when can Sox contend?

[chitownsportsfan]

Luckily the bark is louder than the actual number of people here. I think almost all realize that this is very very early in the process, and the Sox will be shopping in the discount bin again in this free agent market, and not hitting up Tiffany's.

 

If anything the tear down should continue through the offseason and that means Avi should be available as well as Leury and Yolmer, if anybody is willing to give the Sox a decent deal. There's not much left to sell, but whatever is left should be made available. The 2019 offseason will be the time to start buying again.

[southsider2k5]

If anything the tear down should continue through the offseason and that means Avi should be available as well as Leury and Yolmer, if anybody is willing to give the Sox a decent deal. There's not much left to sell, but whatever is left should be made available. The 2019 offseason will be the time to start buying again.

 

With the price of position players being absolute crap on the trade market this year, I wouldn't be opposed to the Sox sitting on both of them, and even looking to see if there are any of those types of bargains out there for when the market picks back up.

 

I also fully expect them to be searching for the next Swarzak and Kahnle in the bargain bins.

[jenksycat]

With the price of position players being absolute crap on the trade market this year, I wouldn't be opposed to the Sox sitting on both of them, and even looking to see if there are any of those types of bargains out there for when the market picks back up.

 

I also fully expect them to be searching for the next Swarzak and Kahnle in the bargain bins.

 

Yep, the only signings this off season should be 1 year "fix 'em" deals on pitchers that we can flip at the deadline.

[ChiSox1917]

2019 I see the team start to make a turn. Not make the playoffs, and possibly not even finish .500, but will show enough of a promise to get us excited for the next year. 2020 I think we'll be a mid 80's win team/borderline playoff team, and by 2021 - 2025 we'll be the top of the AL Central.

[turnin' two]

I've said it before and I will say it again - the Sox should just go to battle with what they have next season. Maybe sign a couple relievers we could fix and flip, and perhaps maybe 1 arm in the rotation to make Giolito, Fulmer, Stephens and Guerrero earn their opportunities in AAA. But on the offensive side, we just need to give the guys we have at bats.

 

The outfield is covered between Avi, Leury, Delmonico, Engel, Alen Hanson, Willy Garcia, Liriano, Cordell, May and Tilson. Plenty of guys that need MLB at bats.

 

Corners are covered with Abreu, Davidson, Delmonico, Saladino, Gillaspie, Hayes and DJ Peterson.

 

MI is covered with Anderson, Moncada, Yolmer, Saladino, Hanson and even guys like Jake Peter and Eddy Alvarez.

 

I really see no reason to sign any bats to ML deals. Bring some guys in on minor league deals and start them in Charlotte - sure. But rest of this season and next should be used to get the fringe guys as any plate appearances as possible. Hopefully by 2019 we've found a 3 or 4 of those fringe guys that are worth keeping around.

 

Seems right to me. I would like to see them sign maybe a pair of starters (and hopefully they have better luck than this year). For the rotation at the beginning of next year there is Rodon and Lopez ready. Shields is still there, but quite replaceable (obviously) they could have innings for guys like Clay Buchholz or Matt Moore.

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/08/2017...agent-list.html

 

Plenty of sign and flip candidates. More will likely come after the non-tender date.

[ChiSox59]

Seems right to me. I would like to see them sign maybe a pair of starters (and hopefully they have better luck than this year). For the rotation at the beginning of next year there is Rodon and Lopez ready. Shields is still there, but quite replaceable (obviously) they could have innings for guys like Clay Buchholz or Matt Moore.

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/08/2017...agent-list.html

 

Plenty of sign and flip candidates. More will likely come after the non-tender date.

 

Shields is going to be run out there in hopes of cobbling together 10-12 starts and getting moved. No reason not to, really. But yah, all depends on if Sox want Giolito, Fulmer, Stephens and Guerrero to earn it in AAA. Could conceivably put any of those 4 in the opening day rotation, and could also throw Danish in the fire as well. Danish is a reliever in my mind and had virtually no chance to start in the bigs, so I hope they just put him in the pen.

