2017-2018 NFL Thread

[soxfan49]

Lol...there is literally no way to fairly evaluate Mitch this season due to the s***ty play-calling and the worst WR group in Bears history. We’ll all just have to wait until next year assuming Pace decides WR is actually a position of importance.

Seriously. Dontrelle f***ing Inman is their #1 receiver. If he wasn’t on the team in 2019 none of us would care. He is a #4 on a good day. Go sign Allen Robinson or Davante Adams, Paul Richardson or Marqise Lee, keep Meredith, and use the 2nd rounder on a WR

 

Robinson/Adams

Meredith

Richardson/Lee

Cobbs/Sutton/Washington

Bellamy

 

Shaheen/Sims

 

If he still sucks in December 2019 in this scenario, cut bait, and by bait I mean the entire FO

[Jack Parkman]

Troy Aikman and Peyton Manning beg to differ

Peyton Manning went 21-37 with 302 yds 1 TD and 3 INT in his first start. He had a 42 yd pass. Did he make mistakes? Sure. But he moved the ball, made plays, etc.

Aikman I'll give you.

[Chicago White Sox]

Peyton Manning went 21-37 with 302 yds 1 TD and 3 INT in his first start. He had a 42 yd pass. Did he make mistakes? Sure. But he moved the ball, made plays, etc.

Aikman I'll give you.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000044...ad-first-starts

 

Looks like quite a few star QBs failed to demonstrate ”greatness” from the start...

 

And Manning had Marshall Faulk & Marvin Harrison, while Mitch has Tarik Cohen & Dontrelle Inman.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Chicago White Sox

[Jack Parkman]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000044...ad-first-starts

 

Looks like quite a few star QBs failed to demonstrate ”greatness” from the start...

 

And Manning had Marshall Faulk & Marvin Harrison, while Mitch has Tarik Cohen & Dontrelle Inman.

Don't give me the "he has nobody to throw to" excuse. While they were both all-time greats, Favre and Brady NEVER had anyone to throw to. NOBODY they had as recievers did ANYTHING outside of Green Bay and New England respectively, save for the 2 seasons that Brady had Randy Moss. Hell, Brady won 2 SBs with Troy Brown, Jabar Gaffney, and Deion Branch as his top 3 receivers. Had zero TEs at that point. Those guys were probably equal in talent to Wright/Inman. Antonio Freeman, Greg Jennings and Donald Driver never did anything when away from Favre/Rodgers either. The QB makes the receiver, not the other way around. I wonder how many 1,000 yd seasons Larry Fitzgerald had without Kurt Warner and Carson Palmer? A: 2 in 6 seasons.

[Kyyle23]

Don't give me the "he has nobody to throw to" excuse. While they were both all-time greats, Favre and Brady NEVER had anyone to throw to. NOBODY they had as recievers did ANYTHING outside of Green Bay and New England respectively, save for the 2 seasons that Brady had Randy Moss. Hell, Brady won 2 SBs with Troy Brown, Jabar Gaffney, and Deion Branch as his top 3 receivers. Had zero TEs at that point. Those guys were probably equal in talent to Wright/Inman. Antonio Freeman, Greg Jennings and Donald Driver never did anything when away from Favre/Rodgers either. The QB makes the receiver, not the other way around. I wonder how many 1,000 yd seasons Larry Fitzgerald had without Kurt Warner and Carson Palmer? A: 2 in 6 seasons.

 

Wait, you are saying Brady and Manning neither had great receivers to throw to?

[Jack Parkman]

Wait, you are saying Brady and Manning neither had great receivers to throw to?

Manning did, Brady didn't and Favre didn't either. The point is, you don't know how good a receiver who has a HOF QB throwing to them REALLY is until they no longer have said QB to throw them the ball. Only then do you know if they are really that good and talented. Larry Fitzgerald was one of them, he continued to produce even when he didn't have Kurt Warner throwing the football to him. None of the players that have gone through the Patriots have really done anything anywhere else, other than Randy Moss who was there at the end of his career. You don't know how good Gronkowski really is because Brady is throwing him the ball. Gronk is the only guy that you can really say that may be supremely talented that Brady has as a receiver.

[Chicago White Sox]

Manning did, Brady didn't and Favre didn't either. The point is, you don't know how good a receiver who has a HOF QB throwing to them REALLY is until they no longer have said QB to throw them the ball. Only then do you know if they are really that good and talented. Larry Fitzgerald was one of them, he continued to produce even when he didn't have Kurt Warner throwing the football to him. None of the players that have gone through the Patriots have really done anything anywhere else, other than Randy Moss who was there at the end of his career. You don't know how good Gronkowski really is because Brady is throwing him the ball. Gronk is the only guy that you can really say that may be supremely talented that Brady has as a receiver.

