1549 Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 And Truman, Jackson, Madison, etc do? Truman and Jackson don't belong but Madison does, afterall he is considered the father of the constitution (even though that wasn't during his presidency, I still think it puts him above Reagan). I like Ronald Reagan, though I am too young to remember his presidency, when I look at it from a historical standpoint he did some good things, and certaintly showed how to deal with terrorism (just look at what happened to kadalfi's mansion), but to put Ronald Reagan or most Presidents in the same boat as Lincoln or Washington is a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1549 Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 I almost said William Henry Harrison because he didn't have time to become corrupted in office since he died 30 days in. But I went with FDR instead with much trepidation. He was quite the womanizer and there is growing evidence that they knew about Pearl Harbor before the event but the New Deal programs were revolutionary for this nation and got us out of the Great Depression. Always with the controversy Funny, I thought my avatar would cause more. LMAO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1549 Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 I almost said William Henry Harrison because he didn't have time to become corrupted in office since he died 30 days in. But I went with FDR instead with much trepidation. He was quite the womanizer and there is growing evidence that they knew about Pearl Harbor before the event but the New Deal programs were revolutionary for this nation and got us out of the Great Depression. I believe WWII, and rain pulled us out of the depression. The new deal brought many programs to this nation that I think made it a better place and helped modernize many parts of the country, but it could and did only go so far. The war really got the industry booming again, and rain brought crops back to our nations heartland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1549 Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 I almost said William Henry Harrison because he didn't have time to become corrupted in office since he died 30 days in. But I went with FDR instead with much trepidation. He was quite the womanizer and there is growing evidence that they knew about Pearl Harbor before the event but the New Deal programs were revolutionary for this nation and got us out of the Great Depression. The New Deal was the worst thing that's ever happen to this country. It created the wonderful welfare state that we live in today. Things that were never promised under the New Deal are now "expected" to be paid for, i.e. prescription drugs, college tuition, etc. It created the "Lazy American." I'll give you that it maybe was good on it's face , but it's snowballed into a huge mistake. Look up many of the new deal programs and tell me how they fit under the term 'lazy'. Then after that look at Americas financial situation cerca 1933, then write us up a plan on how America can deal with that financial situation. Any plan to bail a country out is going to call for some 'outside of the box' thinking. Though you may disagree with how FDR did it, the fact is he did it, and though you may not like our current state here in America, we still are the greatest nation in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1549 Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 I almost said William Henry Harrison because he didn't have time to become corrupted in office since he died 30 days in. But I went with FDR instead with much trepidation. He was quite the womanizer and there is growing evidence that they knew about Pearl Harbor before the event but the New Deal programs were revolutionary for this nation and got us out of the Great Depression. The New Deal was the worst thing that's ever happen to this country. It created the wonderful welfare state that we live in today. Things that were never promised under the New Deal are now "expected" to be paid for, i.e. prescription drugs, college tuition, etc. It created the "Lazy American." I'll give you that it maybe was good on it's face , but it's snowballed into a huge mistake. Mr. Republican, and YAFer? , I must totally disagree with your assessment of the New Deal, totally and categoricaly I am wondering if you are poor and a true beliver or some from money who disagrees with the New deal. I ask not to fight and have conflict, but to get a fuller picture. I am white collar but working class, from working class, in two professsons (clergy and law) with a masters degree and much expeirnece in social work. Just to share my demographic picture as I ask for your. Was raised by generations of republicans. You proclaim yourself a Republican - I am a democrat, Again, not to conflict - we all speak out of our experience and I have shared mine, am wondering as to yours to further know and repect one another. CW did you see that thread I addressed to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted October 1, 2003 Author Share Posted October 1, 2003 TOP 3: Bill Clinton George Washinton Abe Lincoln Can you explain why Clinton is in your top 3, I would really like to know your reasoning behind this. BECUASE I think he did a good job handeling the country for 8 yeats and he is one of the few presidents that didnt have a major promblem under his term.....AND he I was only alive for 3 presidents so maybe thats also why I like clinton and think he did a good job Dont you think that a married president getting his dick sucked by his intern is a scandal? I sure do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1549 Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 TOP 3: Bill Clinton George Washinton Abe Lincoln Can you explain why Clinton is in your top 3, I would really like to know your reasoning behind this. BECUASE I think he did a good job handeling the country for 8 yeats and he is one of the few presidents that didnt have a major promblem under his term.....AND he I was only alive for 3 presidents so maybe thats also why I like clinton and think he did a good job Dont you think that a married president getting his dick sucked by his intern is a scandal? I sure do... Maybe she was just fixing his fly, and a sperm sample Clinton planned on donating fell over on her dress...yeah thats it, just fixing the fly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Dont you think that a married president getting his dick sucked by his intern is a scandal? I sure do... I think an administration that makes comments that Al Qaeda and Saddam are working together and later saying they didn't; outing a CIA agent in the field; lies about nuclear materials in Iraq from Africa; killing 300+ Americans and thousands of Iraqis for no official reason yet etc. etc. is a much bigger scandal than a cock slobbering. But I digress.