Rating Coop

[ron883]

I was just thinking how lucky the Sox are to have one of the all time great pitching coaches. Sometimes I take it for granted that we've got him. He is one of the best, and he seems to love the south side and the organization. He will no doubt have a job with the team until he decides he wants to hang it up.

 

How do you rate Coop currently and in terms of the all time greats? I'm really not sure the best way to rank pitching coaches. People always say hitting coaches don't have a huge impact, but I think most can agree that pitching coaches are a bit more impactful on the game.

 

Cheers to Coop. He's the man.

[Buehrle>Wood]

He's pretty amazing. The Sox spend next to nothing on their pitching staffs and he still manages to churn out success story after success story. He might be the best coach in Sox history.

[SoxAce]

A ton of guys owe half of their career paychecks to him thats for sure.

[Quin]

His turnaround time on fixing Clippard was hilariously fast.

[BamaDoc]

Guys I remember are Duncan with LaRussa, Mazzone with braves, and Stottlemeyer with Yankees. I'm sure there are others but often we aren't aware of them if they aren't frequently in post season.

[ChiSox1917]

Mlb the show rates him terribly as a pitching coach every year in their video games. Really pisses me off when i see his ratings in my franchise mode

Edited August 27, 2017 by ChiSox1917

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I was just thinking how lucky the Sox are to have one of the all time great pitching coaches. Sometimes I take it for granted that we've got him. He is one of the best, and he seems to love the south side and the organization. He will no doubt have a job with the team until he decides he wants to hang it up.

 

How do you rate Coop currently and in terms of the all time greats? I'm really not sure the best way to rank pitching coaches. People always say hitting coaches don't have a huge impact, but I think most can agree that pitching coaches are a bit more impactful on the game.

 

Cheers to Coop. He's the man.

I'm sure Coop would be the first to admit that it's a group effort from him down to the pitching coaches in the minors since we are well aware that the Sox are pretty adept at developing pitching talent.

[Quin]

Coop has also been part of four staffs, showing his value and loyalty to the org.

 

Don Cooper and Herm Schneider could very well be the best two hires the White Sox ever made for how they excel.

[Dick Allen]

It's amazing just how bulletproof Coop is with the fan base. No other coach has ever ripped fans for not showing up more than he has. He gets all the credit for any success his pitchers have, and gets no blame when they suck. Every other coach and manager, it's pretty much the opposite. All the blame when they suck, it's all the player when they do well. A guy goes down to the minors and starts throwing strikes, comes back and Coop is a genius. A guy sucks with the White Sox and goes on and becomes a decent pitcher elsewhere...not Coop's fault. IMO, the reality is somewhere in the middle, he's a good pitching coach, but not this treasure he's made out to be.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Dick Allen

[Bob Sacamano]

It's amazing just how bulletproof Coop is with the fan base. No other coach has ever ripped fans for not showing up more than he has. He gets all the credit for any success his pitchers have, and gets no blame when they suck. Every other coach and manager, it's pretty much the opposite. All the blame when they suck, it's all the player when they do well. A guy goes down to the minors and starts throwing strikes, comes back and Coop is a genius. A guy sucks with the White Sox and goes on and becomes a decent pitcher elsewhere...not Coop's fault. IMO, the reality is somewhere in the middle, he's a good pitching coach, but not this treasure he's made out to be.

 

Agreed. He's not some sort of prophet but he's a good coach.

Edited August 28, 2017 by soxfan2014

[TaylorStSox]

It's amazing just how bulletproof Coop is with the fan base. No other coach has ever ripped fans for not showing up more than he has. He gets all the credit for any success his pitchers have, and gets no blame when they suck. Every other coach and manager, it's pretty much the opposite. All the blame when they suck, it's all the player when they do well. A guy goes down to the minors and starts throwing strikes, comes back and Coop is a genius. A guy sucks with the White Sox and goes on and becomes a decent pitcher elsewhere...not Coop's fault. IMO, the reality is somewhere in the middle, he's a good pitching coach, but not this treasure he's made out to be.

Can you give any specific examples for any part of this post. I'm genuinely curious.

[Dick Allen]

Can you give any specific examples for any part of this post. I'm genuinely curious.

Javy Vazquez

Francisco Liriano

 

Tommy Kahnle went to the minors, where Coop isn't and figured out how to throw strikes. Coop's a genius.

 

Tyler Clippard having a decent 10 innings....Don Cooper. James Shields, Derek Holland sucking more than they ever have...nothing Coop could do.

 

For some reason, I doubt Chris Sale is a #5 starter without Don Cooper.

