Kopech will have a chance to win a rotation spot next spring

[southsider2k5]

Hahn is going to sign him to 9 year $60M contract this offseason and he will be in the 2018 opening day rotation and hit free agency at 29 years old.

 

I would use green but I am not certain if I am joking.

 

If we really signed him to a deal like that with options on the back end for at least the last two years... Go ahead and put him on the opening day roster.

[Rowand44]

I highly doubt he's up out of Spring Training but he's going to be up soon. So is Eloy. Wouldn't be shocked if Hansen is too. Kopech and Eloy are already good enough imo to make Major League impacts. Might take them a few months to get their feet wet but Kopech and Eloy especially are going to be making impacts soon.

 

This really shouldn't surprise anyone, players are getting called up earlier and earlier and making quick impacts too. I know everyone is jaded by the Sox lack of success with developing their own talent(especially on the offensive end) but some of these guys are going to be ready to go and Gordon Beckham shouldn't stop us from calling them up.

Edited August 29, 2017 by Rowand44

[he gone.]

I'm not the first to mention 120 losses on here.

And guess what? With this bullpen, it's a 110-120 loss team.

 

I'll take the under. Sox are 12-14 over the last month ... It's very tough to find a 120 loss team as it was mentioned in this thread earlier. We have played almost .500 baseball with no Swarzak, Kanhle, Quintana, Robertson, etc. etc. etc.

 

 

Also Kanhle, Swarzak, etc. were all finds via FA or small trades. Cooper and the Sox revitalized their careers and flipped them for talent.. you better believe that Hahn and the scouts have been scouring the minors and majors for similar candidates.

 

 

This team is a 70 win team next year at worst. Hell this year were gonna be a 65-67 win team... I'm not sure where we are worse off next year....

[greg775]

I beg to differ I am pretty sure you are the first and only

I read 120 losses in one of the threads, that's why it was on my mind.

[lasttriptotulsa]

I'm not the first to mention 120 losses on here.

And guess what? With this bullpen, it's a 110-120 loss team.

 

The bullpen right now is as pathetic as I can ever remember seeing. The Sox are on pace to "only" lose 97 games. They have gone 14-22 since trading their two stud relievers in Robertson and Kahnle, which would also be a 97 loss pace. Where are those other 13-23 losses coming from? With Moncada, Giolito, and Lopez being up for the whole year plus a full year out of Rodon and another year of development for all the young players, something would have to go horribly wrong for this team to lose even 110 games. Not to mention 120, which as I stated before only one team had ever done. Do you really think next years team is going to be among the 5 worst in the history of baseball? Give me a break. Quit talking about s*** you don't have a clue on and go watch your precious Royals and be done with it.

[greg775]

The bullpen right now is as pathetic as I can ever remember seeing. The Sox are on pace to "only" lose 97 games. They have gone 14-22 since trading their two stud relievers in Robertson and Kahnle, which would also be a 97 loss pace. Where are those other 13-23 losses coming from? With Moncada, Giolito, and Lopez being up for the whole year plus a full year out of Rodon and another year of development for all the young players, something would have to go horribly wrong for this team to lose even 110 games. Not to mention 120, which as I stated before only one team had ever done. Do you really think next years team is going to be among the 5 worst in the history of baseball? Give me a break. Quit talking about s*** you don't have a clue on and go watch your precious Royals and be done with it.

I amended it to between 110 and 120 losses unless they do something if they want to improve. I pointed out in the scenario presented the starting rotation would be very good but in this day and age if you went into next season with this bullpen yes they'd lose over 100 games. If the argument is 110 to 120 is too high would u at least agree it's a 105 loss team with this bullpen? As to where the losses come from, I'd suggest they'd pile up in April and continue from there.

I guess if the Royals are total s*** and the Tigers total crap the Sox could conceivably go 10-9 or 9-10 against both which would cut into my 110 to 120 losses theory. I'd expect both Minnie and Cleveland to own us. Maybe to the tune of 15-4 or 14-5.

I also could see the .500 scenario begin if the Sox as i said in the other post went with the 4 good young starters and add a veteran and also decide to rebuild the bullpen this offseason. Not sure who the lockdown closer is whom they could acquire but they start the bullpen rebuild if they wished.

 

p.s. I maintain "most" fans on this site want our stud young pitchers to be in the minors all next season. It's part of the rebuild mystery. They don't want Giolito, Kopech, even Lopez anywhere near the majors next season. Rodon and four hacks and let the losses pile up. I hate to waste pitches on rodon's arm as well. I hope most of the projected stars all get a fresh start on Day One some April. By then poor Moncada and TA could be frazzled by a lotta losses.

Edited August 29, 2017 by greg775

[jenksycat]

Hahn is going to sign him to 9 year $60M contract this offseason and he will be in the 2018 opening day rotation and hit free agency at 29 years old.