[greg775]

There is no such thing as a can't miss prospect. That's why they are called prospects. The ones we're talking about have huge potential and very high ceilings, and the chances are good that they will succeed to some extent. But there are no guarantees.

 

By the way, since when are you so excited about the rebuild? A couple weeks ago you were rating it a 2 out of 10.

I'm not excited about the rebuild; I'm totally against it. I still give it a 2 until it starts to prove worthy of the grade increasing. But I told u all before I have the right to cheer for the team if it works. That's what fandom is all about. I'm just pointing out what's going to happen now. With all the positions covered, the Sox will with the blessing of the fans make more money than ever, cause the payroll will be nothing. I'm against all the losing seasons involved in a rebuild of course but I have the right to continue being a fan if it works and they get good again. I'm still watching games during the down times.

[jenksycat]

I'm not excited about the rebuild; I'm totally against it. I still give it a 2 until it starts to prove worthy of the grade increasing. But I told u all before I have the right to cheer for the team if it works. That's what fandom is all about. I'm just pointing out what's going to happen now. With all the positions covered, the Sox will with the blessing of the fans make more money than ever, cause the payroll will be nothing. I'm against all the losing seasons involved in a rebuild of course but I have the right to continue being a fan if it works and they get good again. I'm still watching games during the down times.

 

You have every right to be whatever kind of fan you want. But that doesn't mean people have to respect your flip flopping illogical ideas that you constantly bring up.

[hogan873]

I'm not excited about the rebuild; I'm totally against it. I still give it a 2 until it starts to prove worthy of the grade increasing. But I told u all before I have the right to cheer for the team if it works. That's what fandom is all about. I'm just pointing out what's going to happen now. With all the positions covered, the Sox will with the blessing of the fans make more money than ever, cause the payroll will be nothing. I'm against all the losing seasons involved in a rebuild of course but I have the right to continue being a fan if it works and they get good again. I'm still watching games during the down times.

Well, your previous posts in this thread tell a different story. Saying that all of the pitching prospects are sure things and talking about how good it's going to be in a couple years is pretty much the opposite of being against the rebuild.

 

But anyway...

[greg775]

You have every right to be whatever kind of fan you want. But that doesn't mean people have to respect your flip flopping illogical ideas that you constantly bring up.

Thanks. I was waiting for somebody to tell me I have no right to cheer if the rebuild works since I'm against it. But u did not say that. Thanks.

 

Well, your previous posts in this thread tell a different story. Saying that all of the pitching prospects are sure things and talking about how good it's going to be in a couple years is pretty much the opposite of being against the rebuild.

 

But anyway...

I'm pointing out what I believe to be true. The starters I mentioned all will work out. They all have the stuff and have Coop to work with. As far as the position players I think Eloy, Robert and Rutherford will all be major league stars. Not sure on Burger. TA and Moncada and Abreu will be stars. Collins will be a star. Avi and some of the other outfielders will cover the outfield/DH slots as well. A Gillaspie might be good as well as next season's overall No. 1 pick might be another star.

If this all happens obviously my grade for the rebuild will go up. As of now, only Moncada is contributing and tho I like him, he's hitting .200. So we shall see. My grade could go from 2 to 9 or 10 if we make the WS and win the WS. It could be an 8 if we at least dominate the division. I'm not flip flopping . Right now it's a 2.

[chitownsportsfan]

Thanks. I was waiting for somebody to tell me I have no right to cheer if the rebuild works since I'm against it. But u did not say that. Thanks.

 

 

I'm pointing out what I believe to be true. The starters I mentioned all will work out. They all have the stuff and have Coop to work with. As far as the position players I think Eloy, Robert and Rutherford will all be major league stars. Not sure on Burger. TA and Moncada and Abreu will be stars. Collins will be a star. Avi and some of the other outfielders will cover the outfield/DH slots as well. A Gillaspie might be good as well as next season's overall No. 1 pick might be another star.

