2017-2018 NFL Thread

[Balta1701]

I actually think John Fox did exactly what people expected him to do. The team was an utter mess under Trestman, they stopped trying, they were fighting, it was a complete s*** show. The consensus was that Fox was a professional coach, and he would get them together to put out a true effort on the field, and for the most part they did. They loved playing for him. It was rare that they came out completely flat, usually when they lost big it was because of lack of talent, 4 QB turnovers, or his conservative game management. Which many people brought up the day he was hired, so that was never a surprise. Not a single person thought Fox was the next Super Bowl coach of the Bears, he was a placeholder. The results could have been better, but the tenure wasn't a surprise IMO.

I will say one thing - I remain totally stunned that the Bears did not try to fill their QB position at all prior to the 2017 season. They knew the date they could Cut Cutler with little cap damage the second Pace took over, even with Cutler around in 2016 there was always going to be playing time for someone else since Cutler always missed a few games, and no matter what John Fox did there was basically no way they were going to turn this franchise into a winner in either the Cutler era or with a rookie, just drafted QB. It cost them $18 million in cap space this year that could have gone elsewhere and guaranteed that Fox had no shot even if he did everything right.

[Kyyle23]

I will say one thing - I remain totally stunned that the Bears did not try to fill their QB position at all prior to the 2017 season. They knew the date they could Cut Cutler with little cap damage the second Pace took over, even with Cutler around in 2016 there was always going to be playing time for someone else since Cutler always missed a few games, and no matter what John Fox did there was basically no way they were going to turn this franchise into a winner in either the Cutler era or with a rookie, just drafted QB. It cost them $18 million in cap space this year that could have gone elsewhere and guaranteed that Fox had no shot even if he did everything right.

 

2017 was the first year the Bears were out from under the huge cap hit that was built into his contract and triggered when he restructured his contract. They dealt with it until this year, which was expected

[Balta1701]

2017 was the first year the Bears were out from under the huge cap hit that was built into his contract and triggered when he restructured his contract. They dealt with it until this year, which was expected

Read the rest of the post?

 

They didn't acquire a potential replacement prior to 2017. That left them:

1. Having no developed QB on their roster who they could count on to have any shot at fielding a competitive team.

2. Way, way, way overpaying a backup QB who was totally ineffective - $18 million in cap money that could have been spent elsewhere (WR)

3. Playing a rookie QB in 2017, the year that Fox's tenure was evaluated as success or failure.

 

Had they at least tried to find a replacement in 2016, they would have had playing time for that replacement that year - Cutler always missed some games for injury and if they judged their replacement ready to play no one would have batted an eye if Cutler was benched for his last few games on a losing team.

 

All that together guaranteed Fox would be judged as a failure. No matter what else happened, in the year that they were supposed to be getting better, he was working with a rookie QB needing a lot of work, and he had a ton of his cap space wasted on a crappy backup. Guaranteed failure even if he was doing a great job.

[whitesoxjr27]

Uh-oh: George McCaskey and Ted Phillips reportedly will accompany Ryan Pace on coaching interviews

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/rosen...0103-story.html

[Kyyle23]

Read the rest of the post?

 

They didn't acquire a potential replacement prior to 2017. That left them:

1. Having no developed QB on their roster who they could count on to have any shot at fielding a competitive team.

2. Way, way, way overpaying a backup QB who was totally ineffective - $18 million in cap money that could have been spent elsewhere (WR)

3. Playing a rookie QB in 2017, the year that Fox's tenure was evaluated as success or failure.

 

Had they at least tried to find a replacement in 2016, they would have had playing time for that replacement that year - Cutler always missed some games for injury and if they judged their replacement ready to play no one would have batted an eye if Cutler was benched for his last few games on a losing team.

 

All that together guaranteed Fox would be judged as a failure. No matter what else happened, in the year that they were supposed to be getting better, he was working with a rookie QB needing a lot of work, and he had a ton of his cap space wasted on a crappy backup. Guaranteed failure even if he was doing a great job.

 

i read it all, your premise was flawed because the bears werent gonna eat that cap hit for two years. the contract and player hamstrung the team, they made it pretty clear they were gonna hang on to him until they didnt have to.

 

 

[Balta1701]

i read it all, your premise was flawed because the bears werent gonna eat that cap hit for two years.

They did not have to eat any of it, they could have sat a backup behind Cutler in either 2015 or 2016 and still had playing time for that person. They cost themselves an EXTRA $18 million by not attempting to find someone during the 2016 season.

[Chisoxfn]

I actually think John Fox did exactly what people expected him to do. The team was an utter mess under Trestman, they stopped trying, they were fighting, it was a complete s*** show. The consensus was that Fox was a professional coach, and he would get them together to put out a true effort on the field, and for the most part they did. They loved playing for him. It was rare that they came out completely flat, usually when they lost big it was because of lack of talent, 4 QB turnovers, or his conservative game management. Which many people brought up the day he was hired, so that was never a surprise. Not a single person thought Fox was the next Super Bowl coach of the Bears, he was a placeholder. The results could have been better, but the tenure wasn't a surprise IMO.

