when can Sox contend?

[Rowand44]

To answer the original question in this thread, I still think the most realistic timeline is 2020. That said, I'm not going to be shocked if it happens in 2019 and I'm not going to be shocked if it takes until 2021. The fact that there's so much talent but also so many questions marks just makes it impossible to actually know.

[southsider2k5]

1) Clippard was just moved to Houston. Another salary dump. The recent trades with KC, Yankees and Tampa Bay were nothing but salary dumps. The team traded Dan Jennings to Tampa bay for absolutely nothing. We now have Bummer as our only lefty in the bullpen. And he can't get anybody out.

2) I read yesterday that the White Sox are contemplating moving Avi Garcia and Abreu this off season. I have no doubt in my mind that both of them will be moved for prospects. More salary dumps. The team now has the worse pitching staff in MLB. Without Avi Garcia and Abreu we will have the worse offense in MLB And the lowest payroll in MLB.

 

While the Sox have been moving tons of salary as a by product of these deals, they were NOT salary dumps.

[Kyyle23]

Are you even following what's happening?

 

hasnt been since the beginning. Has this hilariously wrong ax to grind and is mad that the Sox, who are 25 games under .500, do not have an extra lefty in the pen LMAO

[ChiSox59]

I've always been on the 2020 bandwagon, but it looks like the Sox could at least have a very interesting young core by 2019. If they are active in free agency leading up to the 2019 season, I think that team would have a chance to be the first of many division contending teams.

[bmags]

To answer the original question in this thread, I still think the most realistic timeline is 2020. That said, I'm not going to be shocked if it happens in 2019 and I'm not going to be shocked if it takes until 2021. The fact that there's so much talent but also so many questions marks just makes it impossible to actually know.

 

Yeah I think 2019 is still my milestone for watching exciting baseball and identifying what we need to get over top.

 

2020 is when I want playoff run.

[ron883]

If the sox arent in playoff contention by 2019, the pitchforks will be out for Rick. This division blows.

[hogan873]

I think 2019 is a very interesting season. I don't think they'll compete for the division, but they'll be in contention for a wild card spot all season. However, that all depends on the rest of the division. If the rest of the division struggles, you never know. I think 2020 starts a string of years where they dominate.

[greg775]

The pitching is ridiculously thin. Exactly 2 major league pitchers on the major league team; if you generously figure 2 prospects for 1 major league player, and if you assume Lopez is major league, they would need 6 good starting prospects and 10-12 for the bullpen. And that would still leave them with no depth.

So, to answer the question, it may be a while.

What do you mean bout the pitching being a disaster zone? The starting rotation is Rodon, Giolito, Lopez, Kopech (sp?) and Cease. these are all can't miss major leaguers. Plus Hansen, Fulmer and Dunning. Burdi, Adams and Clarkin. You already have a full staff of starters and relievers here. Like I said add one vet starter maybe and 2 bullpen guys for a few bucks and you are talking low low payroll for a No. 1 in the league pitching staff. The two prospects for 1 major league player doesn't make sense regarding these guys. And I'm probably forgetting somebody.

 

 

2) I read yesterday that the White Sox are contemplating moving Avi Garcia and Abreu this off season. I have no doubt in my mind that both of them will be moved for prospects. More salary dumps. The team now has the worse pitching staff in MLB. Without Avi Garcia and Abreu we will have the worse offense in MLB And the lowest payroll in MLB.

that will be very sad if they drop Abreu and Avi. At some point you need a couple veteran bodies I would think. But maybe not. The Sox also are set position player wise. I will grant you a couple of these guys could fizz.

But you've got Burger, TA, Moncada and Abreu (hopefully) around the horn. You've got Collins at catcher and you have an unprecedented in Sox history superstar outfield of Eloy, Robert and Rutherford in the outfield with Avi DH or Basabe or Polo or Cordell or whomever in the outfield. You've also got Gillaspie in the mix and others I'm forgetting. Plus whoever they draft in 2018 at the No. 1 spot. That might even be another pitcher at this point.

I would say the pitching is pretty much set with can't miss/big league types. I'll acknowledge a lot of the hitters could flame out but on paper, this payroll projects to be LOW LOW LOW for a long long time making the owners mighty happy. They have it made. They can have the lowest of payrolls and the fans will love it. Not often that happens. Hahn is invaluable to these owners cause he's putting so much money in their pockets.