 

I would use green but I am not certain if I am joking.

 

Is it 'legal' to use promotion to The Show as a negotiating factor? I think that was how we got Sale to sign so quickly

[southsider2k5]

Is it 'legal' to use promotion to The Show as a negotiating factor? I think that was how we got Sale to sign so quickly

 

The Astros have done it in the past.

[BlackSox13]

I don't expect the 2018 White Sox to contend but I don't think they will be a 100 loss team either. If people want to use the pen as a crutch for the basis of their argument that the Sox will lose 100-120 games that fine but I'll go ahead and see what Hahn comes up with over the winter before making hilarious loss projections.

 

Back to Kopech. Hoping he starts the '18 season in Charlotte. If he picks up from where left off this year, he won't be down their long. If anything, Kopech's walk rate is perfect reason to send him down to Charlotte towards the end of ST.

[joejoedairy]

p.s. I maintain "most" fans on this site want our stud young pitchers to be in the minors all next season. It's part of the rebuild mystery. They don't want Giolito, Kopech, even Lopez anywhere near the majors next season. Rodon and four hacks and let the losses pile up. I hate to waste pitches on rodon's arm as well. I hope most of the projected stars all get a fresh start on Day One some April. By then poor Moncada and TA could be frazzled by a lotta losses.

 

Not sure where you're getting this.

 

I know I expect Giolito and Lopez to be on the opening day roster and many others have said the same thing.

 

I think Kopech comes up after about 10 starts in AAA (assuming he's doing well)

 

 

I actually do hope they attempt to compete next season, but not at the detriment to the rebuild. I don't think they'll be above .500 next year but I'll be upset if they tank the season by not having anyone reliable in the bullpen.

[Bob Sacamano]

Is it 'legal' to use promotion to The Show as a negotiating factor? I think that was how we got Sale to sign so quickly

 

Sale was in the big leagues wen he signed his extension. Unless you're talking about when he got his draft bonus?

[jenksycat]

I don't expect the 2018 White Sox to contend but I don't think they will be a 100 loss team either. If people want to use the pen as a crutch for the basis of their argument that the Sox will lose 100-120 games that fine but I'll go ahead and see what Hahn comes up with over the winter before making hilarious loss projections.

 

Back to Kopech. Hoping he starts the '18 season in Charlotte. If he picks up from where left off this year, he won't be down their long. If anything, Kopech's walk rate is perfect reason to send him down to Charlotte towards the end of ST.

 

Not a single person outside of Greg thinks 2018 Sox will be a 120 loss team because that is absurd.

 

 

Sale was in the big leagues wen he signed his extension. Unless you're talking about when he got his draft bonus?

 

Yeah draft signing is what I meant. I know there's b****ing from the PA when guys are kept down in the minors just for extra control (Kris Bryant example) but wasn't sure if you could actually say "if you sign this contract you will be in the majors on April 1st 2018"

[greg775]

Not sure where you're getting this.

 

I know I expect Giolito and Lopez to be on the opening day roster and many others have said the same thing.

 

I think Kopech comes up after about 10 starts in AAA (assuming he's doing well)

 

 

I actually do hope they attempt to compete next season, but not at the detriment to the rebuild. I don't think they'll be above .500 next year but I'll be upset if they tank the season by not having anyone reliable in the bullpen.

Good. I like your sentiments.

 

You can maintain all you want. You're wrong.

Good. I hope everybody wants the youngsters in the bigs as soon as possible.

[BlackSox13]

Not a single person outside of Greg thinks 2018 Sox will be a 120 loss team because that is absurd.

Yeah. I don't get the gloom and doom tin foil hat stuff. I mean , we all know the Sox are going to go through growing pains while the kids mature and acclimate but 120 losses? Come on. I seriously doubt they lose 100 and I don't have high expectations for the '18 season.

[reiks12]

why not?

[Jose Abreu]

why not?

service time

[BaconOnAStick]

I think service time is a much smaller concern in pitchers than it is hitters. Boras clients notwithstanding, pitchers seem very keen on locking in extensions once they are able. If Kopech breaks camp with the big league club and is lights out for his first two full seasons it is very likely he will lock-in a below-market extension (that would still make him set for life) rather than risk injury for four more seasons waiting on a massive payday. The Sox probably already have some idea of Kopech's camps willingness to embark on such an extension, and if they feel its a strong possibility there is really no reason for Kopech to waste his talents in Charlotte.

[Jerksticks]

I think service time is a much smaller concern in pitchers than it is hitters. Boras clients notwithstanding, pitchers seem very keen on locking in extensions once they are able. If Kopech breaks camp with the big league club and is lights out for his first two full seasons it is very likely he will lock-in a below-market extension (that would still make him set for life) rather than risk injury for four more seasons waiting on a massive payday. The Sox probably already have some idea of Kopech's camps willingness to embark on such an extension, and if they feel its a strong possibility there is really no reason for Kopech to waste his talents in Charlotte.

