Long term roster and lineup projection

[Lillian]

Although it's very early to be projecting 2020's roster and lineup, could we have some fun? You guys were very forthcoming in the thread on next year's projected roster, so what the hell, why not?

 

In addition to all of the future trades, high draft picks and free agent signings, here is a possible lineup, with an accompanying rationale:

 

 

CF Robert RH

LF Rutherford LH

2B Moncada SW

RF Jimenez RH

DH Abreu RH

1B Sheets LH / Gillaspie SW

3B Burger RH

C Collins LH

SS Anderson RH

 

The lineup is intended to stagger the right and left handed hitters:

 

Robert leads off, because he is purported to have the speed, on base and base running skills for the spot

 

Rutherford is slotted in the #2 hole, as he possesses good pitch recognition, patience and contact skills. He could be proficient at executing the hit and run, and have enough speed, from the left side to stay out of double plays. So far, he has not demonstrated the power, but that may play just fine, in a lineup that has power potential at every position.

 

Moncada provides power and speed, along with the ability to hit from either side of the plate

 

Jimenez profiles as a legitimate clean up slugger, with the ability to also hit for average

 

Abreu still belongs somewhere in the heart of the order, with veteran leadership and RBI skills

 

Sheets or Gillaspie provide a left handed bat, to sandwich between three right handed sluggers

 

Burger could be a real effective weapon, kicking off the bottom third of the order.

 

Collins provides another left handed bat with power and high OBP skills

 

Anderson provides speed and some pop at the bottom of the order.

 

If neither Gillaspie, nor Sheets develops, Adolfo could end up in RF, with Jimenez moving to first.

 

Hopefully, Avi, Davidson and perhaps another one, or two, current players will perform well enough to net a couple of useful pieces to augment this list.

 

I'm very interested to get your takes. Let's do the pitching in a separate thread.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Lillian

[turnin' two]

Fun! Love how you set up your lineup. Of course there will be surprises and guys not completely panning out, but anyways...

 

Moncada 2B, -- Great speed, good power, good OBP, start the opposition off terrified.

Rutheford RF/CF -- Good swing, projects for great contact and some power (personally not worried about lack of HRs yet at all. Tons of 2B, first full pro season, more will translate)

Jimenez LF -- Big power, great contact, high OBP, seems like he could be a prototypical 3 hitter for a long time.

Abreu DH -- Dude can hit. I don't think that is going to change any time soon. Stable veteran presence in the middle of the order.

Burger 3B -- Good power, good average, good OBP, off to a great start, I'm hoping it is a sign of things to come.

Avi Garcia 1B -- Let's hope this isn't a mirage! If Avi keeps it together, or -gasp- even gets better, wow! Otherwise Gillaspie or Sheets (or even Collins) could fit in this spot.

Robert/ Adolfo CF/RF -- Either could be great. Power, Speed (moreso for Robert obviously), lots of 2B, plenty of HR, either could be very dangerous. Nice to have both to go with Jimenez and Rutheford. This time last year, Call and Fisher would have been here, and they still may, but these guys have astronomical ceilings.

Collins C -- Great OBP. Great Power. This time last year I bet we were hoping he would develop into a 3 hitter. He still may, but his bat 8th would be quite intimidating.

Anderson SS -- Good power and speed combo. Doesn't need high avg or OBP here. When he gets on he sets the table and can get the SB when needed.

 

There is a bit of flexibility here which is even better. Guys like Leury, Smith, DelMonico and Davidson could keep themselves in the lineup. Guys like Engel and Sanchez (or Saladino) are perfect bench pieces. Some other prospects will join the system, others will play themselves up, and likely some others out. Guys like Abreu and Avi could easily be traded loading up even more on prospects, but personally I like having a couple veteran bats in the lineup to bolster the kids.

 

This is a fun exercise, and who knows how these kids are going to develop, but right now there is a lot of depth at several positions. There are probably 6 guys in this lineup that could end up as that "3 hitter" type player. And the pitching may even be better. If these guys hit their projections, this should be a fun team for quite a while, but that is obvious, and kind of the point of this whole deal.

Edited August 4, 2017 by turnin' two

[steveno89]

Fun! Love how you set up your lineup. Of course there will be surprises and guys not completely panning out, but anyways...

