Organizational changes

[harfman77]

I think its time for the Sox to move some guys around.

 

Fulmer needs to go to the bullpen fulltime. With Burdi out for probably most of next year Fulmer could be a solid option for the Sox in the bullpen. Letting him go out in shorter stints would allow for him to play his stuff up a bit more and if he is successful, you have a valuable piece. His results the last two years are not trending in a positive direction, and its probably time to make a change.

 

I think the Hawkins experiment is done. The results just aren't getting any better, its time to move him to the mound to see if the team can salvage any value from the pick. His high school scouting report said some teams like him as a pitcher and he threw 92-95. Make a move and let him try to be the next Sergio Santos, Sean Doolittle, or best case Kenley Jansen. Odds are he wont make it as a pitcher either, but its worth a try.

 

Jake Peter to LF. With his history of arm trouble, 2B is the best position for him, however he will be blocked from the position for the foreseeable future unless the Sox trade him. He played 2B, 3B, RF, and LF in AA but has played exclusively 2B in AAA. He needs more time at other positions if he is going to be a useful piece. The team has an opportunity in LF next season and Peter could be a fit.

 

Jace Fry to the bullpen. By all accounts Fry has a good arm, however the starter workload seems to be more than his arm can handle.

[southsider2k5]

Carson Fulmer is just about to finish his first full season as a starter in professional baseball after 2.5 years in pro ball. There is no good reason to rush him out of the starting role. Just leave him alone and let him get his reps.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

I think its time for the Sox to move some guys around.

 

Fulmer needs to go to the bullpen fulltime. With Burdi out for probably most of next year Fulmer could be a solid option for the Sox in the bullpen. Letting him go out in shorter stints would allow for him to play his stuff up a bit more and if he is successful, you have a valuable piece. His results the last two years are not trending in a positive direction, and its probably time to make a change.

 

I think the Hawkins experiment is done. The results just aren't getting any better, its time to move him to the mound to see if the team can salvage any value from the pick. His high school scouting report said some teams like him as a pitcher and he threw 92-95. Make a move and let him try to be the next Sergio Santos, Sean Doolittle, or best case Kenley Jansen. Odds are he wont make it as a pitcher either, but its worth a try.

 

Jake Peter to LF. With his history of arm trouble, 2B is the best position for him, however he will be blocked from the position for the foreseeable future unless the Sox trade him. He played 2B, 3B, RF, and LF in AA but has played exclusively 2B in AAA. He needs more time at other positions if he is going to be a useful piece. The team has an opportunity in LF next season and Peter could be a fit.

 

Jace Fry to the bullpen. By all accounts Fry has a good arm, however the starter workload seems to be more than his arm can handle.

 

 

I agree on Fulmer. Though I'm not even certain he can be a bullpen piece, though you'd hope he'd have more success tehre. But why not try I guess? I'd prefer Peter to stay at 2B since we literally have no middle infield depth and we seem to have a lot of guys we were just moved to corner OF. The other two are just about as non-prospect as you can get so they can make them ball boys for all I care lol

[Jose Abreu]

Isn't Jace Fry already in the bullpen?

 

Agreed on everything else.

[GreenSox]

Fulmer is likely a bullpen guy, in the majors, but don't move him there until you have to. No point in minor league bullpen work. Let him start.

Edited August 23, 2017 by GreenSox

[yesterday333]

I still believe in fulmer but in relief... he started out the season pretty good but I wonder if he got tired after a couple months. He wouldn't be throwing as many innings in the relief roll

[ChiSoxJon]

Odd you say this about Hawkins as he's hitting .294 in is last 10, I think Hawkins will definitely be back next year for his last chance, Barnum too

[ChiSoxJon]

Fulmer is likely a bullpen guy, in the majors, but don't move him there until you have to. No point in minor league bullpen work. Let him start.

