zisk Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Thoughts, comments and ideas. I've had the feeling for a while that the team could contend as early as 2019 with some small tweaks and a little luck. With Rodon looking like himself again, and Lopez, Kopech and Hansen dominating in the minors it's not inconceivable. If it happens we would probably need quick development from Eloy Jimenez as well. If he tears through AA next spring and early summer he might get his feet wet next year and be ready to contribute in 2019. One thing that could speed up the process might be a possible trade for Cardinals catcher Carson Kelly who is blocked by Molina. The Cards might want a competent back up catcher[smith?] a long term catcher {Collins ,Zav- ala} and a young starting pitcher in return but it might be worth it. A starting outfield of Eloy, Avi and Leury Garcia along with Anderson, Moncada Abreu, Davidson and Kelly might be enough to compete for a wild card and Get the fans excited sooner rather than later. The fact that Burger,Robert,Sheets Adolpho and Rutherford would be close behind for reinforcements makes it a chance worth taking. We also have a couple of high first round picks in 2018-19 alond with Jordan Stephens,Spencer Adams and Guerrero for added pitching depth in case of injuries. Tell us your plans for the future. Zisk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 QUOTE (zisk @ Aug 13, 2017 -> 11:38 AM) Thoughts, comments and ideas. I've had the feeling for a while that the team could contend as early as 2019 with some small tweaks and a little luck. With Rodon looking like himself again, and Lopez, Kopech and Hansen dominating in the minors it's not inconceivable. If it happens we would probably need quick development from Eloy Jimenez as well. If he tears through AA next spring and early summer he might get his feet wet next year and be ready to contribute in 2019. One thing that could speed up the process might be a possible trade for Cardinals catcher Carson Kelly who is blocked by Molina. The Cards might want a competent back up catcher[smith?] a long term catcher {Collins ,Zav- ala} and a young starting pitcher in return but it might be worth it. A starting outfield of Eloy, Avi and Leury Garcia along with Anderson, Moncada Abreu, Davidson and Kelly might be enough to compete for a wild card and Get the fans excited sooner rather than later. The fact that Burger,Robert,Sheets Adolpho and Rutherford would be close behind for reinforcements makes it a chance worth taking. We also have a couple of high first round picks in 2018-19 alond with Jordan Stephens,Spencer Adams and Guerrero for added pitching depth in case of injuries. Tell us your plans for the future. Zisk I often forget that success and competing is only relative to the division. So if Kopech and Eloy blaze through the minors next year, the Sox will probably be better than KC, Detroilet & Minnesota. The Indians bullpen will probably fall apart in a year or two because that's what bullpens do, so I could see 2019 being super exciting but maybe the Sox come up a bit short. 2020 probably begins at least 5 years of dominance in the division. Can't wait! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxJon Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Definitely see 2018 being only slightly more competitive than 2017 with an improved Anderson and Moncada with Abreu, Avi, and Davidson returning along with a healthy more experienced Rodon, and maybe even a late season Jimenez/Kopech call-up, but obviously still far from being a serious contender. 2019 I see as more of a .500 season while all the prospects and call-ups adjust to the big leagues. 2020 I see as the start of perennial dominance with the last string of prospects (Burger, Sheets, Rutherford, Adolfo) reaching their ETAs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconOnAStick Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 2019 is a contention year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Aug 13, 2017 -> 11:47 AM) I often forget that success and competing is only relative to the division. So if Kopech and Eloy blaze through the minors next year, the Sox will probably be better than KC, Detroilet & Minnesota. The Indians bullpen will probably fall apart in a year or two because that's what bullpens do, so I could see 2019 being super exciting but maybe the Sox come up a bit short. 2020 probably begins at least 5 years of dominance in the division. Can't wait! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighurt574 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Don't forget about free agency. With our minimal payroll obligations, I assume we'll make some moves there at some point. I don't know if we'll make the playoffs, but I could see 2019 being competitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconOnAStick Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Don't forget about free agency. With our minimal payroll obligations, I assume we'll make some moves there at some point. I don't know if we'll make the playoffs, but I could see 2019 being competitive. The Sox can sign quite a few players for up to about four years from this offseason (three years from the next, so on and so on) and it won't really affect their ability to extend players coming up through the system. They are locked out of international free agency too, so no worries about that. I expect them to be very active in FA. I know that's an unpopular opinion, but they can sign good players as soon as this offseason and it does nothing to hurt their long term prospects. As long as they don't trade farmhands for aging vets, and I don't think they'll do that again, they can even make some of the old types of ALL IN moves as soon as this offseason with limited consequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zisk Posted August 13, 2017 Author Share Posted August 13, 2017 QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Aug 13, 2017 -> 01:15 PM) The Sox can sign quite a few players for up to about four years from this offseason (three years from the next, so on and so on) and it won't really affect their ability to extend players coming up through the