 

Moncada 2B, -- Great speed, good power, good OBP, start the opposition off terrified.

Rutheford RF/CF -- Good swing, projects for great contact and some power (personally not worried about lack of HRs yet at all. Tons of 2B, first full pro season, more will translate)

Jimenez LF -- Big power, great contact, high OBP, seems like he could be a prototypical 3 hitter for a long time.

Abreu DH -- Dude can hit. I don't think that is going to change any time soon. Stable veteran presence in the middle of the order.

Burger 3B -- Good power, good average, good OBP, off to a great start, I'm hoping it is a sign of things to come.

Avi Garcia 1B -- Let's hope this isn't a mirage! If Avi keeps it together, or -gasp- even gets better, wow! Otherwise Gillaspie or Sheets (or even Collins) could fit in this spot.

Robert/ Adolfo CF/RF -- Either could be great. Power, Speed (moreso for Robert obviously), lots of 2B, plenty of HR, either could be very dangerous. Nice to have both to go with Jimenez and Rutheford. This time last year, Call and Fisher would have been here, and they still may, but these guys have astronomical ceilings.

Collins C -- Great OBP. Great Power. This time last year I bet we were hoping he would develop into a 3 hitter. He still may, but his bat 8th would be quite intimidating.

Anderson SS -- Good power and speed combo. Doesn't need high avg or OBP here. When he gets on he sets the table and can get the SB when needed.

 

There is a bit of flexibility here which is even better. Guys like Leury, Smith, DelMonico and Davidson could keep themselves in the lineup. Guys like Engel and Sanchez (or Saladino) are perfect bench pieces. Some other prospects will join the system, others will play themselves up, and likely some others out. Guys like Abreu and Avi could easily be traded loading up even more on prospects, but personally I like having a couple veteran bats in the lineup to bolster the kids.

 

This is a fun exercise, and who knows how these kids are going to develop, but right now there is a lot of depth at several positions. There are probably 6 guys in this lineup that could end up as that "3 hitter" type player. And the pitching may even be better. If these guys hit their projections, this should be a fun team for quite a while, but that is obvious, and kind of the point of this whole deal.

 

Not sure if players like Burger/Sheets/Rutherford will be ready until mid/end of the 2020 season for the majors. All are just in low A ball right now with three levels to climb in the next two seasons. Nearly everythign would have to break right for them as well.

[Lillian]

Just to follow up, and in response to the concerns about prematurely expecting the prospects to produce by 2020, here are their projected ages, in 2020 and the MLB Pipeline anticipated "ETA's":

 

Moncada 25 ETA: 2017

Jimenez 23 ETA: 2019

Robert 23 ETA: 2020

Rutherford 23 ETA: 2020

Burger 24 ETA: 2020

Collins 25 ETA: 2018

Gillaspie 27 ETA: 2017

Sheets 24 ETA: 2020

 

 

Kopech 24 ETA: 2018

Giolito 26 ETA: 2017

Lopez 26 ETA: 2017

Dunning 25 ETA: 2019

Hansen 25 ETA: 2019

Guerrero 26 ETA: 2018

Cease 24 ETA: 2019

 

The 3 youngest guys; Jimenez, Robert and Rutherford would be 23. Guys as highly regarded as Jimenez and Robert often succeed by age 23. If they are truly elite prospects, they could very well be ready.

[beautox]

I think there is a good chance that a fair amount of those prospects beat those ETAs.

 

as for '20 this is what i see if the sox have a similar success rate as the cubs.

 

CF - Robert

2B - Moncada#

LF - Jimenez

1B - Gillaspie# or Sheets*

3B - Burger

C - Collins*

DH - Abreu

SS - Garcia#

RF - Rutherford* or Adolfo or Basabe# or Call or Gonzalez

 

SP - Kopech

SP - Rodon*

SP - Lopez

SP - Guerrero*

SP - Giolito

 

CL - Burdi

SU - Fulmer

SU - Stephens

MR - Goldberg

LO - Bummer

 

I think the sox lock up Leury to a reasonable contract extension and TA becomes our version of Castro.