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Be Good Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 TOP 3: Bill Clinton George Washinton Abe Lincoln Can you explain why Clinton is in your top 3, I would really like to know your reasoning behind this. BECUASE I think he did a good job handeling the country for 8 yeats and he is one of the few presidents that didnt have a major promblem under his term.....AND he I was only alive for 3 presidents so maybe thats also why I like clinton and think he did a good job Dont you think that a married president getting his dick sucked by his intern is a scandal? I sure do... Maybe she was just fixing his fly, and a sperm sample Clinton planned on donating fell over on her dress...yeah thats it, just fixing the fly YA only fixin it thats all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreye Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 I almost said William Henry Harrison because he didn't have time to become corrupted in office since he died 30 days in. But I went with FDR instead with much trepidation. He was quite the womanizer and there is growing evidence that they knew about Pearl Harbor before the event but the New Deal programs were revolutionary for this nation and got us out of the Great Depression. The New Deal was the worst thing that's ever happen to this country. It created the wonderful welfare state that we live in today. Things that were never promised under the New Deal are now "expected" to be paid for, i.e. prescription drugs, college tuition, etc. It created the "Lazy American." I'll give you that it maybe was good on it's face , but it's snowballed into a huge mistake. Mr. Republican, and YAFer? , I must totally disagree with your assessment of the New Deal, totally and categoricaly I am wondering if you are poor and a true beliver or some from money who disagrees with the New deal. I ask not to fight and have conflict, but to get a fuller picture. I am white collar but working class, from working class, in two professsons (clergy and law) with a masters degree and much expeirnece in social work. Just to share my demographic picture as I ask for your. Was raised by generations of republicans. You proclaim yourself a Republican - I am a democrat, Again, not to conflict - we all speak out of our experience and I have shared mine, am wondering as to yours to further know and repect one another. I am also in a white collar job, but really blue collar. No college. Worked construction (non-union), manager at a Home Center, drove a tractor-trailer for 3 years (also non-union). I was raised by a non voting, Democratic, Inland steel mill crane operator, union member Grandfather. NO, definitely not from money. That one makes me laugh. I commend your social work. Before someone here makes me out to be a heartless bastard, let me explain some things: I agree there are people that need welfare. I agree there are people that need social workers like you. I believe there are many people that abuse this system. I also believe that there are people that convince "victims" to go on welfare or to get govt. help when they are perfectly capable of helping themselves, and then become dependent upon that same help, which causes them to have less self worth. I believe in the goodness of Americans. It was shown on 9-11. I believe in the strength of the American people to get up off the ground and help themselves when pushed to the limit. That instinct is damaged when they become dependent on government. Many are being taught how to get money from the govt., which is fine, but we need to continue that education and teach them hoe to help themselves. How many stories have you heard. In fact, how many people on these boards have a story about how their Great Grandfather came to the U.S. with nothing and worked his ass off, and now has his own business? All on his own. No Government. No welfare. No tax subsidies. It CAN be done. Does this mean I disagree with ALL govt. assistance? No, but there needs to be tighter lid on some of the assistance we give - to our own and to other countries. Cw, I know you don't mean to conflict. You never do. You handle yourself well on these boards at all times. I consider you a friend. (Though we can't seem to ever meat up.) We get heated at times, but that's bound to happen when we believe in what we believe so strongly. I love a good debate. What I don't like is name calling and accusations, which happens all too often sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 I almost said William Henry Harrison because he didn't have time to become corrupted in office since he died 30 days in. But I went with FDR instead with much trepidation. He was quite the womanizer and there is growing evidence that they knew about Pearl Harbor before the event but the New Deal programs were revolutionary for this nation and got us out of the Great Depression. The New Deal was the worst thing that's ever happen to this country. It created the wonderful welfare state that we live in today. Things that were never promised under the New Deal are now "expected" to be paid for, i.e. prescription drugs, college tuition, etc. It created the "Lazy American." I'll give you that it maybe was good on it's face , but it's snowballed into a huge mistake. Mr. Republican, and YAFer? , I must totally disagree with your assessment of the New Deal, totally and categoricaly I am wondering if you are poor and a true beliver or some from money who disagrees with the New deal. I ask not to fight and have conflict, but to get a fuller picture. I am white collar but working class, from working class, in two professsons (clergy and law) with a masters degree and much expeirnece in social work. Just to share my demographic picture as I ask for your. Was raised by generations of republicans. You proclaim yourself a Republican - I am a democrat, Again, not to conflict - we all speak out of our experience and I have shared mine, am wondering as to yours to further know and repect one another. I am also in a white collar job, but really blue collar. No college. Worked construction (non-union), manager at a Home Center, drove a tractor-trailer for 3 years (also non-union). I