If this all happens obviously my grade for the rebuild will go up. As of now, only Moncada is contributing and tho I like him, he's hitting .200. So we shall see. My grade could go from 2 to 9 or 10 if we make the WS and win the WS. It could be an 8 if we at least dominate the division. I'm not flip flopping . Right now it's a 2.

 

So the lineup will feature 5-8 all-stars, the rotation will be lights out, but overall the rebuild is a 2 and there's no guarantee the Sox will contend even with 1/2 of the 25 man roster in the ASG.

 

I'll order two of whatever you've had today.

Edited August 14, 2017 by chitownsportsfan

[greg775]

So the lineup will feature 5-8 all-stars, the rotation will be lights out, but overall the rebuild is a 2 and there's no guarantee the Sox will contend even with 1/2 of the 25 man roster in the ASG.

 

I'll order two of whatever you've had today.

Do you agree that the guys I mentioned are can't miss (Eloy, Robert and Rutherford are can't miss; Collins; TA and Moncada; too much raw talent; Rodon, Giolito, Lopez, Kopech, Cease, Hansen and Dunning are can't miss with Fulmer. Burdi, Adams, Clarkin right there as well)?

The rebuild however is a 2 with the grade far from finalized. The grade switches as results are registered. Right now all I see is pathetic baseball with more to come. It all gets considered in the final rebuild equation.

Edited August 15, 2017 by greg775

[greg775]

Once again, you refuse to listen to anyone, which is why you are always at odds with nearly everyone on this board.

 

There is no such thing as a can't miss prospect.

 

Out of Moncada, Eloy, Robert, Rutherford, Collins, Giolito, Lopez, Kopech and Dunning.....The Sox will be INCREDIBLY fortunate for 5 of them to reach their potential. That is how baseball has worked...forever. If you can't grasp that concept, that's on YOU.

I can grasp concepts but those guys have too much raw talent and most of them have a talent that is extraordinary, such as an amazing fastball or incredible physique and/or speed. There are prospects and there are prospects. That's why I say a Burger could flop; possibly a Rutherford (but you've got so many other outfielders it won't matter if Rutherford flops somehow). Name a guy that can flop in the guys I mentioned? Maybe TA.

 

If you are talking injury, that's a different topic.

Edited August 15, 2017 by greg775

[GreenSox]

What do you mean bout the pitching being a disaster zone? The starting rotation is Rodon, Giolito, Lopez, Kopech (sp?) and Cease. these are all can't miss major leaguers. Plus Hansen, Fulmer and Dunning. Burdi, Adams and Clarkin. You already have a full staff of starters and relievers here. Like I said add one vet starter maybe and 2 bullpen guys for a few bucks and you are talking low low payroll for a No. 1 in the league pitching staff. The two prospects for 1 major league player doesn't make sense regarding these guys. And I'm probably forgetting somebody.

Yea, they're all cinches.

That's the kind of dreamland in which the Sox lived in 2015-2016....at least this time it is with young players, with their better years ahead of them.

 

With all the Sox had to trade, this should not be a 5 year rebuild.

Edited August 15, 2017 by GreenSox

[caulfield12]

Yea, they're all cinches.

That's the kind of dreamland in which the Sox lived in 2015-2016....at least this time it is with young players, with their better years ahead of them.

 

With all the Sox had to trade, this should not be a 5 year rebuild.

 

That's why we made the playoffs four consecutive years (2003-04-05-06)...because of that amazing 2000 prospect class that was ranked #1.