system. They are locked out of international free agency too, so no worries about that. I expect them to be very active in FA. I know that's an unpopular opinion, but they can sign good players as soon as this offseason and it does nothing to hurt their long term prospects. As long as they don't trade farmhands for aging vets, and I don't think they'll do that again, they can even make some of the old types of ALL IN moves as soon as this offseason with limited consequences. There is one thing the Sox should do next year and that would be letting Leury show His defensive ability at all positions. He really could be very valuable for the Sox as a Zobrist type player, and if Basabe or Robert or Gonzales turns into an outstanding center fielder he might bring a nice return in a deadline trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Aug 13, 2017 -> 07:15 PM) I expect them to be very active in FA. I know that's an unpopular opinion, but they can sign good players as soon as this offseason and it does nothing to hurt their long term prospects. I have a sneaky feeling the Sox owners are going to fall in love with the fact our fan base is thrilled with the young players acquired and will soon fall in love with the idea they have an all-time low payroll. Why spend ANY money in free agency when it appears this team will be able to contend in 2019? There are enough young studs to fill a starting rotation and should be enough young players in 2019 ready to contribute that the team can contend in a weak division. So why spend ANY money in free agency if you are an owner? As long as the fans buy in, which they have, just go for it on the cheap. I could see them 'maybe' spending a little bit of dough on a reliever or two or maybe even one veteran starter in free agency, but that's it. Again ... why spend any money if you are an owner if you have the fans on your side not demanding anything of the sort and media not demanding anything of the sort? Try to win on the cheap and keep all that $$$$ for yourself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Aug 13, 2017 -> 01:15 PM) The Sox can sign quite a few players for up to about four years from this offseason (three years from the next, so on and so on) and it won't really affect their ability to extend players coming up through the system. They are locked out of international free agency too, so no worries about that. I expect them to be very active in FA. I know that's an unpopular opinion, but they can sign good players as soon as this offseason and it does nothing to hurt their long term prospects. As long as they don't trade farmhands for aging vets, and I don't think they'll do that again, they can even make some of the old types of ALL IN moves as soon as this offseason with limited consequences. They will active to sign end of the roster and space fillers much like they did last winter. Past that, no. If they had planned on adding guys this off-season they wouldn't have unloaded guys like Quintana and Kahnle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 (edited) The Sox may be competitive, a little earlier than some have believed. I think that would depend upon how quickly the pitchers are ready. If they can get Kopech, Lopez and one more, out of the other top prospects (Giolito, Dunning, Hansen, or Cease) to join Rodon and perform well, then they could be competitive in 2019. It they were to draft a mature college arm, like Brady Singer and if he could be ready after only one year in the Minors, that also could fill out the rotation. It will also depend upon whether guys like Avi, Davidson, Delmonico and Leury Garcia are retained and continue to develop, or whether the front office decides to trade them for more prospects. If the front office elects to keep them and Moncada develops into a super star by 2019, then they might be able to compete. A lineup built around Moncada, Abreu, Delmonico, Avi, Davidson and Anderson, as the core, could be good enough, if the pitching were good. In that scenario, it might make sense to acquire 1 or 2 free agents on shorter term contracts, giving time for Robert, Burger, Rutherford and Jimenez to continue to mature and develop, on the farm. I personally don't favor spending big on long term free agents, such as Machado. I'd prefer that the front office use the big money to extend the best of the young prospects, such as Moncada and Jimenez, once they establish themselves, much as they did with Anderson, premature as that move may have been. Edited August 13, 2017 by Lillian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WBWSF Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 13, 2017 -> 01:41 PM) I have a sneaky feeling the Sox owners are going to fall in love with the fact our fan base is thrilled with the young players acquired and will soon fall in love with the idea they have an all-time low payroll. Why spend ANY money in free agency when it appears this team will be able to contend in 2019? There are enough young studs to fill a starting rotation and should be enough young players in 2019 ready to contribute that the team can contend in a weak division. So why spend ANY money in free agency if you are an owner? As long as the fans buy in, which they have, just go for it on the cheap. I could see them 'maybe' spending a little bit of dough on a reliever or two or maybe even one veteran starter in free agency, but that's it. Again ... why spend any money if you are an owner if you have the fans on your side not demanding anything of the sort and media not demanding anything of the sort? Try to win on the cheap and keep all that $$$$ for yourself? I unfortunately agree with you. I don't see JR spending any money on this team. The lower the payroll=more money in his pockets. I wish I felt differently but that's how I feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Some of you goons just don't know what a rebuild is. They'll spend on FA when they're ready to win. That's definitely not next year and might not be 2019, though the latter year is where you expect to see some legitimate improvements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Aug 13, 2017 -> 06:31 PM) Some of you goons just don't know