was raised by a non voting, Democratic, Inland steel mill crane operator, union member Grandfather. NO, definitely not from money. That one makes me laugh. I commend your social work. Before someone here makes me out to be a heartless bastard, let me explain some things: I agree there are people that need welfare. I agree there are people that need social workers like you. I believe there are many people that abuse this system. I also believe that there are people that convince "victims" to go on welfare or to get govt. help when they are perfectly capable of helping themselves, and then become dependent upon that same help, which causes them to have less self worth. Many are being taught how to get money from the govt., which is fine, but we need to continue that education and teach them hoe to help themselves. How many stories have you heard. In fact, how many people on these boards have a story about how their Great Grandfather came to the U.S. with nothing and worked his ass off, and now has his own business? All on his own. No Government. No welfare. No tax subsidies. It CAN be done. Does this mean I disagree with ALL govt. assistance? No, but there needs to be tighter lid on some of the assistance we give - to our own and to other countries. Cw, I know you don't mean to conflict. You never do. You handle yourself well on these boards at all times. I consider you a friend. (Though we can't seem to ever meat up.) We get heated at times, but that's bound to happen when we believe in what we believe so strongly. I love a good debate. Wat I don't like is name calling and accusations, which happens all too often sometimes. You moron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreye Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 dickhead! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmmmbeeer Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Thomas Jefferson without a doubt, followed by Washington. " We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our election between economy and liberty or profusion and servitude. If we run into such debt, as that we must be taxed in our meat and in our drink, in our necessaries and our comforts, in our labors and our amusements, for our calling and our creeds...we [will] have no time to think, no means of calling our miss-managers to account but be glad to obtain subsistence by hiring ourselves to rivet their chains on the necks of our fellow-sufferers. And this is the tendency of all human governments. A departure from principle in one instance becomes a precedent ...till the bulk of society is reduced to be mere automatons of misery. And the fore-horse of this frightful team is public debt. Taxation follows that, and in its train wretchedness and oppression. " Jefferson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Mr Eye, thank you for your kind words. I was raised by a group of entenprenurial (spelling) Republicans in Chicago. My grandfather was so republican he was a precinct captian for them during the depression. Caused a scandal in the family when I went democtratic. I was an avowed enemy of the machine, worked in IVI-IPO all the time I lived in Chicago, and voted and worked for the IVI-IPO county and state (non national) slate (almost always Republican and always anti machine). Now that I live in Michigan, I am a democrat all the way. My near neighbor Hillary Rodham and I share the same experience of doing the Goldwater thing in 1964 and the Eugene McCarthy thing in 1967-1968. Those years were very pivotal at breaking a number of us away from the Republicans. The GOP today today is not the GOP of my youth. Times change and parties change, but that change has been total. In fact though both parties have lost the "big tent" approach. Where there once was roomnto disagree, it is now "for us or against us" - which is sad and why the 40% plurality of Americans refuse to identify with either party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniBob72 Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 No offense to the person who had Lincoln and Jefferson as their top two, but I had to smile when I saw that. There probably aren't two more diametrically opposed presidents in our history. Jefferson was in favor of a weak central government and a country that acted as more of a loose confederation of independent states than as a country. Lincoln, on the other hand, consolidated power in the central government and essentially ended any vestiges of states' rights. This wasn't his intention when he took office, but out of necessity, and rightly, this is what he did. I voted for Lincoln. I just have the utmost respect for the man. I sometimes need to go down to Springfield for work and never let a trip end without a visit to his home or gravesite. He was just a wonderful president and man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 I voted for Lincoln. I just have the utmost respect for the man. <clip> He was just a wonderful president and man. Which is why I voted for him too. What a remarkable man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreye Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 What a remarkable man. Yep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1549 Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 I voted for Lincoln. I just have the utmost respect for the man. He was just a wonderful president and man. Which is why I voted for him too. What a remarkable man. Amen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 No offense to the person who had Lincoln and Jefferson as their top two, but I had to smile when I saw that. There probably aren't two more diametrically opposed presidents in our history. Jefferson was in favor of a weak central government and a country that acted as more of a loose confederation of independent states than as a country. Lincoln, on the other hand, consolidated power in the central government and essentially ended any vestiges of states' rights. This wasn't his intention when he took office, but out of necessity, and rightly, this is what he did. I voted for Lincoln. I just have the utmost respect for the man. I sometimes need to go down to Springfield for work and never let a trip end without a visit to his home or gravesite. He was just a wonderful president and man. That would be me. I voted for Lincoln because of what he brought this nation through in the most trying of times. In fact, the fact that this was something he actually accomplished, as opposed to Jefferson's philosophy, was the deciding factor. Even though