[Sleepy Harold]

It's a bit, his usual tired and old bit. Saying the prospects are "can't miss" and going to all be stars when we know in reality (he does too, he's just being extremely sarcastic) that that's just not the case. This thread has been gregged, like several other casualties in the past, he came in here and gregged the place up, adding nothing of substance to what was supposed to be a real discussion. Any chance at real discussion gets sidetracked by blatant buffoonery on a pretty regular basis, and in all honesty, it brings the quality of the board down with the constant foolishness. Posters are actually taking time to try and explain real points to someone with no interest of listening, while he's just beating the drum of a broken system. I guess to him, attempting to go for it and failing (essentially the last 10 years) and finishing middle of the pack every year is apparently better than building from the ground up by design (while getting potentially high impact talent at the same time). He's just trolling, despite the urge, try not to feed it. I know it will keep happening, because that's where he gets his jollies. He was "supposed to" stop acting like this, per his own post, but yet here we are running the same drill over and over again. The Sox aren't doing what he wants them to do so he's pouting and ruining it (or trying to ruin it) for everyone else.

[greg775]

It's a bit, his usual tired and old bit. Saying the prospects are "can't miss" and going to all be stars when we know in reality (he does too, he's just being extremely sarcastic) that that's just not the case. This thread has been gregged, like several other casualties in the past, he came in here and gregged the place up, adding nothing of substance to what was supposed to be a real discussion. Any chance at real discussion gets sidetracked by blatant buffoonery on a pretty regular basis, and in all honesty, it brings the quality of the board down with the constant foolishness. Posters are actually taking time to try and explain real points to someone with no interest of listening, while he's just beating the drum of a broken system. I guess to him, attempting to go for it and failing (essentially the last 10 years) and finishing middle of the pack every year is apparently better than building from the ground up by design (while getting potentially high impact talent at the same time). He's just trolling, despite the urge, try not to feed it. I know it will keep happening, because that's where he gets his jollies. He was "supposed to" stop acting like this, per his own post, but yet here we are running the same drill over and over again. The Sox aren't doing what he wants them to do so he's pouting and ruining it (or trying to ruin it) for everyone else.

Sorry to offend. I don't see why assessing a low grade right now (2) is considered so off base when right now we are losing. When the prospects start to deliver, uh, the grade rises. Why would anybody give it an 8, 9 or 10 when even as you say we have no assurances the guys will all be great.

Finally, I truly 100 percent believe the guys I mentioned are "can't miss." With the exception of Rutherford and Burger they all either are physical monsters or flamethrowing pitchers. The thread is called "when can Sox contend?" I don't know why I'm not allowed to enter such thread.

I can assure you my opinions are 100 percent real. I think those guys are can't miss, yes. Then why the low grade??? Because for gawd sakes our record right now blows, it will blow next year, maybe another year. That is MISERY. Once we get good, uh, the grade goes to 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, etc.

Seriously, why am I the bad guy here? I can't contribute to a thread?

If u feel a thread is gregged or going to be gregged let me know and I seriously will not post there.

 

I promise ... just say STOP and I'll cease.

Edited August 15, 2017 by greg775

[greg775]

Out of Moncada, Eloy, Robert, Rutherford, Collins, Giolito, Lopez, Kopech and Dunning.....The Sox will be INCREDIBLY fortunate for 5 of them to reach their potential. That is how baseball has worked...forever. If you can't grasp that concept, that's on YOU.

That would be 5 of 9. Of the guys listed I think the only ones who "may not" reach their potential are Rutherford, Dunning and Lopez. There's a pretty solid skill set on Moncada, Eloy, Robert, Collins, Gio, Kopech. In my world that's six can't miss and hopeful on Rutherford, Lopez and Dunning.

[MEANS]

Sorry to offend. I don't see why assessing a low grade right now (2) is considered so off base when right now we are losing. When the prospects start to deliver, uh, the grade rises. Why would anybody give it an 8, 9 or 10 when even as you say we have no assurances the guys will all be great.

Finally, I truly 100 percent believe the guys I mentioned are "can't miss." With the exception of Rutherford and Burger they all either are physical monsters or flamethrowing pitchers. The thread is called "when can Sox contend?" I don't know why I'm not allowed to enter such thread.

I can assure you my opinions are 100 percent real. I think those guys are can't miss, yes. Then why the low grade??? Because for gawd sakes our record right now blows, it will blow next year, maybe another year. That is MISERY. Once we get good, uh, the grade goes to 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, etc.