 

 

[Dam8610]

These lineups and pitching staffs look fantastic, and the best part is most of them leave off several legitimate prospects and none of them include slotting in things like "2018 First Round pick" or "2019 First Round pick", both of which should also add tremendously talented players to the system. If things break well for the White Sox, this could be a dynasty. Even getting average breaks, this team should be a playoff contender for many years starting in the early 2020s.

[Chicago White Sox]

2020 Lineup

 

1. Robert, CF

2. Moncada#, 2B

3. Jimenez, RF

4. Arenado, 3B (FA)

5. Abreu, DH

6. Collins*, C

7. Burger, 1B

8. Rutherford*, LF

9. Anderson, SS

 

IF: Escobar# (FA)

OF: Gonzalez*

UT: Delmonico*

BC: Flowers (FA)

 

SP: Kopech

SP: Rodon*

SP: Lopez

SP: Giolito

SP: Hansen

 

CL: Burdi

SU: Wilson* (FA)

SU: Cease

MR: Fulmer

MR: Bummer*

MR: Stephens

LR: Dunning

[Lillian]

I think there is a good chance that a fair amount of those prospects beat those ETAs.

 

as for '20 this is what i see if the sox have a similar success rate as the cubs.

 

CF - Robert

2B - Moncada#

LF - Jimenez

1B - Gillaspie# or Sheets*

3B - Burger

C - Collins*

DH - Abreu

SS - Garcia#

RF - Rutherford* or Adolfo or Basabe# or Call or Gonzalez

 

SP - Kopech

SP - Rodon*

SP - Lopez

SP - Guerrero*

SP - Giolito

 

CL - Burdi

SU - Fulmer

SU - Stephens

MR - Goldberg

LO - Bummer

 

I think the sox lock up Leury to a reasonable contract extension and TA becomes our version of Castro.

 

Locking up Leury has been an intriguing possibility to me, as well. I also agree that he now belongs back at SS. He was always regarded as a very good defensive SS, and the Sox now have plenty of outfielders. With Leury as our back up SS, or even our #1, if Anderson fails to put it all together, the Sox would have that position pretty well covered. They could certainly do worse than a productive switch hitter, with speed and he is still only 26.

 

Where are Hansen, Dunning and Cease?

Edited August 5, 2017 by Lillian

[caulfield12]

Arenado's going to get paid the GDP of Aruba by someone...

 

What are the reports on Burger's defense so far? Looks like three errors in 21 games, that's not bad at all for those levels.

Edited August 5, 2017 by caulfield12

[Chicago White Sox]

Arenado's going to get paid the GDP of Aruba by someone...

 

What are the reports on Burger's defense so far? Looks like three errors in 21 games, that's not bad at all for those levels.

We're going to have a ton of money to spend, so why can't it be us? The future roster I proposed had 18 pre-arb players, with no massive salaries to speak of other than Arenado. Also, Machado & Donaldson are both free agents the year before, so that will knock two big spenders off the list (although I think we'll be active with those guys as well).

 

Honestly, there are only so many spots to address and 3B seems like the best bet today based on our current needs and the potential options that should be available in the coming years.

Edited August 5, 2017 by Chicago White Sox

[caulfield12]

We're going to have a ton of money to spend, so why can't it be us? Machado & Donaldson are both free agents the year before, so that will knock two big spenders off the list (although I think we'll be active with those guys as well).

 

Honestly, there are only so many spots to address and 3B seems like the best bet today based on our current needs and the potential options that should be available in the coming years.

 

Donaldson's been hurt for most of this season and has less than 15 homers, despite Sox pitchers helping quite a bit...he's either the greatest "buy low" candidate at age 32-36, or a disaster in waiting, along the lines of Dunn and LaRoche at similar ages.

 

We actually haven't had much luck with vets in this age range since 2003-2005, unless you also want to consider Thome a net success. Still, longer than a decade.

[Chicago White Sox]

Donaldson's been hurt for most of this season and has less than 15 homers, despite Sox pitchers helping quite a bit...he's either the greatest "buy low" candidate at age 32-36, or a disaster in waiting, along the lines of Dunn and LaRoche at similar ages.

 

We actually haven't had much luck with vets in this age range since 2003-2005, unless you also want to consider Thome a net success. Still, longer than a decade.

I'll see how he does in 2018, but assuming the production is there, I'd be willing to go multiple years with him. The beauty of Donaldson is his production can fall off a bit and he can still be a quality hitter. Even in a down year, he'd be around the 45th best hitter based on wRC+. And we'd have the luxury of moving him to 1B if his defense starting slipping.

