Castro, Arrieta and Hendrick, Royals had Hosmer, Gordon, Moustakas, Cain, Escobar, Herrera, Holland and more, Rockies had CarGo, Blackmon, Arenado, and LeMahieu; these are players who were part of multiple losing seasons and then went on to become stars or at least played important parts on their future winning team. So I am not concerned at all if Moncada, Lopez, or Kopech have to sit through another bad year in 2018 before the team takes off in 2019 or 2020.

tray · July 31, 2017

KC would have given up on Moustakis after his first several years in the majors where he was hitting for low average and did not put up big power numbers. I find it somewhat contradictory to be all in on a rebuild that involves developing players from within, and then complaining about Davidson who is in his first full season in the majors and has already shown great improvement.

Anyway, as far as 2018, IMHO, the composition of the starting rotation and bullpen will dictate whether or not the team can be competitive.

If it looks like what we have now, it will be another sorry season. On the other hand, if they bring up Giolito, Kopec, Reynaldo Lopez z(and they start dealing) and then stabilize the bullpen with a few relievers, the record is going to improve over what we have this season. Our pitching staff now is a joke.

BamaDoc · July 31, 2017

I think we will need to sign several free agents for next year. We need to protect our young pitchers and not rush them ala Carson Fulmer. Shields seems ok as the veteran mentor and no one is going to take him so he stays. We will also have to replace a lot of other innings. We have several things to offer. 1) opportunity, that's easy to see 2) A great medical staff for those looking to bounce back 3) Don Cooper, again for bounce backs. 4) low payroll

I am in no way suggesting we sign high level guys. You bottom feed and hope you find something. Also watch that we may be able to bring in some minor league free agents ala Q and give them their chance. All the people we acquire also should know if they do well, they could be pitching meaningful games late in the year as we will flip them. Every year, there are free agents who linger far longer than they expect. We can swoop in and buy low. We need several relievers as well. Let them compete, several one year deals , see who sticks and flips. As our young guys get ready none of these players will block them.

I am not against bringing back Gonzales but I think he may get a better offer than I would give but I would keep the door open. Holland, we need his innings but I wonder if he could reestablish value as a reliever? At 6 million I am not willing to resign unless he shows he can still pitch this last part of the season or signs an incentive madden deal at lower dollars to pitch in relief.

Dunt · July 31, 2017

Next years lineup should be:

CF L. Garcia

2B Moncada

1B Abreu

RF A. Garcia

DH Gillaspie

3B Davidson

LF Cordell

C Narvaez

SS Anderson

Bob Sacamano · July 31, 2017

QUOTE (Dunt @ Jul 31, 2017 -> 10:42 AM)

Next years lineup should be:

CF L. Garcia

2B Moncada

1B Abreu

RF A. Garcia

DH Gillaspie

3B Davidson

LF Cordell

C Narvaez

SS Anderson

I think Delmonico can be at DH. It can actually be an open competition between him, Gillaspie and Hayes.

mac9001 · July 31, 2017

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Jul 31, 2017 -> 10:21 AM)

KC would have given up on Moustakis after his first several years in the majors where he was hitting for low average and did not put up big power numbers. I find it somewhat contradictory to be all in on a rebuild that involves developing players from within, and then complaining about Davidson who is in his first full season in the majors and has already shown great improvement.

Anyway, as far as 2018, IMHO, the composition of the starting rotation and bullpen will dictate whether or not the team can be competitive.

If it looks like what we have now, it will be another sorry season. On the other hand, if they bring up Giolito, Kopec, Reynaldo Lopez z(and they start dealing) and then stabilize the bullpen with a few relievers, the record is going to improve over what we have this season. Our pitching staff now is a joke.

Moustakas has a career K-rate of 15%, Matt Davidson is at 39.1% so far this year. They are in no way comparable. Moustakas was always a within reach of being a relatively decent hitter with a slight change to his approach and a little luck. Davidson needs to mash HRs at elite rates just to just to stay relevant offensively. He's one bad 10 game slump away from being irrelevant offensively and he's yet to prove he's capable of providing any value defensively.

steveno89 · July 31, 2017

QUOTE (mac9001 @ Jul 31, 2017 -> 10:46 AM)

Moustakas has a career K-rate of 15%, Matt Davidson is at 39.1% so far this year. They are in no way comparable. Moustakas was always a within reach of being a relatively decent hitter with a slight change to his approach and a little luck. Davidson needs to mash HRs at elite rates just to just to stay relevant offensively. He's one bad 10 game slump away from being irrelevant offensively and he's yet to prove he's capable of providing any value defensively.

Just looking at Davidson's stats tell everything. He has only walked 16 times in 86 games and has 124 K's. That is not a good or sustainable mlb ratio for a player who does not make alot of contact.

Davidson is similar to a Chris Carter type player, if given a full season he likely will hit 30+ home runs, but with a low average/tons of strikeouts/low on base/poor defense. Guys like that are fine for a rebuild, but should be no more than a bench player on a contender.