what a rebuild is. They'll spend on FA when they're ready to win. That's definitely not next year and might not be 2019, though the latter year is where you expect to see some legitimate improvements. Yeah, this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Does the money rollover like cellphone minutes. Say the team can handle $130M payroll but the 2018 payroll is $30M. Does that mean $100M is saved & invested so approx $105M is available the following year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkokieSox Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 It's best to wait and see your needs but player availability, matched with being a good fit sometimes doesn't setup ideally. I wouldn't be up set if they signed Moustakas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHurt3515 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 I would much rather wait to spend our money in next year's free agency then this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 QUOTE (WBWSF @ Aug 14, 2017 -> 12:26 AM) I unfortunately agree with you. I don't see JR spending any money on this team. The lower the payroll=more money in his pockets. I wish I felt differently but that's how I feel. Yes sir. One advantage to a rebuild in Jerry's later years (hopefully he lives to 100 tho) is the saving of cold hard cash. The fans LOVE this rebuild; we have young guys projected at almost all our positions including the starting rotation. All we are going to "need" to go with the guys we have acquired are some bullpen pieces and maybe one vet starter (a good version of Holland or Miguel; somebody like that who'll be cheap, 7 mill a year for 2 years or something). If we don't have enough bodies to field a GOOD bullpen, again, maybe sign somebody there. Maybe a closer for one huge contract. So we'll have all young cost controlled cheap guys (that the fans LOVE) plus a young pitching staff (that the fans worship) with maybe the need for one vet starter. at the most a guy to cost 20 mill for 2 years, 10 mill per annum max. GO SOX! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 The pitching is ridiculously thin. Exactly 2 major league pitchers on the major league team; if you generously figure 2 prospects for 1 major league player, and if you assume Lopez is major league, they would need 6 good starting prospects and 10-12 for the bullpen. And that would still leave them with no depth. So, to answer the question, it may be a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Aug 13, 2017 -> 06:31 PM) Some of you goons just don't know what a rebuild is. They'll spend on FA when they're ready to win. That's definitely not next year and might not be 2019, though the latter year is where you expect to see some legitimate improvements. THE TRUTH (other than maybe the "goon" thing) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 I expect wildcard contention by 2019. Better be in in 2020 and beyond. And JR just spent $50M on a prospect, so lay to the rest him not spending BS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WBWSF Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 1) Clippard was just moved to Houston. Another salary dump. The recent trades with KC, Yankees and Tampa Bay were nothing but salary dumps. The team traded Dan Jennings to Tampa bay for absolutely nothing. We now have Bummer as our only lefty in the bullpen. And he can't get anybody out. 2) I read yesterday that the White Sox are contemplating moving Avi Garcia and Abreu this off season. I have no doubt in my mind that both of them will be moved for prospects. More salary dumps. The team now has the worse pitching staff in MLB. Without Avi Garcia and Abreu we will have the worse offense in MLB And the lowest payroll in MLB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 QUOTE (WBWSF @ Aug 14, 2017 -> 07:04 AM) 1) Clippard was just moved to Houston. Another salary dump. The recent trades with KC, Yankees and Tampa Bay were nothing but salary dumps. The team traded Dan Jennings to Tampa bay for absolutely nothing. We now have Bummer as our only lefty in the bullpen. And he can't get anybody out. 2) I read yesterday that the White Sox are contemplating moving Avi Garcia and Abreu this off season. I have no doubt in my mind that both of them will be moved for prospects. More salary dumps. The team now has the worse pitching staff in MLB. Without Avi Garcia and Abreu we will have the worse offense in MLB And the lowest payroll in MLB. What is your point though? You are aware that we are completely rebuilding, and what that means right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 QUOTE (WBWSF @ Aug 14, 2017 -> 09:04 AM) 1) Clippard was just moved to Houston. Another salary dump. The recent trades with KC, Yankees and Tampa Bay were nothing but salary dumps. The team traded Dan Jennings to Tampa bay for absolutely nothing. We now have Bummer as our only lefty in the bullpen. And he can't get anybody out. 2) I read yesterday that the White Sox are contemplating moving Avi Garcia and Abreu this off season. I have no doubt in my mind that both of them will be moved for prospects. More salary dumps. The team now has the worse pitching staff in MLB. Without Avi Garcia and Abreu we will have the worse offense in MLB And the lowest payroll in MLB. Except none of those were salary dumps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 QUOTE (WBWSF @ Aug 14, 2017 -> 08:04 AM) 1) Clippard was just moved to Houston. Another salary dump. The recent trades with KC, Yankees and Tampa Bay were nothing but salary dumps. The team traded Dan Jennings to Tampa bay for absolutely nothing. We now have Bummer as our only lefty in the bullpen. And he can't get anybody out. 2) I read yesterday that the White Sox are contemplating moving Avi Garcia and Abreu this off season. I have no doubt in my mind that both of them will be moved for prospects. More salary dumps. The team now has the worse pitching staff in MLB. Without Avi Garcia and Abreu we will have the worse offense in MLB And the lowest payroll in MLB. Are you even following what's happening? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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