Agreed 100%

[bmags]

So with Fulmer, if you aren't as concerned about keeping him in games longer, do you let him go back to his older more violent mechanics? Or was that also to help him get more control (which seems to have failed)

[ChiSoxJon]

Peter has a good shot to be on the SouthSide by OD, likely as a utility as he is blocked by Moncada and Davidson/Delmonico/Sanchez

 

Fry may be a loogy by mid-season next year

[bmags]

Fry has to be feeling fortunate that despite 2 tommy johns he is still a left handed pitcher in an org with ample MLB playing time and bereft of LH pitching.

[Jose Abreu]

Again, unless I'm looking at the wrong Jace Fry, I think he's already a reliever...

[harfman77]

Again, unless I'm looking at the wrong Jace Fry, I think he's already a reliever...

 

You're correct, that was my bad. I thought he was still starting. Must have been a pretty good idea.

Edited August 24, 2017 by IowaSoxFan

[harfman77]

So with Fulmer, if you aren't as concerned about keeping him in games longer, do you let him go back to his older more violent mechanics? Or was that also to help him get more control (which seems to have failed)

 

I would. He hasn't had much success implementing the new stuff, kind of like the Sox had to break Giolito out of the new mechanics that the Nats gave him that seemingly derailed him last season.

[southsider2k5]

So with Fulmer, if you aren't as concerned about keeping him in games longer, do you let him go back to his older more violent mechanics? Or was that also to help him get more control (which seems to have failed)

 

In his case, you need to give him innings and reps, along with a ritual and routine. Whether it is old or new or whatever, he needs consistency and repetition. 122 IP as a starter this year. 103 IP last year. Let him do whatever this year. Send him back to Charlotte next year with a clear routine and let him get 150 IP. Just forget he is even there for now. Realistically he should be somewhere around AA in his development at this point anyway. Even if he needs to go back again in 2019, let him do it. You can make him a reliever at any time. But you can't build innings and repetitions that way.

[harfman77]

Carson Fulmer is just about to finish his first full season as a starter in professional baseball after 2.5 years in pro ball. There is no good reason to rush him out of the starting role. Just leave him alone and let him get his reps.

 

The guy is going to be 24 on OD next season. His AAA numbers this season are just not good, 5.61 ERA with a WHIP of 1.56. I think he could end up as a high leverage guy if you let him go back to his old mechanics and get the velocity uptick from throwing shorter outings. If things go right you get a guy like Roberto Osuna out of it and that is probably just as valuable if not more valuable than the back end starter that Fulmer appears to be on track to become. He had 21 starts a year ago and his stat line was pretty predictive of his success this season. I do not know of many players that become much better after repeating a year at the same level. Usually if a player stalls out at a certain level of the minors its an omen to move on. I am sure there are exceptions to this, as there almost always are, but given his development curve I find it hard to have faith that he will be any more successful as a starter than he has been.

 

If you move him to the pen and give him a year to setup and close, he is a really valuable player next winter either to be a part of the rebuild or as a trade piece to reinforce what the Sox have coming up now.

 

I think optimally he would start the season as the 7th inning guy and work later in the game as he gained confidence and when Nate Jones inevitably hits the DL again.

 

Mechanic changes are really tough for players to adapt to. If they change something and don't have success they are going to struggle to have confidence that the change is really for the better. On the flip side you get a guy like Hansen where his mechanical changes produce immediate results it is a lot easier to have faith in the process.

 

In addition to that, you are going to have guys pushing their way up into that AAA rotation alongside Kopech in Adams, Guerrero, and Stephens with Dunning and Hansen probably not too far behind.

[southsider2k5]

The guy is going to be 24 on OD next season. His AAA numbers this season are just not good, 5.61 ERA with a WHIP of 1.56. I think he could end up as a high leverage guy if you let him go back to his old mechanics and get the velocity uptick from throwing shorter outings. If things go right you get a guy like Roberto Osuna out of it and that is probably just as valuable if not more valuable than the back end starter that Fulmer appears to be on track to become. He had 21 starts a year ago and his stat line was pretty predictive of his success this season. I do not know of many players that become much better after repeating a year at the same level. Usually if a player stalls out at a certain level of the minors its an omen to move on. I am sure there are exceptions to this, as there almost always are, but given his development curve I find it hard to have faith that he will be any more successful as a starter than he has been.

