A Star* is Born

[he gone.]

If you do get a chance I'd like you to assess Salvy Perez and Lorenzo Cain and Moustakas and Hosmer for me. Should they be starters? Are they worth a damn? My guess is they will come up lacking. I'd love to see your assessment of the NL all star roster. I'd think most of those guys suck and shouldn't be regulars. I do realize most of the Sox do suck, but I think Delmonico, Avi, the catchers, Moncada, Abreu, yes Davidson are actually not so bad. Perez by the way has 21 homers; Davidson has 22.

"

 

I don't know enough about the Royals on a day in and day out basis.

But rough overview?

I'd say if I'm the Sox I am passing on Cain as he's getting older at age like 31 or 32. He probably can fill a teams needs in the way a Melky does. He has no fit on the Sox or the Royals moving forward.

Salvy to Davidson is about as apples to oranges as one can be. Savly is an All-Star catcher. That position doesn't historically produce well so when you get one they are super valuable. how you call a game, your relationships with pitchers, how you catch, frame, etc. Would welcome him on any team.

 

Moose and Hosmer? Hosmer is having a great year. Again this isn't really about other teams. I'd rather be the Royals of 5 years ago and have these guys produce like they are at cheap. When they are becoming FA I think they cost too much compared to what their value is in return. He's a fine player. Not someone I'd want on the Sox at the pricetag hes gonna get.

 

Those are all starters and good players. If the Sox were able to have production out of 4-5 guys like that on their rookie contracts I would be ecstatic. Moose, Hosmer, Salvy were all highly touted guys ... Nicky Delmonico, Yolmer and Saladino and Davidson were not....

 

The Sox will be more than fine if we have 4-5 of the guys in the minors produce as the royals had ...

 

we can probably pencil in Moncada as a starter. we have Abreu ... now add in 2-4 more and we're cooking. I just don't think the names like Garcia, Sanchez, Davidson, Delmonico are those guys.

[Dam8610]

I don't know enough about the Royals on a day in and day out basis.

But rough overview?

I'd say if I'm the Sox I am passing on Cain as he's getting older at age like 31 or 32. He probably can fill a teams needs in the way a Melky does. He has no fit on the Sox or the Royals moving forward.

Salvy to Davidson is about as apples to oranges as one can be. Savly is an All-Star catcher. That position doesn't historically produce well so when you get one they are super valuable. how you call a game, your relationships with pitchers, how you catch, frame, etc. Would welcome him on any team.

 

Moose and Hosmer? Hosmer is having a great year. Again this isn't really about other teams. I'd rather be the Royals of 5 years ago and have these guys produce like they are at cheap. When they are becoming FA I think they cost too much compared to what their value is in return. He's a fine player. Not someone I'd want on the Sox at the pricetag hes gonna get.

 

Those are all starters and good players. If the Sox were able to have production out of 4-5 guys like that on their rookie contracts I would be ecstatic. Moose, Hosmer, Salvy were all highly touted guys ... Nicky Delmonico, Yolmer and Saladino and Davidson were not....

 

The Sox will be more than fine if we have 4-5 of the guys in the minors produce as the royals had ...

 

we can probably pencil in Moncada as a starter. we have Abreu ... now add in 2-4 more and we're cooking. I just don't think the names like Garcia, Sanchez, Davidson, Delmonico are those guys.

 

You need the average level players to fill in though. "Stars and scrubs" is what got the White Sox into this mess in the first place.

[greg775]

For God's sake, just stop.

I get sick of how bad our players are considered on this board. I thought it a fair question to assess some other guys and see if they suck, too. Can't believe that post caused this freak out.

 

I don't know enough about the Royals on a day in and day out basis.

But rough overview?

I'd say if I'm the Sox I am passing on Cain as he's getting older at age like 31 or 32. He probably can fill a teams needs in the way a Melky does. He has no fit on the Sox or the Royals moving forward.

Salvy to Davidson is about as apples to oranges as one can be. Savly is an All-Star catcher. That position doesn't historically produce well so when you get one they are super valuable. how you call a game, your relationships with pitchers, how you catch, frame, etc. Would welcome him on any team.

 

Moose and Hosmer? Hosmer is having a great year. Again this isn't really about other teams. I'd rather be the Royals of 5 years ago and have these guys produce like they are at cheap. When they are becoming FA I think they cost too much compared to what their value is in return. He's a fine player. Not someone I'd want on the Sox at the pricetag hes gonna get.

 

Those are all starters and good players. If the Sox were able to have production out of 4-5 guys like that on their rookie contracts I would be ecstatic. Moose, Hosmer, Salvy were all highly touted guys ... Nicky Delmonico, Yolmer and Saladino and Davidson were not....