 

White Sox trying to win with a depleted roster and lose, manager sucks.

 

White Sox leading off a done Darrin Erstad and can't hit... obviously the hitting coach sucks.

 

Not only that, but Coop has been on the radio many times ripping White Sox fans and their refusal to go to games. If a poster says something like that, they get rebutted like crazy, but Coop? Not so much.

 

There are hundreds more.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Dick Allen

[bmags]

Coops main asset is his partnership with Herm in keeping players healthy.

 

He also failed with Aardsma, who had more success after. He failed with Smarj, who figured it back out after him.

 

Coops trademark is steadiness and health. But his highs ahve not hit as much as Carl Willis or Bosio.

 

And there's stuff like this: are the dodgers actually bad at preventing injuries or do they just take more risks with high-risk players?

 

I am glad to have a pitching coach who keeps players healthy. That has propped up this org quite a bit. But his talent for especially getting amazing performances out of players? I find that a bit overrated.

[Lip Man 1]

I was just thinking how lucky the Sox are to have one of the all time great pitching coaches. Sometimes I take it for granted that we've got him. He is one of the best, and he seems to love the south side and the organization. He will no doubt have a job with the team until he decides he wants to hang it up.

 

How do you rate Coop currently and in terms of the all time greats? I'm really not sure the best way to rank pitching coaches. People always say hitting coaches don't have a huge impact, but I think most can agree that pitching coaches are a bit more impactful on the game.

 

Cheers to Coop. He's the man.

 

Don is a good pitching coach (although the last few years have shown mixed results) but by far the best White Sox pitching coach ever was Ray Berres who worked for many years under Al Lopez. The number of pitchers he helped and turned out in the 50's and 60's is staggering.

 

And Johnny Sain, Chuck Tanner's pitching coach had a run of years (including many when he was with other teams) of having at least a 20 game winner every season.

 

Those two stand out to me as 1-2 for the Sox all time.

[Lip Man 1]

Can you give any specific examples for any part of this post. I'm genuinely curious.

 

For example I have on the computer the screen shots of Cooper's comments on twitter ripping Sox fans. I'm sorry I have no idea how to post those but that wasn't the first time he's done this.

 

Also numerous times on his radio show segment, he has gone off on the fan-base.

 

It's unfortunate since the Sox need all the fans they can get.

 

I've always been very surprised since this has happened often that JR or someone in the front office, hasn't spoken to him about this. It simply makes no business sense to rip on the paying customers / potential future customers.

 

http://sportsmockery.com/2015/04/pitching-...white-sox-fans/

 

 

Edited August 28, 2017 by Lip Man 1

[ptatc]

Javy Vazquez

Francisco Liriano

 

Tommy Kahnle went to the minors, where Coop isn't and figured out how to throw strikes. Coop's a genius.

 

Tyler Clippard having a decent 10 innings....Don Cooper. James Shields, Derek Holland sucking more than they ever have...nothing Coop could do.

 

For some reason, I doubt Chris Sale is a #5 starter without Don Cooper.

 

White Sox trying to win with a depleted roster and lose, manager sucks.

 

White Sox leading off a done Darrin Erstad and can't hit... obviously the hitting coach sucks.

 

Not only that, but Coop has been on the radio many times ripping White Sox fans and their refusal to go to games. If a poster says something like that, they get rebutted like crazy, but Coop? Not so much.

 

There are hundreds more.

I do give some credit for Chris Sale to Cooper for two reasons. The first is that they drafted him with the intention of keeping him as a starter. Cooper had input on this and many other organizations wouldn't. The secondis allowing Sale to retain his scary mechanics and working with them. This again was not tge path that many other organizations would have taken.

 

Cooper is not bulletproof but his successes compared to most other coaches should have hi about as close as one can be.

 

[southsider2k5]

I do give some credit for Chris Sale to Cooper for two reasons. The first is that they drafted him with the intention of keeping him as a starter. Cooper had input on this and many other organizations wouldn't. The secondis allowing Sale to retain his scary mechanics and working with them. This again was not tge path that many other organizations would have taken.

 

Cooper is not bulletproof but his successes compared to most other coaches should have hi about as close as one can be.

 

 

Just like anything, no one is going to have 100% good or bad. I do think when compared to contemporaries Cooper has an enviable record. Chris Sale and even more than Sale, Jose Quintana, are great feathers to have in your cap. There are plenty of other examples of guys he has turned around. Sure there are guys that he couldn't get through to, but there are plenty of those around sports in general. Take a Jay Cutler. The dude had Hall of Fame potential, but no coach could get through to him. Does that mean all of the coaches that had him were failures?