[hogan873]

What do you mean bout the pitching being a disaster zone? The starting rotation is Rodon, Giolito, Lopez, Kopech (sp?) and Cease. these are all can't miss major leaguers. Plus Hansen, Fulmer and Dunning. Burdi, Adams and Clarkin. You already have a full staff of starters and relievers here. Like I said add one vet starter maybe and 2 bullpen guys for a few bucks and you are talking low low payroll for a No. 1 in the league pitching staff. The two prospects for 1 major league player doesn't make sense regarding these guys. And I'm probably forgetting somebody.

Way too early to say that. If they all pitch to expectations, the rotation will be one of the best. If some exceed expectations, could be the best in baseball. But we've got a long way to go before we know how they will all perform.

[southsider2k5]

Can is 2020, most likely is 2021.

[greg775]

Way too early to say that. If they all pitch to expectations, the rotation will be one of the best. If some exceed expectations, could be the best in baseball. But we've got a long way to go before we know how they will all perform.

The names on the list I mentioned are can't miss maybe with the exception of Cease and Burdi. I guess Fulmer could bust. The rest have too much going for them.

[greg775]

Can is 2020, most likely is 2021.

Not saying you, but I laugh at how low the bar is set for the rebuild in terms of how quickly the Sox can start winning big. Fans are amazing nowadays. If you rebuild with all mysterious young guys, the patience is infinite of fans. Sox front office don't have to worry about people 'expecting' wins any time soon, they are having too much fun with the rebuild.

I'll say one thing if guys like Moncada are on a terrible W/L team in 2020 they may really get used to losing. That'd be his fourth season of team suck.

Edited August 14, 2017 by greg775

[steveno89]

Can is 2020, most likely is 2021.

 

Realistically I'm thinking 2020 is the earliest I can see the White Sox contending for the division. 2019 would be great, but that would mean our young players come to the majors and immediately perform at a high level.

 

We should have a wave of talent ready for the majors by 2020/2021 and should be locked and loaded to compete.

[StrangeSox]

Can is 2020, most likely is 2021.

 

Seems right to me. 2019 should be a fun year to watch this team really starting to mature, but probably not enough by that point.

[bmags]

I think we all may have differing opinions of compete. 2019 I expect us to be competitive. At least in the 75-81 wins area.

[harfman77]

If the sox arent in playoff contention by 2019, the pitchforks will be out for Rick. This division blows.

 

There are other teams that are going to be getting better in that time period too, the Twins are still at the beginning of bringing up what they have built in their system. Berrios is there now, Gonzalves is on the way, Gordon and Romero are not too far behind him, and Royce Lewis may be up by the start of the 2020 season.

 

The Tigers are stuck in no mans land with too many overpriced assets to make a rebuild really work for them.

 

The Indians are probably going to have tear things down next year given the state of their minor league system and proximity of the the majority of their pitching to free agency, but they could really retool quickly depending on the returns they get to build around Lindor, Zimmer, Mejia, and Ramirez.

[southsider2k5]

Seems right to me. 2019 should be a fun year to watch this team really starting to mature, but probably not enough by that point.

 

I've thought so for a while, but even more so when you look at how deliberate the team has been with moving guys up through the minors this year. A year ago, Moncada, Giolito, and Lopez would have all been on the opening day roster. This year they spent the vast majority of the season at AAA.

[Kyyle23]

Not saying you, but I laugh at how low the bar is set for the rebuild in terms of how quickly the Sox can start winning big. Fans are amazing nowadays. If you rebuild with all mysterious young guys, the patience is infinite of fans. Sox front office don't have to worry about people 'expecting' wins any time soon, they are having too much fun with the rebuild.

I'll say one thing if guys like Moncada are on a terrible W/L team in 2020 they may really get used to losing. That'd be his fourth season of team suck.

 

Yea well I laugh at the people who are like "spend, baby, spend!" After 8 years of failure with one of the best pitchers in the league. They seem disconnected from reality

[Lip Man 1]

1) Clippard was just moved to Houston. Another salary dump. The recent trades with KC, Yankees and Tampa Bay were nothing but salary dumps. The team traded Dan Jennings to Tampa bay for absolutely nothing. We now have Bummer as our only lefty in the bullpen. And he can't get anybody out.

2) I read yesterday that the White Sox are contemplating moving Avi Garcia and Abreu this off season. I have no doubt in my mind that both of them will be moved for prospects. More salary dumps. The team now has the worse pitching staff in MLB. Without Avi Garcia and Abreu we will have the worse offense in MLB And the lowest payroll in MLB.

 

It's called a REBUILD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

WHY is that so hard to understand?

 

They are SUPPOSED to be bad, historically bad, horrifically bad if at all possible.

 

I'm sorry if that offends your sensibilities, I get where you are coming from but this is the new reality, like it or not. Deal with it.