 

The Sox will be more than fine if we have 4-5 of the guys in the minors produce as the royals had ...

 

we can probably pencil in Moncada as a starter. we have Abreu ... now add in 2-4 more and we're cooking. I just don't think the names like Garcia, Sanchez, Davidson, Delmonico are those guys.

Thanks. I'm surprised you think those Royals are good players, but glad to read this.

[hogan873]

I get sick of how bad our players are considered on this board. I thought it a fair question to assess some other guys and see if they suck, too. Can't believe that post caused this freak out.

 

 

Thanks. I'm surprised you think those Royals are good players, but glad to read this.

The Sox team right now is bad. And there are some bad players on this bad team. Some are bad enough that their badness isn't even hidden by having one decent stat. Some are bad when you look a little deeper using advanced stats. There are some good players, but not many.

 

Look, I'm not as sold on advanced stats as some, but I do recognize that BA, OBP, HRs, and RBIs do not tell the whole story. Not by a long shot. A guy like Davidson, who I like, who has a ton of power but strikes out a third of the time he comes to the plate isn't that good.

 

My reaction to your post was based on you assuming that because the poster was critical of our players that he'd be extra critical of the Royals players and state that the NL all star team is a bunch of shlubs. I mean, come on man. Your posts are coming off as troll-like because of the ridiculous statements. You can disagree with posters all you want, but forming a decent argument is paramount. We're always going to be more critical of our own players. Always. And we're always going to look deeper at the stats of our own players. Especially those who have the potential to be a part of the future.

[LittleHurt05]

I get sick of how bad our players are considered on this board. I thought it a fair question to assess some other guys and see if they suck, too. Can't believe that post caused this freak out.

 

You give the rebuild a 2 out of 10 because the current team is so bad, yet you are sick of how bad the players are considered? Aren't you contradicting yourself there? If people had higher opinions of the players, they would be winning more games.

[hi8is]

I'm pulling for this kid big time. No matter what he does in his career - I will always remember him. If I ask my three year old son now who his favorite baseball player is, he emphatically says, "Nicky!!"

 

Before he wouldn't have a response.

 

Atta boy kid-nick

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/colum...822-column.html

[flavum]

To quote Ed Farmer...he's on the team for next year!

 

I look forward to him getting a full season of at bats next year.

[Boopa1219]

Who would you rather have on the field, Davidson or Delmonico?

[witesoxfan]

I think those are pretty "realistic" projections. I stand by the post - may be a negative post, but stand by it.

 

Moncada isn't done - never said that. I said he's an above average player. Probably a few ASG, maybe 1 or 2 low end fringe MVP top 10 seasons. But he's not a build around star.

 

A guy who makes a few all star games and has one or two low end top 10 MVP seasons is literally a build around star.

 

 

The rest of the guys? Delmonicos, Garcias, Sanchez, Davidsons? If you can find one to stick on the bench and maybe one to fill a role for 2020 ONLY? That's a win.

 

I don't think that's too pessimistic at all.

 

I don't think it's pessimistic to think that some of these guys will not stick on the big league club, but there are going to be people who are on this team that will stick around until 2020 that will surprise you. If Leury Garcia figured out how to be an average to above average major league hitter, I have a lot of hope that others on this team can do the same.

[he gone.]

I guess maybe we just disagree on what a build around guy is. To me it's the Abreu's, Rizzos of the world. A guy you can count on to consistently come to the plate and perform. Moncada has a real chance to figure it out and be a world beater, just nothing over the past 3 years makes me think it'll happen to extent we are hoping.

 

 

If you have a core of:

 

Top guys:

Abreu 1B/DH

Jimenez LF

Arenado 3B

 

Abv. Average:

Moncada 2B

Collins (in regards to others at Catcher -- offense, power, calling game) C

 

Average:

Rutherford CF

Robert RF

Avi DH/LF/RF

 

Play a role on team:

Anderson UTIL (SS, 3B, 2B, CF)

L. Garcia UTIL (Same)

Delmonico DH, 1B, 3B, etc.

Basabe All OF defensively

Burger - DH/1B

Backup catcher

 

 

Add in our strength of the team - Kopech, Rodon, Hansen, Dunning, Giolito -- bullpen of Cease, Lopez, Fulmer, Burdi, etc. etc.

 

Plus a couple more draft picks? I think the point we are missing as a fan base sometimes is not all your prospects HAVE to hit the expectations we put on them. If just 1 or 2 turn into all stars we are the Astros or Cubs. If we somehow sign a guy - Arenado, Machado, or really solid FA we are in an even better spot (longshot)

 

Right now, these are the tiers I am putting our prospects in. Obviously Robert and Moncada both have the talent according the scouts to be world beaters.. I slot them where they are out my own opinion currently.