 

And let's not compare Donaldson to Dunn or LaRoche as Josh is an elite, well-rounded hitter.

 

 

[beautox]

Locking up Leury has been an intriguing possibility to me, as well. I also agree that he now belongs back at SS. He was always regarded as a very good defensive SS, and the Sox now have plenty of outfielders. With Leury as our back up SS, or even our #1, if Anderson fails to put it all together, the Sox would have that position pretty well covered. They could certainly do worse than a productive switch hitter, with speed and he is still only 26.

 

Where are Hansen, Dunning and Cease?

 

I think the FO are more inclined to buy into Leury over Avisail. Leury can play all three outfield spots very competently as well as SS, 2B & 3B and doesn't have the same injury history. Both of them are 26 but Leury has three years of ARB ahead of him where as Avisail only has two and hes a super 2 so its possible he'll make a combined 18M+ over the next two years. I think a deal similar but slightly less than Kolten Wong or Jose Ramirez gets it done. Locking up Leury on the cheap and possibly front loading it in terms of a bonus would be smart, 4 guaranteed with two options. Doing that would give in house insurance in case Anderson or others busts while offering a cheap average to slightly above regular across the diamond.

 

Here is what average production looks like at positions Leury could play at.

 

SS - .260/.314/.411 - .725 wRC+ 89, 6.9BB% & 18.9K%

 

CF - .266/.334/.436 - .771 wRC+ 103, 8.5BB% & 21.8K%

 

RF - .264/.340/.456 - .796 wRC+ 109, 9.6BB% & 21.5K%

 

LF - .258/.329/.428 - .757 wRC+ 99, 8.8BB% & 21.6K%

 

3B - .258/.330/.444 - .775 wRC+ 103, 9BB% & 20.4K%

 

2B - .268/.331/.420 - .751 wRC+ 97, 7.6BB% & 18K%

 

 

Leury this year .288/.339/.454 - .793 wRC+ 111, 4.8BB% 18.5K% and he is above average in every facet of the game.

 

 

Hansen and Dunning would be waiting at AAA to crack a stacked rotation as depth or moved for a piece, Cease would likely be pushing AAA mid season, maybe.

 

 

[steveno89]

I think the FO are more inclined to buy into Leury over Avisail. Leury can play all three outfield spots very competently as well as SS, 2B & 3B and doesn't have the same injury history. Both of them are 26 but Leury has three years of ARB ahead of him where as Avisail only has two and hes a super 2 so its possible he'll make a combined 18M+ over the next two years. I think a deal similar but slightly less than Kolten Wong or Jose Ramirez gets it done. Locking up Leury on the cheap and possibly front loading it in terms of a bonus would be smart, 4 guaranteed with two options. Doing that would give in house insurance in case Anderson or others busts while offering a cheap average to slightly above regular across the diamond.

 

Here is what average production looks like at positions Leury could play at.

 

SS - .260/.314/.411 - .725 wRC+ 89, 6.9BB% & 18.9K%

 

CF - .266/.334/.436 - .771 wRC+ 103, 8.5BB% & 21.8K%

 

RF - .264/.340/.456 - .796 wRC+ 109, 9.6BB% & 21.5K%

 

LF - .258/.329/.428 - .757 wRC+ 99, 8.8BB% & 21.6K%

 

3B - .258/.330/.444 - .775 wRC+ 103, 9BB% & 20.4K%

 

2B - .268/.331/.420 - .751 wRC+ 97, 7.6BB% & 18K%

 

 

Leury this year .288/.339/.454 - .793 wRC+ 111, 4.8BB% 18.5K% and he is above average in every facet of the game.

 

 

Hansen and Dunning would be waiting at AAA to crack a stacked rotation as depth or moved for a piece, Cease would likely be pushing AAA mid season, maybe.

 

Hansen and dunning should both be major league ready after two more full seasons in the minors.

 

Surprised everyone is so quick to give up on Adams and not include him in the pricing staff. He's only 21 years old and pitching in AA. Considering he might still have some growth and projection left in him I feel he is a prospect to watch.