 

And to answer the original question, real contention starts in 2020 in my opinion.

[mac9001]

I would say 2020 is a much more realistic prediction for playoff contention. We're likely to be bad next year (bottom 5) and we'll (hopefully) have a decent amount of young talent hitting the bigs in 2019. Thus the type of deal/FA acquisitions to push the team into contention may not happen until after the 2019 season.

[jenksycat]

Despite the idiotic calls to "be VERY active in the free agent market" they will be bad next year. Gio/Kopech/Eloy possibly getting a taste of the bigs in 2018. 2019 those guys are coming up with the next wave getting a taste at the end of 2019. 2020 you hopefully have a Rodon/Lopez/Kopech/Gio rotation, a Eloy/Roberts outfield & more kids coming up throughout the season competing for a playoff spot.

 

Signing long term free agents this offseason would be the stupidest move they could possibly do. The point is to have payroll flexibility once the young core is in place so you see what holes are still left. Not to sign 30 year old free agents so we win 74 games instead of 69 next year. Some of your concepts of what a 'rebuild' is are truly baffling.

[iWiN4PreP]

2018: Lost year, hopefully the management can make some more (but discrete) moves. Wouldn't mind picking up a handful of free agents, especially relivers/starters on minor deals to flip them at this deadline or next years. Just keep plugging away.

2019: Depending on what we do in Free Agency, this will be the first really exciting year. Our team should be shaping up, the 'spects should be coming up, and we will have a lot of fun (or misery if the 'spects don't work out)

2020: A good deadline to set for time to compete. Here, we should be competing for a playoff/wild card spot. A miss on one of these is not a complete failure, but we need to no longer be cellar dwellers. We need to be fighting this year. Another hugely exciting year.

2021: By this year we should be able to determine whether our build design was a failure or a success. Assuming we're in the playoffs with a great team should be the goal. If we aren't making the playoffs here, we are looking at a failure of a job.

[hogan873]

The names on the list I mentioned are can't miss maybe with the exception of Cease and Burdi. I guess Fulmer could bust. The rest have too much going for them.

There is no such thing as a can't miss prospect. That's why they are called prospects. The ones we're talking about have huge potential and very high ceilings, and the chances are good that they will succeed to some extent. But there are no guarantees.

 

By the way, since when are you so excited about the rebuild? A couple weeks ago you were rating it a 2 out of 10.

[southsider2k5]

Despite the idiotic calls to "be VERY active in the free agent market" they will be bad next year. Gio/Kopech/Eloy possibly getting a taste of the bigs in 2018. 2019 those guys are coming up with the next wave getting a taste at the end of 2019. 2020 you hopefully have a Rodon/Lopez/Kopech/Gio rotation, a Eloy/Roberts outfield & more kids coming up throughout the season competing for a playoff spot.

 

Signing long term free agents this offseason would be the stupidest move they could possibly do. The point is to have payroll flexibility once the young core is in place so you see what holes are still left. Not to sign 30 year old free agents so we win 74 games instead of 69 next year. Some of your concepts of what a 'rebuild' is are truly baffling.

 

Luckily the bark is louder than the actual number of people here. I think almost all realize that this is very very early in the process, and the Sox will be shopping in the discount bin again in this free agent market, and not hitting up Tiffany's.

[ChiSox59]

2018: Lost year, hopefully the management can make some more (but discrete) moves. Wouldn't mind picking up a handful of free agents, especially relivers/starters on minor deals to flip them at this deadline or next years. Just keep plugging away.

 

I've said it before and I will say it again - the Sox should just go to battle with what they have next season. Maybe sign a couple relievers we could fix and flip, and perhaps maybe 1 arm in the rotation to make Giolito, Fulmer, Stephens and Guerrero earn their opportunities in AAA. But on the offensive side, we just need to give the guys we have at bats.

 

The outfield is covered between Avi, Leury, Delmonico, Engel, Alen Hanson, Willy Garcia, Liriano, Cordell, May and Tilson. Plenty of guys that need MLB at bats.

 

Corners are covered with Abreu, Davidson, Delmonico, Saladino, Gillaspie, Hayes and DJ Peterson.

 

MI is covered with Anderson, Moncada, Yolmer, Saladino, Hanson and even guys like Jake Peter and Eddy Alvarez.

 

I really see no reason to sign any bats to ML deals. Bring some guys in on minor league deals and start them in Charlotte - sure. But rest of this season and next should be used to get the fringe guys as any plate appearances as possible. Hopefully by 2019 we've found a 3 or 4 of those fringe guys that are worth keeping around.