 

Also in this situation I'd love to sign or develop or trade for a defensive wizard at SS who can bat .240 and put the ball in play. I'd take up the middle defense over most anything on a future team.

[jenksycat]

I guess maybe we just disagree on what a build around guy is. To me it's the Abreu's, Rizzos of the world. A guy you can count on to consistently come to the plate and perform. Moncada has a real chance to figure it out and be a world beater, just nothing over the past 3 years makes me think it'll happen to extent we are hoping.

 

 

If you have a core of:

 

Top guys:

Abreu 1B/DH

Jimenez LF

Arenado 3B

 

Abv. Average:

Moncada 2B

Collins (in regards to others at Catcher -- offense, power, calling game) C

 

Average:

Rutherford CF

Robert RF

Avi DH/LF/RF

 

Play a role on team:

Anderson UTIL (SS, 3B, 2B, CF)

L. Garcia UTIL (Same)

Delmonico DH, 1B, 3B, etc.

Basabe All OF defensively

Burger - DH/1B

Backup catcher

 

 

Add in our strength of the team - Kopech, Rodon, Hansen, Dunning, Giolito -- bullpen of Cease, Lopez, Fulmer, Burdi, etc. etc.

 

Plus a couple more draft picks? I think the point we are missing as a fan base sometimes is not all your prospects HAVE to hit the expectations we put on them. If just 1 or 2 turn into all stars we are the Astros or Cubs. If we somehow sign a guy - Arenado, Machado, or really solid FA we are in an even better spot (longshot)

 

Right now, these are the tiers I am putting our prospects in. Obviously Robert and Moncada both have the talent according the scouts to be world beaters.. I slot them where they are out my own opinion currently.

 

Also in this situation I'd love to sign or develop or trade for a defensive wizard at SS who can bat .240 and put the ball in play. I'd take up the middle defense over most anything on a future team.

 

If that's how the rebuild turns out & they need to spend 200m on a free agent to complete a 3 person core, we're screwed.

 

[Knackattack]

Is Briananderson Greg?

[beautox]

Nicky Delmonico might be something from Travis Sawchik @ Fangraphs

[witesoxfan]

Nicky Delmonico might be something from Travis Sawchik @ Fangraphs

 

Basically says he might be a league average hitter or a little less, but for a minor league free agent, that's good value.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Basically says he might be a league average hitter or a little less, but for a minor league free agent, that's good value.

Is it you asking about the bunt hits affecting the exit velocity ?

[he gone.]

Is Briananderson Greg?

 

No, I am a realistic fan.

 

We all like to compare ourselves to the Cubs during this rebuild for some reason.. so let's look at their top prospect list ala 2015

 

1: Gleyber Torres -- traded

2: Billy McKinney -- not even in the majors??

3: Carl Edwards Jr. - transitioned to 7/8th inning bullpen arm

4: Duane Underwood - Who?

5: Albert Almora: 4 OF/sometimes starter

6: Ian Happ -- playing a role

7: Pierce Johnson --- ??

8: Donnie DeWees -- ??

9: Mark Zaguins -- ??

10: Wilson Contreras -- key player on team

11: Dylan Cease -- now on our team

12: Eddy Martinez -- Not sure

13 Vogelbach -- Seattle minors

14 Eloy --- our top prospect now

 

 

So you tell me --- is my list realistic? I think so. That list is two years fast forward -- or end of 2019 for us. They have Happ and Contreras as key members. Almora and Edwards as contributing members and Torres and Eloy as key trade guys that netted great players for them.

 

Now I know that list is a bit misleading since 2014 is when they had their cream of the crop...

 

Top ten that year was Kris Bryant, Addison, Almora, Soler, Edwards, Schwarber, McKinney, Pierce Johnson, Volgebach, Caratini

Next ten were Candelario, Eloy, Jen Tseng, Torres, Paul Blackburn, Corey Black, Carson Sands, Radenmacher...

 

So all I'm saying is not everybody will slot in how you think they will. Our best player in 2020 might be Rutherford. It might be the 25th ranked guy. It might be someone we draft in the 7th round next year.

 

Don't focus so much on my projections... just focus on the fact that not everybody will be amazing..

 

How would I rank the Cubs players that were prospects in 2014-15 (not Rizzo since he wasn't apart of their lists) ?

 

Top Tier:

Bryant

Wilson Contreras

 

Above Average:

Addison Russell

Ian Happ

Carl Edwards Jr.