 

If you move him to the pen and give him a year to setup and close, he is a really valuable player next winter either to be a part of the rebuild or as a trade piece to reinforce what the Sox have coming up now.

 

I think optimally he would start the season as the 7th inning guy and work later in the game as he gained confidence and when Nate Jones inevitably hits the DL again.

 

Mechanic changes are really tough for players to adapt to. If they change something and don't have success they are going to struggle to have confidence that the change is really for the better. On the flip side you get a guy like Hansen where his mechanical changes produce immediate results it is a lot easier to have faith in the process.

 

In addition to that, you are going to have guys pushing their way up into that AAA rotation alongside Kopech in Adams, Guerrero, and Stephens with Dunning and Hansen probably not too far behind.

 

Moving him to the pen doesn't actually fix the underlying problems in Carson Fulmer. In fact it makes them harder to get fixed as he gets less repetition and structure in his work. Fulmer isn't a typical starter who worked 300-400 minor league innings as a consistent starter in a set role. He is a guy who already had some mechanical questions, was rushed through the minors, and has just now worked his first full season as a starting pitcher. The guy needs regular and consistent work, and as much of it as we can get. Besides with the next season or two being bleak anyway, the franchise loses absolutely nothing by his sitting in Charlotte even if he does it for both his age 24 and 25 seasons.

[ChiSox59]

Leave Fulmer alone for now. Can move him to the pen in 2019 if next year is another failure.

 

I like Peter as a poor man's Zobrist. I see no problem giving him OF reps.

 

Hawkins is whatever to me. Bullpen, OF, release. Don't really care. Don't see the harm in giving him a shot on the mound first.

[harfman77]

Moving him to the pen doesn't actually fix the underlying problems in Carson Fulmer. In fact it makes them harder to get fixed as he gets less repetition and structure in his work. Fulmer isn't a typical starter who worked 300-400 minor league innings as a consistent starter in a set role. He is a guy who already had some mechanical questions, was rushed through the minors, and has just now worked his first full season as a starting pitcher. The guy needs regular and consistent work, and as much of it as we can get. Besides with the next season or two being bleak anyway, the franchise loses absolutely nothing by his sitting in Charlotte even if he does it for both his age 24 and 25 seasons.

 

I think that the underlying problem is the change in his delivery and the delivery was changed so that he could handle a starter workload, so I believe it would fix the underlying problem. This is his second season as a pro starter, I get that last season was temporarily interrupted by a short relief stint in the majors. His numbers are moving in the wrong direction and I don't think repeating the level next year is really going to fix anything on its own either.

[harfman77]

Hawkins is whatever to me. Bullpen, OF, release. Don't really care. Don't see the harm in giving him a shot on the mound first.

 

To me the options are give him a shot at pitching or release him, too many OF's pushing for playing time to keep giving him opportunities, and if he isn't playing everyday he's probably not going to progress.

[southsider2k5]

I think that the underlying problem is the change in his delivery and the delivery was changed so that he could handle a starter workload, so I believe it would fix the underlying problem. This is his second season as a pro starter, I get that last season was temporarily interrupted by a short relief stint in the majors. His numbers are moving in the wrong direction and I don't think repeating the level next year is really going to fix anything on its own either.

 

Just changing back isn't a panacea. Giolito is still struggling with exactly that and can't repeat his delivery from pitch to pitch after 6 months of trying. There isn't any need for a reliever next year on the roster, so you give him another year at least to hope he gets it.

[southsider2k5]

To me the options are give him a shot at pitching or release him, too many OF's pushing for playing time to keep giving him opportunities, and if he isn't playing everyday he's probably not going to progress.

 

Next year is the first time that Hawkins position might actually be needed by legit prospects.