CaliSoxFanViaSWside · July 31, 2017

Losing sucks but you have to believe in the process. The process requires lots and lots of patience. If you are young patience is easy . If you are old and want to see the Sox get in the playoffs and have a shot at another World Series it is harder. Reinsdorf falls in the second category and supposedly it took a lot to convince him to rebuild.

Anyone who advocates a near .500 record by bringing up prospects next year really has no clue how many really good players it takes to make the playoffs and how long it takes some young players to pitch many innings or develop over time like Moose or Avi. Aaron Judge was a K machine the last few years.No one on here believed in Leury Garcia until he started cutting down on the K's .

You could probably look at All Star teams and find more players that took 2-3 years playing at the MLB level to become All Stars than instant success stories. even more so on the pitching side. Moncada has a long way to go before he becomes elite and there's an equal if not better chance he never becomes elite.

Just let the top prospects prove their worth at the upper levels . Hell our best prospects are in A ball . Look at how bad our minor league teams are.

Sure some guys will get a shot next year. Lopez , maybe Giolito, Jordan Stephens , a crap load of OF suspects but expecting them to make major contributions to anything but their own development is expecting way too much.

caulfield12 · July 31, 2017

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jul 31, 2017 -> 09:45 AM)

I think Delmonico can be at DH. It can actually be an open competition between him, Gillaspie and Hayes.

Willy Garcia probably figures in there as well...Engel/Tilson for that last outfield spot off the bench.

If Leury repeats this year, he probably gets traded. How many years of control again on him?

Bullpen's a total crapshoot.

Edited July 31, 2017 by caulfield12

ChiSox59 · July 31, 2017

QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Jul 29, 2017 -> 05:38 PM)

The Cubs thought Jimenez was MLB ready this spring. I trust their judgment. Kopech is on a perfect timetable to be a 2018 midseason callup.

If it perfectly conceivable that neither of those guys play an inning in the big leagues until 2019. You're schedule is at least a year ahead of reality.

southsider2k5 · July 31, 2017

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 31, 2017 -> 11:40 AM)

If it perfectly conceivable that neither of those guys play an inning in the big leagues until 2019. You're schedule is at least a year ahead of reality.

Jimenez is way more advanced and rushing him would be silly. Rushing Kopech would just be dumb.

tray · July 31, 2017

Anyone can parse stats to make a point.For example, Moustakis BA and OBP for 2014 was pretty bad (.212. BA .271 OBP)

He would have been gone if KC did not believe he could improve.

Geezus, give Davidson a chance. This is his first almost full season. And hit a landmark homerun against the Cubs. Never forget that either.

Kyyle23 · July 31, 2017

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Jul 31, 2017 -> 11:46 AM)

Anyone can parse stats to make a point.For example, Moustakis BA and OBP for 2014 was pretty bad (.212. BA .271 OBP)

He would have been gone if KC did not believe he could improve.

Geezus, give Davidson a chance. This is his first almost full season. And hit a landmark homerun against the Cubs. Never forget that either.

He was 1/14 with 5 strikeouts and one solo homerun against the cubs. I can forget that.

chw42 · July 31, 2017

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jul 31, 2017 -> 06:45 AM)

Why is it when I look at Davidson's numbers I think of him as a younger Trumbo Lite? Low BA, high K's and loads of power. I say let Davidson play 3B as much as possible. Some team might see value in a young cost controlled 3B with power and some years of control left. It's possible Davidson could bring back a decent haul a year from now. Hell, it's even possible Davidson mashes enough to be the future DH/1B. Nice thing is that his future doesn't have to be decided just yet. Davidson is the best 3B option until Burger is ready so let him play 3r and see what happens.

The thing about Davidson is that he doesn't walk. He used to in the minors, I'm not exactly sure what happened. If he can bring his walk numbers up, the lack of contact wouldn't be as big of an issue. His power is there, but he needs to be able to at least get on base at a .300+ clip to be considered valuable.

ChiSox59 · July 31, 2017

My 2018 opening day 25 man:

C: Narvaez / Smith

1B: Abreu

2B: Moncada

SS: Anderson

3B: Davidson / Delmonico

LF: Leury

CF: Engel

RF: Avisail

DH: Delmonico / Davidson

BN: Tilson

BN: Yolmer

BN: Saladino

1. Rodon

2. Lopez

3. Shields

4. Giolito

5. Fulmer

Pen: Jones, Petricka, Goldberg, Beck, Bummer, Holmberg and Minaya

First guys up: Cordell, Gillaspie, Peter and Liriano for bats. Clark, Danish and Brennan for pen. Stephens, Guerrero and Cooper for rotation.

May as well give what we got a shot. I don't really see the point in bringing in vets, except maybe guys on minor league deals that can start in Charlotte and come up if needed.

Edited July 31, 2017 by ChiSox59

Kyyle23 · July 31, 2017

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 31, 2017 -> 11:56 AM)