Seriously, why am I the bad guy here? I can't contribute to a thread?

If u feel a thread is gregged or going to be gregged let me know and I seriously will not post there.

 

I promise ... just say STOP and I'll cease.

 

 

STOP

[Dick Allen]

I would think 2020, but if some things go right, and it's anything like this year in 2019, you only have to be a little over .500 to have a legit shot at the playoffs.

[KnightsOnMintSt]

I think the first chance at contention should be 2019. I don't think that we'll be contending for the World Series, but for sure a playoff spot. 2020 is when I expect most guys from the rebuild, as of now, to be up. With the one exception being Luis Robert. I think he is a 2021 guy.

 

2021 is the year that if everything goes right, I think at least thinking about the World Series will not be too far-fetched.

[Chicago White Sox]

The 2019 season should be interesting. We should have a rotation of Kopech, Rodon, Lopez, Giolito, & one of Adams or Guerrero. Burdi should be back & healthy by then and hopefully guys like Fulmer & Stephens will have filled roles in the bullpen. I also wouldn't be surprised to see add a veteran reliever or two by then. Point is, the pitching staff has a chance to be pretty damn good is all goes well (no guarantee there obviously).

 

The positional side is tough. The single most important factor would be Moncada developing into a star by then. I see a few other things needing to happen as well. Anderson rebounding into a 2 to 3 WAR player. Abreu maintaining his current level of production. Jimenez being ready fairly early in the year and being a solid contributor from the get-go. And signing one significant impact player in free agency. If they can do that, I think they'd high end players to offset any weak spots and be s legit contender and not just a .500 caliber team.

[KnightsOnMintSt]

The 2019 season should be interesting. We should have a rotation of Kopech, Rodon, Lopez, Giolito, & one of Adams or Guerrero. Burdi should be back & healthy by then and hopefully guys like Fulmer & Stephens will have filled roles in the bullpen. I also wouldn't be surprised to see add a veteran reliever or two by then. Point is, the pitching staff has a chance to be pretty damn good is all goes well (no guarantee there obviously).

 

The positional side is tough. The single most important factor would be Moncada developing into a star by then. I see a few other things needing to happen as well. Anderson rebounding into a 2 to 3 WAR player. Abreu maintaining his current level of production. Jimenez being ready fairly early in the year and being a solid contributor from the get-go. And signing one significant impact player in free agency. If they can do that, I think they'd high end players to offset any weak spots and be s legit contender and not just a .500 caliber team.

 

I think the rotation in 2019 looks something like:

 

1. Rodon

2. Lopez

3. Kopech

4. Giolito

5. Stephens

 

With Fulmer, Guerrero, Adams, and Danish out of the pen.

 

Then in late 2019, but more likely 2020, we see Hansen added to the rotation for Stephens, sending him and Dunning to the bullpen.

 

[Balta1701]

I think the rotation in 2019 looks something like:

 

1. Rodon

2. Lopez

3. Kopech

4. Giolito

5. Stephens

 

With Fulmer, Guerrero, Adams, and Danish out of the pen.

 

Then in late 2019, but more likely 2020, we see Hansen added to the rotation for Stephens, sending him and Dunning to the bullpen.

I don't know who it'll be, but I'll put a bit of money on the White Sox adding a starting pitcher via the Rule 5 Draft this year. Holland, Pelfrey, and Gonzalez all potentially leaving, even with some of the guys in the minors coming up that's easily the most obvious place where we could "keep a person on the roster the whole year".

[southsider2k5]

I don't know who it'll be, but I'll put a bit of money on the White Sox adding a starting pitcher via the Rule 5 Draft this year. Holland, Pelfrey, and Gonzalez all potentially leaving, even with some of the guys in the minors coming up that's easily the most obvious place where we could "keep a person on the roster the whole year".

 

They will also likely add scrap heap guys like Holland/Pelfrey, etc.