First off, I’m not sure why you’re comparing Mitch to two of the greatest QBs. No one other than you has that expectation. But the idea that these guys had no one to throw to is garbage. Antonio Freeman & Donald Driver both had more talent in their little pinkies than this entire Bears WR group. He also had talented receivers like Sterling Sharpe & Javon Walker for periods of time as well. Farve may have made these guys better, but they weren’t some bums like you’re making them out to be. I’d have to look at Brady’s receivers to truly comment on him, but everything about the Patriots is an outlier and they typically found guys who fit their schemes perfectly. So again, if Brady is your expectation here, be prepared for a world of dissapointment with Mitch.

[Kyyle23]

First off, I’m not sure why you’re comparing Mitch to two of the greatest QBs. No one other than you has that expectation. But the idea that these guys had no one to throw to is garbage. Antonio Freeman & Donald Driver both had more talent in their little pinkies than this entire Bears WR group. He also had talented receivers like Sterling Sharpe & Javon Walker for periods of time as well. Farve may have made these guys better, but they weren’t some bums like you’re making them out to be. I’d have to look at Brady’s receivers to truly comment on him, but everything about the Patriots is an outlier and they typically found guys who fit their schemes perfectly. So again, if Brady is your expectation here, be prepared for a world of dissapointment with Mitch.

 

Brady had guys like Moss, Welker, Gronk, Deion Branch, Aaron Hernandez, Amendola that have all produced very well with him. And Brady certainly didn’t have “it” right off the bat, he was a game manager and Belicheck schemed to beat every team around a good defense.

 

Parkman clearly seems to believe that elite QBs make the WRs and even bums can look great under the elites. Not gonna bother trying to change his mind

[knightni]

The Bears are the first NFL team in 17 years to pass for less than 140 yards and rush for single digits in a game.

[thxfrthmmrs]

I think yesterday's game was the worst I've seen from Trubisky. He was throwing too many passes behind the receivers instead of leading them. Missed a lot of first downs and led to an interception at the end.

[Dick Allen]

I like this idea.

I think it makes the most sense. And I am a guy who doesn't understand the sort of sainthood many have given Fangio. The d dense has had some real issues and it isn't John Fox.

 

Fox needs to go, but he is far from the only one. I wonder how many 6-10s or 7-9s before it's time for a special Pace bus at Soldier Field. Trubisky needs time, but the jury is out on all his drafts. You are drafting that high for 3 years in a row some impact should be seen. His free agents have been mediocre at best. How he left the re eiving corp this year is unfathomable, he needs to be at the very least, on the clock.

 

The problem is if he is hiring the next coach, and it appears Ernie Accorsi hired the first, he probably is going to be around for a while no matter what.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Dick Allen

[Middle Buffalo]

I think I've had enough of the "clever" TD and sack celebrations.

[bmags]

I think I've had enough of the "clever" TD and sack celebrations.

 

ha, same. But I think the broadcasts will eventually get over the novelty of it.

[southsider2k5]

Hold on to Fox for the season, try to tank this to get the highest pick possible. There is no good reason to try to win games the rest of this season.

[bmags]

Man, saw on Twitter that Fox has lost by 20+ points in 20% of his games with the bears, higher than any other Bears coach. He's also the losingest (it's a word now) bears coach in history.

 

What a disaster.

[StrangeSox]

I didn't think Fox would ever be great but I didn't think he'd be this bad.

[Chisoxfn]

Lol...there is literally no way to fairly evaluate Mitch this season due to the s***ty play-calling and the worst WR group in Bears history. We’ll all just have to wait until next year assuming Pace decides WR is actually a position of importance.

I've defended Fox and Loggains a lot and I do think this team has major limitations. I agree with DA in terms of how we handled Jeffrey. Losing him was just brutal (I recognize he didn't want to be here, but taking the cap hit and franchising him would have been fine with me, purely for the sake that we put this roster in a position where our QB's would have a difficult time succeeding). You can't predict injuries, but literally, we entered the preseason with one of the worst corps in the league and only got worse from there. The Jeffrey move was also just a bad handling of an asset (as if we didn't think we'd want him / he didn't want to be here, we should have moved him at the deadline last year). Either way, I'm hoping Pace can learn from some of his negatives (as there definitely have been some)...and build on the positives (as I do think he's largely drafted well...based upon early returns...White being the major exception). And while he's had his free agency misses, none of have been massive cap problems, which I'll take as a positive and he has hit on some guys.