[Rowand44]

I think all those ETA's are fair, Lillian. That said I think Burger is here before 2020. I really believe that dude is going to fly through the system. No clue if he's going to be a successful major leaguer or not but he's going to destroy the minors imo.

[Chicago White Sox]

Hansen and dunning should both be major league ready after two more full seasons in the minors.

 

Surprised everyone is so quick to give up on Adams and not include him in the pricing staff. He's only 21 years old and pitching in AA. Considering he might still have some growth and projection left in him I feel he is a prospect to watch.

Here's the problem. I fully expect Lopez & Giolito to be in the rotation to start next year along with Rodon. At some point, Kopech will force his way into rotation as well. Assumes all goes well (unlikely I know), that basically leaves one spot for Adams, Stephens, or Guerrero for 2018/2019 before Hansen & Dunning start pushing for spots. I think Adams will end up being a quality #4 starter, but it might not be with us. He'll need to grab any opportunity presented and run with it or else some of the higher ceiling guys will take his spot.

[Rowand44]

Here's the problem. I fully expect Lopez & Giolito to be in the rotation to start next year along with Rodon. At some point, Kopech will force his way into rotation as well. Assumes all goes well (unlikely I know), that basically leaves one spot for Adams, Stephens, or Guerrero for 2018/2019 before Hansen & Dunning start pushing for spots. I think Adams will end up being a quality #4 starter, but it might not be with us. He'll need to grab any opportunity presented and run with it or else some of the higher ceiling guys will take his spot.

Rodon might be trade bait at some point too. Obviously I don't know if that will happen but that could open up a rotation spot as well.

[Lillian]

Yes, of course we have several prospects who may be adequate bottom of the rotation starters. But just think what it would be like to have top of the rotation potential, at every slot. So far, I think Rodon and Kopech are the only two guys, whom I see as #1's. If we end up with too many guys of that caliber, they can be traded or employed as dominant relievers. And, when you factor in injuries and disappointments, we may end up with less than we anticipate. I just think that it's hard to have too much pitching.

Edited August 5, 2017 by Lillian

[Quin]

Yes, of course we have several prospects who may be adequate bottom of the rotation starters. But just think what it would be like to have top of the rotation potential, at every slot. So far, I think Rodon and Kopech are the only two guys, whom I see as #1's. If we end up with too many guys of that caliber, they can be traded or employed as dominant relievers. And, when you factor in injuries and disappointments, we may end up with less than we anticipate. I just think that it's hard to have too much pitching.

 

I think Rodon, Kopech, Hansen and Giolito all have #1 potential (in order of most likely to reach that potential) and Lopez has high #2 upside.

[Sox Fan In Husker Land]

I have no idea what the lineup will look like in 3+ years, but we have a boatload of talent to potentially pencil in there. We don't know who is going to make it as a prospect, and who is going to flame out, but there are so many talented players we have now it's just awesome to ponder. Look at all this talent, and that doesn't even include a top 3 pick in the 2018 draft and another high pick in the 2019 draft or any potential free agents the Sox could sign. For 2020 the Sox only have $4 million in guaranteed salary to Tim Anderson, so they would have tons of $ available to sign any roster holes they may have.

 

CF - Robert R

LF - Rutherford L

2B - Moncada S

RF - Jimenez R

3B - Burger R

1B - Sheets L

DH - Adolfo R

C - Collins L

SS - Anderson R

 

Bench

C - Narvaez L

C - Smith R

1B - Gillaspie S

UTI - L. Garcia S

UTI - Saladino R

UTI - Sanchez S

UTI - Davidson R

OF - Delmonico L

OF - Tilson L

OF - Basabe S

OF - Cordell R

 

 

SP - Kopech R

SP - Rodon L

SP - Lopez R

SP - Hansen R

SP - Giolito R

 

BP - Jones R

BP - Adams R

BP - Burdi R

BP - Cease R

BP - Dunning R

BP - Fulmer R

BP - Clarkin L

BP - Guerrero L

BP - Bummer L

BP - Stephens

BP - Puckett

 

The future looks extremely promising.