they were diametrically opposed, as you say, they were still both great men and even greater presidents. So smile at what you so obviously perceive as my ignorance if you must. I have my reasons for choosing those two and stick by it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yossarian Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 I think the consensus among historians is that FDR was the greatest President. My pick is Washington. I think Polk is the most underrated. Cleveland the most honest. Grant the worst. It's hard for me to say that about Grant, but because of actions and inactions during his term 100 years of second class citizenship was assured for African Americans. The assassination of Lincoln was the greatest single tragedy in our history IMO. LBJ the most tragic Presidency. He had a date with destiny and greatness but Viet Nam did him in. Nixon the most misunderstood. Clinton the worst human being. I know that'll go over big but I find the Clintons to be thoroughly excreable human beings. You want "fairness and balance." Adlai Stevenson and George McGovern. They lost their elections but they were two principled liberals. Barry Goldwater and George McGovern were two of the most principled Presidential candidates ever. Neither one wavered and both got slaughtered at the polls. Oh well the Sox are out of it, the Bears stink, the Hawks don't look much better and I don't care to get involved in anything else at the moment. Sure do like history though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 I think the consensus among historians is that FDR was the greatest President. My pick is Washington. I think Polk is the most underrated. Cleveland the most honest. Grant the worst. It's hard for me to say that about Grant, but because of actions and inactions during his term 100 years of second class citizenship was assured for African Americans. The assassination of Lincoln was the greatest single tragedy in our history IMO. LBJ the most tragic Presidency. He had a date with destiny and greatness but Viet Nam did him in. Nixon the most misunderstood. Clinton the worst human being. I know that'll go over big but I find the Clintons to be thoroughly excreable human beings. You want "fairness and balance." Adlai Stevenson and George McGovern. They lost their elections but they were two principled liberals. Barry Goldwater and George McGovern were two of the most principled Presidential candidates ever. Neither one wavered and both got slaughtered at the polls. Oh well the Sox are out of it, the Bears stink, the Hawks don't look much better and I don't care to get involved in anything else at the moment. Sure do like history though. I agree that Clinton was a bad human being but what makes him so much worse than other presidents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 I voted for Lincoln. Dude! You are sooo old! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniBob72 Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 No offense to the person who had Lincoln and Jefferson as their top two, but I had to smile when I saw that. There probably aren't two more diametrically opposed presidents in our history. Jefferson was in favor of a weak central government and a country that acted as more of a loose confederation of independent states than as a country. Lincoln, on the other hand, consolidated power in the central government and essentially ended any vestiges of states' rights. This wasn't his intention when he took office, but out of necessity, and rightly, this is what he did. I voted for Lincoln. I just have the utmost respect for the man. I sometimes need to go down to Springfield for work and never let a trip end without a visit to his home or gravesite. He was just a wonderful president and man. That would be me. I voted for Lincoln because of what he brought this nation through in the most trying of times. In fact, the fact that this was something he actually accomplished, as opposed to Jefferson's philosophy, was the deciding factor. Even though they were diametrically opposed, as you say, they were still both great men and even greater presidents. So smile at what you so obviously perceive as my ignorance if you must. I have my reasons for choosing those two and stick by it. YASNY, I in no way meant to imply I thought your choices were ignorant. Not at all. I'm just a centrist government kind of guy is all. I remember getting into a debate with my professor about the Hamilton vs. Jefferson conflict. I guess in my youth my dislike of Jefferson was a little bit stronger than was necessary! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 No offense to the person who had Lincoln and Jefferson as their top two, but I had to smile when I saw that. There probably aren't two more diametrically opposed presidents in our history. Jefferson was in favor of a weak central government and a country that acted as more of a loose confederation of independent states than as a country. Lincoln, on the other hand, consolidated power in the central government and essentially ended any vestiges of states' rights. This wasn't his intention when he took office, but out of necessity, and rightly, this is what he did. I voted for Lincoln. I just have the utmost respect for the man. I sometimes need to go down to Springfield for work and never let a trip end without a visit to his home or gravesite. He was just a wonderful president and man. That would be me. I voted for Lincoln because of what he brought this nation through in the most trying of times. In fact, the fact that this was something he actually accomplished, as opposed to Jefferson's philosophy, was the deciding factor. Even though they were diametrically opposed, as you say, they were still both great men and even greater presidents. So smile at what you so obviously perceive as my ignorance if you must. I have my reasons for choosing those two and stick by it. YASNY, I in no way meant to imply I thought your choices were ignorant. Not at all. I'm just a centrist government kind of guy is all. I remember getting into a debate with my professor about the Hamilton vs. Jefferson conflict. I guess in my youth my dislike of Jefferson was a little bit stronger than was necessary! Noted and understood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 I can't believe we've gone this far and no one has mentioned Ronald Reagan. Because he threw the economy into the s***ter? Just a hunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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