 

I really liked the Inman deal as well...having him and Meredith (if he can come back) will very much help the overall depth of the receiving corps.

[Chisoxfn]

So here’s the thing.....None of this matters.

 

Mitch Trubisky is going to get at least three years of starts before a move is made. Judging him based on a handful of starts means NOTHING. Zero. There is literally not a single reason, outside of having a message board debate, on making a judgment on who Mitch Trubisky is. You have no idea. The Bears have no idea. NFL scouts have no idea. HE has no idea.

 

You’re rushing to judgment because...I don’t know why, but there is no reason to do it. You want to have this conversation in after the 2019 season? Fine. After 7 starts? Come on, man.

Next year, after a full-offseason, and hopefully a revamped offense, we'll get a better idea. I expect Mitch to put in massive work, watch lots of film, and learn from the experience he got this year. With that, I expect him to work heavily on his footwork, but some of that will improve naturally as he reads defenses, better, etc. Right now, he's a tick slow on everything and with that timing and footwork is off too. Jared Goff is a great example as he was a guy who had to learn the NFL a lot and had really bad footwork his rookie season only to make massive improvements with experience. Even then, we will be heading into a new offensive system. I think in hindsight, we probably should have cut the cord with Fox a year ago (and I've been a Fox defender), but if we were going to draft a young QB, I want consistency in schemes, specifically the offensive side, and with that, I want an offensive minded head coach who can drive that from the top-down.

 

I still have Mike McCarthy high on my list (for that reason...if the Packers were to move on). McDaniels could deserve a 2nd shot and the Eagles OC has to be pretty high on lists. We need to invest a brain trust around Trubisky and work on enabling success. We have running backs to help, but he needs weapons and a good system (with consistency) so he can develop, grow, and eventually thrive. Sean Payton would have been great...but the Saints surprising resurgence takes Payton off the list.

[bmags]

If I was Pace I'd fire my pro scouting director and hire a new one. He hit on hicks and debateable on Amukamara...the rest has been worse than bad. Just consistently eating money because their cap space is always worth more than their production.

[Chisoxfn]

Brady had guys like Moss, Welker, Gronk, Deion Branch, Aaron Hernandez, Amendola that have all produced very well with him. And Brady certainly didn’t have “it” right off the bat, he was a game manager and Belicheck schemed to beat every team around a good defense.

 

Parkman clearly seems to believe that elite QBs make the WRs and even bums can look great under the elites. Not gonna bother trying to change his mind

I actually agree with the premise that in general, Brady and Favre had supbar weapons playing with them. Yes, at times they had really good players and Gronk is clearly an elite talent, but compared to Peyton Manning, who had all-time greats or Steve Young (Rice / Owens)....Favre / Brady didn't have a lot. They had more then Trubisky / Bears have though.

[Chisoxfn]

I didn't think Fox would ever be great but I didn't think he'd be this bad.

Roster helps...but I really don't like how often we've shot ourselves in the foot. Not all on Fox, but it starts at the top.

[ptatc]

I think yesterday's game was the worst I've seen from Trubisky. He was throwing too many passes behind the receivers instead of leading them. Missed a lot of first downs and led to an interception at the end.

This is the real issue. Even with the poor talent at WR, he wasn't accurate enough to give them the chance to drop the ball. His accuracy was supposed to be the thing that separated him from the others. He hasn't shown it so far. Maybe he can't read it soon enough or is pressured too much. There are a variety of reasons but he hasn't shown much yet.

[southsider2k5]

It is tough to blame this all or even mostly on coaching. This roster lacks premium talent, and they completely lack depth. If everything went right and no one at the top of the roster got hurt, it was a borderline playoff team. But with any injuries to key guys, this roster was f***ed. They need players and they need stars badly.

[soxfan49]

Trubisky threw the ball, what, 33 times yesterday, and I’d say 28 of them came in obvious pass situations. Combine his inexperience with the fact that he’s throwing to s***, there is 0% chance of success.

[thxfrthmmrs]

This is the real issue. Even with the poor talent at WR, he wasn't accurate enough to give them the chance to drop the ball. His accuracy was supposed to be the thing that separated him from the others. He hasn't shown it so far. Maybe he can't read it soon enough or is pressured too much. There are a variety of reasons but he hasn't shown much yet.

 

Yes, I am not impressed with his accuracy so far. I know lack of talent at WR is a real issue, but that isn't the only issue. I hope that is something that could be improved with experienced over time.