Javy Baez (was tops on earlier lists)

 

Average:

Schwarber

Almora

 

Rest of the guys? Really nothing. Eloy and Torres turned into great trade chips -- and now one is our top guy.

 

So although I may come off as negative I think I am being realistic. There will be a few guys that are top 10 that won't even make the majors

 

[Bob Sacamano]

No, I am a realistic fan.

 

We all like to compare ourselves to the Cubs during this rebuild for some reason.. so let's look at their top prospect list ala 2015

 

1: Gleyber Torres -- traded

2: Billy McKinney -- not even in the majors??

3: Carl Edwards Jr. - transitioned to 7/8th inning bullpen arm

4: Duane Underwood - Who?

5: Albert Almora: 4 OF/sometimes starter

6: Ian Happ -- playing a role

7: Pierce Johnson --- ??

8: Donnie DeWees -- ??

9: Mark Zaguins -- ??

10: Wilson Contreras -- key player on team

11: Dylan Cease -- now on our team

12: Eddy Martinez -- Not sure

13 Vogelbach -- Seattle minors

14 Eloy --- our top prospect now

 

Honestly I think Almora could be better than average. That kid deserves an everyday opportunity.

Edited August 25, 2017 by soxfan2014

[bmags]

Billy McKinney just turned 23 two days ago and has been destroying AAA. I wouldn't really hold him not being in the majors yet against him.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Billy McKinney just turned 23 two days ago and has been destroying AAA. I wouldn't really hold him not being in the majors yet against him.

 

Who the hell cares what McKinney does? Addison Russell was the prize in that trade and he helped them win a 'chip. This not aimed at you, mags.

[bmags]

Who the hell cares what McKinney does? Addison Russell was the prize in that trade and he helped them win a 'chip. This not aimed at you, mags.

 

Yeah, I was just responding to this:

2: Billy McKinney -- not even in the majors??

 

People forget how young McKinney is since he has moved twice and hasn't played yet. He's a bit like Gio Gonzalez, probably not as good in majors.

[witesoxfan]

Is it you asking about the bunt hits affecting the exit velocity ?

 

Yes

[he gone.]

Yeah, I was just responding to this:

2: Billy McKinney -- not even in the majors??

 

People forget how young McKinney is since he has moved twice and hasn't played yet. He's a bit like Gio Gonzalez, probably not as good in majors.

 

This is where online forums get weird cause you can't really express how I'm typing and it's open for interpretation. True I didn't realize he was 23 - but also it was really me going through the Cubs list and going -- I know he was traded last year from them .. wasn't have a good year last year ... and he's not in the majors, right?

 

Not so much not in the majors??? Like I didn't mean he was a bust. I just was like he's not up yet is he?

 

The main takeaway from my posts in a nutshell is this.. we have 30 top ranked prospects right now. If you went through all 30 mlb teams you'd find that most prospects don't pan out to where they are projected to. Some exceed. Some disappoint. But rarely do you find a Kris Bryant or Trout who just keep on producing at each level and never let up.

In my opinion we have a few guys like that where I think they'll have success at every level (outside injury) -- Eloy, Kopech, Hansen, Dunning. I think that Yoan, Rutherford, Giolito, Lopez, Cease will underperform against OUR expectations. Now that's not to say they won't contribute. I just think they aren't going to be where fans put them in our own lofty expectations.

 

I'm TBD on Robert - he could be a stud - he could be average - he could be Jorge soler. And then there's the whole other mess of guys ... burger, fulmer, cease, Collins, adolfo, gillaspie, burdi, adams, basabe, stephens, sheets, guerrero, clarkin, skoug, call, bummer, etc. etc. etc. It wouldn't surprise me at all if some of those guys overachieve vs. our top ranked prospects.

 

In the end this team is going to hit on a number of prospects. We've proven to develop pitchers very well. I think fast forward 3 years -- and barring injury that will still be our strength. IMO I'd like to sign a big name FA (Machado, Arenado) at the hot corner. I think you do that and you really minimize the need for a few prospects to hit their ceilings.

 

Again I'm not trying to be negative here... just based on every single team there is going to be a few top 10 prospects that don't make the majors or have a cup of coffee and that's it...so out of ..

Moncada, Jimenez, Kopech, Robert, Rutherford, Giolito, Cease, Hansen, Collins, Dunning, Fulmer, Burger ..... ? Who is it? Trust me I'll eat crow all the way to the WS if half these guys pan out to be what theyre supposed to be.

[Jose Abreu]

Delmonico scratched from tonight's lineup with a sprained right wrist