Nice point man. I like that you've outlined how it's not always as cut & dry as "gain extra year=smart" and "not gain extra year=dumb".

 

The respect gained by letting him break camp if he's earned it could pay out tenfold in the long run (likeliness of extension due to goodwill increases dramatically) compared to the extra year of time.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Jerksticks

[GreenSox]

0 reason to rush him up if he has a good couple weeks in spring.

Agree

But habits are hard to break.

[ptatc]

Nice point man. I like that you've outlined how it's not always as cut & dry as "gain extra year=smart" and "not gain extra year=dumb".

 

The respect gained by letting him break camp if he's earned it could pay out tenfold in the long run (likeliness of extension due to goodwill increases dramatically) compared to the extra year of time.

Very true. you don't think that the players talk about this. There is bad blood when the players know they were kept down just to gain the extra year of decreased earnings. So they will need to decide if that is worth making the player want to leave when they become an FA in their prime.

[he gone.]

I amended it to between 110 and 120 losses unless they do something if they want to improve. I pointed out in the scenario presented the starting rotation would be very good but in this day and age if you went into next season with this bullpen yes they'd lose over 100 games. If the argument is 110 to 120 is too high would u at least agree it's a 105 loss team with this bullpen? As to where the losses come from, I'd suggest they'd pile up in April and continue from there.

I guess if the Royals are total s*** and the Tigers total crap the Sox could conceivably go 10-9 or 9-10 against both which would cut into my 110 to 120 losses theory. I'd expect both Minnie and Cleveland to own us. Maybe to the tune of 15-4 or 14-5.

I also could see the .500 scenario begin if the Sox as i said in the other post went with the 4 good young starters and add a veteran and also decide to rebuild the bullpen this offseason. Not sure who the lockdown closer is whom they could acquire but they start the bullpen rebuild if they wished.

 

p.s. I maintain "most" fans on this site want our stud young pitchers to be in the minors all next season. It's part of the rebuild mystery. They don't want Giolito, Kopech, even Lopez anywhere near the majors next season. Rodon and four hacks and let the losses pile up. I hate to waste pitches on rodon's arm as well. I hope most of the projected stars all get a fresh start on Day One some April. By then poor Moncada and TA could be frazzled by a lotta losses.

 

 

Huh?

 

So they'll be 120 loss team. But maybe 110. Possibly 105 loss team. But if they go with the pitchers they are already bringing up (Lopez, Giolito, possibly Kopech + Rodon) and add a bullpen piece then we could be an 80 loss team.

 

 

You sure you don't want to add in that we could win 90 if we add a nice bat too?

 

It's a very Skip Bayless argument - cover all bases. That way it's a correct argument next year. I guess every board needs someone to stir the pot..

 

This team is a 65-70 win team this year.

70-75 win team next year

And a giant question mark for 2019 based on a ton of factors.

[Wanne]

I think service time is a much smaller concern in pitchers than it is hitters. Boras clients notwithstanding, pitchers seem very keen on locking in extensions once they are able. If Kopech breaks camp with the big league club and is lights out for his first two full seasons it is very likely he will lock-in a below-market extension (that would still make him set for life) rather than risk injury for four more seasons waiting on a massive payday. The Sox probably already have some idea of Kopech's camps willingness to embark on such an extension, and if they feel its a strong possibility there is really no reason for Kopech to waste his talents in Charlotte.

 

this is an excellent point. As for Kopech being in the OD rotation...if he earns it I have no problem with it. Be nice to see some of the other young guys fast track too.

[Chicago White Sox]

I think service time is a much smaller concern in pitchers than it is hitters. Boras clients notwithstanding, pitchers seem very keen on locking in extensions once they are able. If Kopech breaks camp with the big league club and is lights out for his first two full seasons it is very likely he will lock-in a below-market extension (that would still make him set for life) rather than risk injury for four more seasons waiting on a massive payday. The Sox probably already have some idea of Kopech's camps willingness to embark on such an extension, and if they feel its a strong possibility there is really no reason for Kopech to waste his talents in Charlotte.

Not waiting two weeks to ensure an extra year of control would be a fireable offense IMO. I can't believe there are people on this site who would be ok with. Completely mind-boggling.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Michael Kopech will not break camp with the White Sox in 2018. No chance. I do think we see him pretty quickly though.

[flavum]

Not waiting two weeks to ensure an extra year of control would be a fireable offense IMO. I can't believe there are people on this site who would be ok with. Completely mind-boggling.

 

True, and as I said yesterday, if you listen to the interview, it's a big stretch he'll be on the team before the break.