I agree with everything you said. I think he could have taken the team to the superbowl with the right talent (he's proven that he isn't going to get in the way of a good team). Basically he's proven to be a more than competent head coach. I laugh at people who call him the worst coach in franchise history. It is laughable at best. Did he win enough games, no, did they have some letdowns, sure, but they also had minimal talent. This team did not underperform under John Fox...period. Players actually developed under Fox, culture improved, players played. I realize people think that is a given but it is not in this league. He had zero shot at exceeding / excelling with the Bears and I feel for John for that reason. The only major mistake I'd pin on him is possibly Loggains, however, even then, I don't think the Bears ruined Trubisky with their development. I think the Browns ruined any chance with Kizer with how they handled him. That said, Trubisky was never going to make Loggains look good (THIS YEAR). Wasn't happening.

 

Odds are whoever we hire will be a worse head coach then John Fox...that said, they very well might have a better record (cause they have more talent). Now Jack Del Rio, he is not a good head coach. The lockeroom was a disaster in Oakland, they had made numerous poor decisions with coordinators, and the team flat out had talent (even with injuries). John Fox in Oakland would actually do better then Jon Gruden. We'll never see it happen but he would. I actually think Oakland would be a tremendous fit for Fox. Fox would bring a very good OC (historically he's proven that...one mediocre guy in Loggains doesn't just mean the past umpteen years of doing things right are ignored...mistakes are made, sometimes you bring in the wrong guy) and he'd get those guys playing hard. Fox has his faults too, don't get me wrong, but the Bears are in a better spot today because of Fox and I think with the right coach and right moves by Pace are headed towards a bright future. They are going to have to get really creative at wideout though (I presume they will take Ridley).

[Kyyle23]

They did not have to eat any of it, they could have sat a backup behind Cutler in either 2015 or 2016 and still had playing time for that person. They cost themselves an EXTRA $18 million by not attempting to find someone during the 2016 season.

 

Oh yea, that would have been a GREAT idea with Cutler. LMAO.

 

Look, they tried to trade up for both Mariota and Wentz and didnt get it done. They dealt with Cutler and his b**** attitude for 2 seasons, like they said they would, then they moved on. you think your way was better, but it didnt happen because of Cutler and the money he was owed.

[Chisoxfn]

I will say one thing - I remain totally stunned that the Bears did not try to fill their QB position at all prior to the 2017 season. They knew the date they could Cut Cutler with little cap damage the second Pace took over, even with Cutler around in 2016 there was always going to be playing time for someone else since Cutler always missed a few games, and no matter what John Fox did there was basically no way they were going to turn this franchise into a winner in either the Cutler era or with a rookie, just drafted QB. It cost them $18 million in cap space this year that could have gone elsewhere and guaranteed that Fox had no shot even if he did everything right.

Yes; This x 1000.

[Balta1701]

Oh yea, that would have been a GREAT idea with Cutler. LMAO

Frankly f*** Cutler. He wants to pout because he's being paid $18 million in 2016 while his replacement is on the roster and he's still starting most of the year? Oh darn.

[Kyyle23]

Frankly f*** Cutler. He wants to pout because he's being paid $18 million in 2016 while his replacement is on the roster and he's still starting most of the year? Oh darn.

 

Well yea, you dont have to deal with it so no big deal. It is a brilliant idea when you are trying to rebuild your locker room culture to turn loose a known cranky asshole who you have no choice but to deal with. Thats just what Fox wanted to do

[Chisoxfn]

Oh yea, that would have been a GREAT idea with Cutler. LMAO.

 

Look, they tried to trade up for both Mariota and Wentz and didnt get it done. They dealt with Cutler and his b**** attitude for 2 seasons, like they said they would, then they moved on. you think your way was better, but it didnt happen because of Cutler and the money he was owed.

I think you are right that they tried. It wasn't like the Bears had a full deck (and were picking #1/#2 and passed up on guys to keep Cutler). They went after Mariotta and Wentz, but ultimately didn't have the ammo to make those moves. The reality is the 1st real good opportunity they had the chance (this past year when we had a really really high pick), Pace went and got his QB. I also think because it was year 3 and he had missed the guys he wanted the 2 years before (because he didn't have the luxury of picking so high in the draft), that he was not going to miss out and that was why he moved up to #2 (to guarantee he wasn't in a panic mode again and going another season without having the QB of the future on the roster).

 

The team probably got bit too that after that 1st year (where I truly believe they wanted to move Jay but needed another option) but then he played well under Gase. I think if Pace did it all over again (and probably Fox), the biggest thing they would redo is they would have dealt Jay for anything (or cut him) in that initial year and just tanked. Get the high pick the following year and take the QB and build from there.