[thxfrthmmrs]

I have no idea what the lineup will look like in 3+ years, but we have a boatload of talent to potentially pencil in there. We don't know who is going to make it as a prospect, and who is going to flame out, but there are so many talented players we have now it's just awesome to ponder. Look at all this talent, and that doesn't even include a top 3 pick in the 2018 draft and another high pick in the 2019 draft or any potential free agents the Sox could sign. For 2020 the Sox only have $4 million in guaranteed salary to Tim Anderson, so they would have tons of $ available to sign any roster holes they may have.

 

CF - Robert R

LF - Rutherford L

2B - Moncada S

RF - Jimenez R

3B - Burger R

1B - Sheets L

DH - Adolfo R

C - Collins L

SS - Anderson R

 

Bench

C - Narvaez L

C - Smith R

1B - Gillaspie S

UTI - L. Garcia S

UTI - Saladino R

UTI - Sanchez S

UTI - Davidson R

OF - Delmonico L

OF - Tilson L

OF - Basabe S

OF - Cordell R

 

 

SP - Kopech R

SP - Rodon L

SP - Lopez R

SP - Hansen R

SP - Giolito R

 

BP - Jones R

BP - Adams R

BP - Burdi R

BP - Cease R

BP - Dunning R

BP - Fulmer R

BP - Clarkin L

BP - Guerrero L

BP - Bummer L

BP - Stephens

BP - Puckett

 

The future looks extremely promising.

 

The Tilson love continues! For a guy who has had 2 AB's in in the past calendar year, I can't believe people are still penciling in a spot for him in 2020. Amazing.

 

[thxfrthmmrs]

This is an exciting topic, I will go with the most likely lineup based on how I think how the 'spects are going to pan out.

 

2B - Moncada

LF - Robert

SS - Machado

RF - Jimenez

DH - Abreu/Gillaspie

3B - Burger

1B - Adolfo/Gillaspie

C - Zavala

CF - Rutherford/FA/Draft pick

 

Bench - Delmonico, Cordell, Mendick, Collins

 

SP - Kopech

SP - Lopez

SP - Hansen

SP - Giolitto

SP - Dunning/Guerrero

 

CL - Burdi

SU - Cease

SU - Adams

SU - Bummer

SU - Fulmer

LR - Clarkin

LR - Stephens

 

 

[Sox Fan In Husker Land]

The Tilson love continues! For a guy who has had 2 AB's in in the past calendar year, I can't believe people are still penciling in a spot for him in 2020. Amazing.

 

I literally just put players that are highly rated prospects and others that the Sox have under control through the 2020 season. There's 36 players listed. I mean I even put Narvaez, Kevan Smith, Nate Jones, Saladino, & Yolmer Sanchez in there. If he can stay healthy I do think Tilson has the potential to be a bench player in the OF in the future. He's a low K, good contact, decent OB skills, speedy, LH hitter, with supposedly good defense in the OF.

 

If I had to bet on Tilson being on the Sox and being a piece (even a back up OF) in 2020 I would say no though.

[Lillian]

I think Rodon, Kopech, Hansen and Giolito all have #1 potential (in order of most likely to reach that potential) and Lopez has high #2 upside.

 

I'm with you on Hansen, but skeptical on Giolito. However, three #1's, and a bunch of #2's would be just fine. Somehow, I still think that they end up with one more

top of the rotation guy, before this rebuild is over. My dream of a starting five, which includes 4 #1's could become reality. Imagine a post season like that!!!

With two more high draft picks and Coop's ability to help develop pitchers, it seems very doable. And the bonus is that the bullpen should be absolutely "lights out,"

just with the left overs of those who don't make the rotation. Stevens, Guerrero, Dunning, Cease and Burdi are my favorites, at the moment. I don't know what to think of Fulmer.

Edited August 6, 2017 by Lillian

[ChiSox1917]

I really see Mocada as the future leadoff guy. I know he has some power, but so did Rickey, and Moncada's eye and speed are too good not to have him at the top of the lineup.

 

2b: Moncada

CF: Robert

DH: Abreu

RF: Jimenez

3B: Burger

C: Collins

1B: Sheets

LF: Rutherford

SS: Anderson

 

SP: Rodon

SP: Kopech

SP: Giolito

SP: Lopez

SP: Adams

 

Not sure Adams will be as good as Hansen or Dunning, but I think he beats them both to the majors. Wouldn't be surprised to see Kopech, Adams, Guerrero, and Stephens all getting a shot next year.