[Lip Man 1]

Take a Jay Cutler. The dude had Hall of Fame potential, but no coach could get through to him. Does that mean all of the coaches that had him were failures?

 

Very fair point.

 

[hi8is]

11.

[Wanne]

Just like anything, no one is going to have 100% good or bad. I do think when compared to contemporaries Cooper has an enviable record. Chris Sale and even more than Sale, Jose Quintana, are great feathers to have in your cap. There are plenty of other examples of guys he has turned around. Sure there are guys that he couldn't get through to, but there are plenty of those around sports in general. Take a Jay Cutler. The dude had Hall of Fame potential, but no coach could get through to him. Does that mean all of the coaches that had him were failures?

 

good post. And like you said...not every pitcher can translate what's being taught either. Sox are lucky to have Coop tho. This idiot cub fan was arguing with me after the Q trade telling me Coop couldn't carry Bosio's jock lol...and that Bosio identified something and fixed it (of course that was after the 1st outing and singing a different tune now).

 

As for Cutler...let's see how he does this year. He and Gase work very well together. I don't lay it all on Cutler seeing how he's had (of his 6-7 different OCs and crap lines the last how many years). I say he'll have a good year if he stays healthy. But that's a great analogy.

[Dick Allen]

Very fair point.

It is fair, but my point is if a pitcher thrives, it always seems to come back to Cooper. If he doesn't, hey, the guy sucks, KW should never have acquired him...Coop can't get through to everybody.

 

Some guys would still be good pitchers if Nardi Contreras came back. I don't mind Cooper, and despite what some may think, really never have. I have just marveled at the double standard some have with other coaches and managers. They are blamed for suck, Coop can only overcome it. It is never his fault. And considering he is probably the least fan friendly of all of them, it just seems a bit weird.

 

If these coaches had as big of an influence of a guy being a star or out of the league in a year or 2, they would make more money thant the players.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

It is fair, but my point is if a pitcher thrives, it always seems to come back to Cooper. If he doesn't, hey, the guy sucks, KW should never have acquired him...Coop can't get through to everybody.

 

Some guys would still be good pitchers if Nardi Contreras came back. I don't mind Cooper, and despite what some may think, really never have. I have just marveled at the double standard some have with other coaches and managers. They are blamed for suck, Coop can only overcome it. It is never his fault. And considering he is probably the least fan friendly of all of them, it just seems a bit weird.

 

If these coaches had as big of an influence of a guy being a star or out of the league in a year or 2, they would make more money thant the players.

 

You are taking what fans think and turning it into some sort of meaning for his actual body of work. None of what fans think actually matters.

 

As to the last part, Don Cooper basically has worked himself into a job for life while managers, general managers, and coaches have come and gone. I'd say that telling each new manager that Don Cooper is your pitching coach is a pretty clear indictment of what the White Sox top management thinks of what Cooper has done during his body of work here.

[Dick Allen]

You are taking what fans think and turning it into some sort of meaning for his actual body of work. None of what fans think actually matters.

 

As to the last part, Don Cooper basically has worked himself into a job for life while managers, general managers, and coaches have come and gone. I'd say that telling each new manager that Don Cooper is your pitching coach is a pretty clear indictment of what the White Sox top management thinks of what Cooper has done during his body of work here.

 

Considering some of the employees that seem to qualify as a job for life under the Reinsdorfs, it's not necessarily a ringing endorsement. Ozzie would still be managing if he didn't set it on fire. Robin would still be managing if he wanted. Not many people are asked to leave. And this conversation was a response to a response to my post as to why I find it odd Don Cooper is bulletproof to most White Sox fans, considering who they have layed blame about failure and given credit for success for everything else.

 

Again, I don't have a problem with him, but the fawning over him any time a pitcher does well is something I find curious.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

Considering some of the employees that seem to qualify as a job for life under the Reinsdorfs, it's not necessarily a ringing endorsement. Ozzie would still be managing if he didn't set it on fire. Robin would still be managing if he wanted. Not many people are asked to leave. And this conversation was a response to a response to my post as to why I find it odd Don Cooper is bulletproof to most White Sox fans, considering who they have layed blame about failure and given credit for success for everything else.

 

Again, I don't have a problem with him, but the fawning over him any time a pitcher does well is something I find curious.

 

Except no one has worked nearly as long as Cooper.

[Dick Allen]

Except no one has worked nearly as long as Cooper.

 

Not in uniform, although Kirk Champion is pretty close, and doesn't get much praise.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Dick Allen