[bmags]

Bigger miss wasn't necessarily Mariota and Wentz, that tradeup could have been substantial, as much as not using some 4th rounders on a guy like Connor Cook, Dak or Kevin Hogan in 2016. Brett Hundley in 2015.

 

Less that any of those guys hit, but was just surprising lack of draft capital on any sort of QB. But I'd rather they feel good about a guy than just draft for position sake.

[southsider2k5]

Josina Anderson‏Verified account @JosinaAnderson 41m41 minutes ago #Vikings defensive coordinator George Edwards is interviewing with the #Bears Thursday, per source.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Chicago BearsVerified account @ChicagoBears #Bears GM Ryan Pace interviewed Vic Fangio for the head coaching position today. 0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes

[Balta1701]

Bigger miss wasn't necessarily Mariota and Wentz, that tradeup could have been substantial, as much as not using some 4th rounders on a guy like Connor Cook, Dak or Kevin Hogan in 2016. Brett Hundley in 2015.

 

Less that any of those guys hit, but was just surprising lack of draft capital on any sort of QB. But I'd rather they feel good about a guy than just draft for position sake.

And if that guy served as a backup for 2 years, they could still have drafted Trubisky last year and saved themselves $18 million in the process. And maybe they wind up with a guy like Dak who totally takes the job and holds it, or a guy who turns himself into a tradeable asset after a good 2017.

[Texsox]

From a distance (correct me if I'm wrong) it looked like the Bear's job was a bad deal when Fox took it and he helped, along with player's natural development, into a good to great gig for the next guy. Not quite Doug Collins setting the table for Phil Jackson good, but decent nevertheless.

[LittleHurt05]

From a distance (correct me if I'm wrong) it looked like the Bear's job was a bad deal when Fox took it and he helped, along with player's natural development, into a good to great gig for the next guy. Not quite Doug Collins setting the table for Phil Jackson good, but decent nevertheless.

 

That's not the worst comparison. He did help with some defensive players. Until he was given a possible franchise QB in year 3 and refused to let him throw the ball.

 

[LittleHurt05]

Speaking of that, Gase hired Loggins in Miami, LOL

[Big Hurtin]

Yeah, it's hard to figure out. On one hand, it could be working with a fallacy that because the first four failed (am I missing any from Crennel, Weis, Mangini, McDaniels) all will fail.

 

A. Bellichick is a micromanager

 

B. Ernie Adams is more valuable on his staff than any coordinator or coach

 

 

[bmags]

Saw this on twitter when walking and lost it now.

 

I hate Kaplan, but he tweeted out that the Chiefs were in love with Trubisky pre-draft, especially Nagy. And Nagy has kept in touch with Trubs.

 

That could end up being big.

[Dick Allen]

Saw this on twitter when walking and lost it now.

 

I hate Kaplan, but he tweeted out that the Chiefs were in love with Trubisky pre-draft, especially Nagy. And Nagy has kept in touch with Trubs.

 

That could end up being big.

Any of these names who don't think Trubisky is a future franchise QB have zero chance of being hired. So put him at the top of the list.

[bmags]

Any of these names who don't think Trubisky is a future franchise QB have zero chance of being hired. So put him at the top of the list.

 

Obviously all will say they like Trubisky. But McVay had opportunity due to the redskins not being in the playoffs to hang around with Goff and hit it off.

 

That Nagy has a prior relationship that has been ongoing is going to be very helpful for him. Would be very surprised if Trubisky isn't brought into round 2s just like Goff was.

[Chisoxfn]

Obviously all will say they like Trubisky. But McVay had opportunity due to the redskins not being in the playoffs to hang around with Goff and hit it off.

 

That Nagy has a prior relationship that has been ongoing is going to be very helpful for him. Would be very surprised if Trubisky isn't brought into round 2s just like Goff was.

Living out on the west coast, I don't believe McVay and Goff hit it off. In fact, there were major open questions about Goff being the starter throughout the preseason. No one knew whether Goff was a McVay guy or not. Goff was so bad last year that I think even the Rams front office was pretty uncertain regarding Goff's long-term potential. At least that is what most of the reports said leading up to the regular season. A lot of people were expecting Mannion to be the starter at some point in the season.

[bmags]

Living out on the west coast, I don't believe McVay and Goff hit it off. In fact, there were major open questions about Goff being the starter throughout the preseason. No one knew whether Goff was a McVay guy or not. Goff was so bad last year that I think even the Rams front office was pretty uncertain regarding Goff's long-term potential. At least that is what most of the reports said leading up to the regular season. A lot of people were expecting Mannion to be the starter at some point in the season.

 

McVay went on Rich Eisens show and talked about how he spent time in the interview process breaking down film with Goff and showing how he could help. That was essentially the reason he was hired.

 

https://247sports.com/nfl/los-angeles-rams/...w-with-74900039