Trade avi in the offseason?

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

If Melky Cabrera was 26.. Would you really give him a 5 year 80 million dollar deal? The perfect comp to Avi Garcia is Melky.. period.

[southsider2k5]

If Melky Cabrera was 26.. Would you really give him a 5 year 80 million dollar deal? The perfect comp to Avi Garcia is Melky.. period.

 

Considering he is coming off of a 3/42 that he signed at age 30, it isn't THAT crazy.

[OmarComing25]

If Melky Cabrera was 26.. Would you really give him a 5 year 80 million dollar deal? The perfect comp to Avi Garcia is Melky.. period.

Nah Melky has rated as a bottom five outfielder defensively the last couple years while Avi has rated out as average/neutral, that's a big difference. Plus Avi is much faster.

[Greg Hibbard]

Who knows if we get the .300/.830+ or if we get a .270/.780 or a .245/.690 season next year.

 

I don't think anyone in the universe thinks Avi will have this good of a year ever again

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

If Melky Cabrera was 26.. Would you really give him a 5 year 80 million dollar deal? The perfect comp to Avi Garcia is Melky.. period.

Perfect example of what I was saying about poster arrogance. Perfect comp is Melky ,PERIOD. So cocksure yet ignored defense you know, the other half of the game besides offense.

Edited September 15, 2017 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

Perfect example of what I was saying about poster arrogance. Perfect comp is Melky ,PERIOD. So cocksure yet ignored defense you know, the other half of the game besides offense.

 

 

lol.. why are we acting like Avi is a saint defensively? Melky is bad, yes. Avi is not much better. Let's not forget when melky was 26 (same as Avi) he was a CF'er. Much harder position. Avi is 26 and is relegated to a corner OF spot (at best). That comp is not out of the ordinarily, and I'd like someone to give me one better.. I'm open to one, Melky just came to mind quick and it made and still makes so much sense. Especially when you consider how much faster Melky was then.

[chitownsportsfan]

Perfect example of what I was saying about poster arrogance. Perfect comp is Melky ,PERIOD. So cocksure yet ignored defense you know, the other half of the game besides offense.

 

There's plenty of careful, nuanced, productive chatter on this forum. It's a great place to talk Sox. Just try and ignore the obvious trolls and not take things personally. I had a beef with SS2K back a year or so ago and once I realized that taking offense to everything is a poor attitude (in life as well as message boards) I found him a great poster. Not saying he's a perfect poster (who is) but everybody has opinions that at times you will disagree with, sometimes vehemently. Just don't take it personal or bother responding to it.

 

As for the saber stuff...it's a tool. No more, no less. I played the game throughout my youth, including being a really mediocre DIII outfielder. I didn't even discover sabermetrics until a few years after I graduated but man I really wish I had before I stopped playing -- I think they could have helped me evaluate myself and improve. Scouting has worth as well, it's not an "either / or" analysis.

Edited September 15, 2017 by chitownsportsfan

[greg775]

for a guy who shouldn't have made this roster out of spring training.

Yes he should have made this roster out of spring training because his performance has been outstanding! That means whatever manager/coach or scout demanded he make the team was prescient. That person deserves a raise. My biggest pet peeve is nobody can just be unequivocably be happy for Avi. He had one helluva season. So we nitpick. He ONLY has 17 homers. He only is flirting with 80 RBI. He also played hurt A LOT. He had a great great season and for once I wish Sox fans would have a thread simply praising such a season/player rather than be worried sick the team is going to actually give him some money of note.

 

You need to build a winning team around a core group of veterans. Jose Abreu and Avi Garcia fit that category.

Not to most Sox fans on this board. They deep down are saying they want all youngsters. Avi ... projecting forward to our contending years, not good enough. Abreu ... projecting forward, not good enough. Hogwash. You are completely right, El Rockin. Avi and Abreu would be so important to our contending team instead of all young players. I LOL at our fans who just hate the idea of paying somebody like Avi and/or Abreu and yet they'd gladly have given Robert DOUBLE what we gave him to bring him aboard. The LOVE of the unknown player is such a cliche, but it grips the sports world daily and our fans worship the unknown and undervalue the known. They also want Jerry to spend no money (cept for international signings), which is great for Jerry. Please think of greg every time you order a 9 dollar beer at the game and pay whatever it costs to park. Think of my stance on spend, spend, spend please! Bless u El Rockin. You are correct about this and most issues.

Edited September 15, 2017 by greg775

[harkness99]

highly doubt he will ever be traded... given how young he is and were doing that rebuild thing...

[southsider2k5]

Just for reference's sake, when people talk about age and experience, Sale, Quintana, Eaton, and Kahnle were all years further from free agency than Avi is. It isn't about age or experience, the idea behind trading him is to have people that will be here when the Revolution is complete.

[soxforlife05]

That is precisely my point, regarding prospects. They are prone to having diminished expectations. A top prospect one day and a total bust, the next. There is risk with every player, but I'd rather put my money on a guy who has proven it, to some degree, which Avi certainly has, than a guy who has never faced a Big League pitcher.

 

Blake is literally a kid a year removed from high school. Are you going to give him the same 7-8 years to develop like Avi has been given unquestionably?

[Dam8610]

Rarely does anyone play 162. So let's just go with 150 because it's easy math and is definetely reasonable. He has hit 17 HR in 121 games.. That's 14% of games. If you multiply that by estimated games played he hits only 21... Avi is not a power hitter. You can't negate his poor month either.. Do we just negate his best month then? You include it all because bad stretches happen.

 

I'm not "negat[ing] his poor month", I'm pointing out that he had an injury that likely affected his swing and his power numbers. 5 in April, 3 in May, 3 in June, 2 in July (both pre-ASB), 0 in August, 4 in September. The thumb injury occurred in mid-July. You may see that as coincidence, but I don't.

 

[soxforlife05]

OK, that is where we really disagree. I would not accept a top 50 prospect for Avi. Blake Rutherford is a #42 ranked prospect, by MLB Pipeline and I certainly would not take someone like him, for Avi. Maybe a top 10 prospect, depending upon the tools. but not some guy who is ranked #40 or 50. May I ask, how do you know what the interest is and what the speculated price might be?

 

Again, you are getting way too caught up in a guy a year out of high school's stats. Those guys are very inconsistent until they get acclimated to professional ball. They look at the tools and projectability for those rankings not minor league stats. We have had one team so far rumored to be interested. How many teams were in on Sale? I think it was well into double digits. Quintana had probably half as many. If there is a lot of interest in a player via trade it gets national attention because the team moving the player wants to drive up the ask and make teams bid against each other.

[soxforlife05]

I think we got too used to having every player locked up for 5 years. Again, just let him play out. If he's really this good, we'll have money to sign him.

 

Exactly my point. Thank you. No, he will not be "too expensive". We will have no significant payroll commitments in place. In fact we will better be able to assess what kind of other OF's we have in the pipeline in our system to better evaluate the risk reward with extending him.

[soxforlife05]

Tell me if I'm reading the people wrong. The naysayers usually start their posts with the caveat "I love what Avi did this year or I love Avi, but ..."

The majority opinion is don't sign Avi for more years; for gawd sakes don't give him a lot of money. We are Sox fans. We don't want to pay our own. We don't respect our own (veteran players). We love prospects and we LOVE low payrolls.

 

That's how I read this thread. It's America, feel free to tell me I'm full of bleep. Read Lillian's posts and read the responses. Very few want to pay Avi/keep Avi around once he needs more money. It's prospects we want, baby. Lilian, thanks for trying and your great posts!

 

Dude for the millionth time, what is the point in potentially crippling the rebuild before it gets off the ground extending a guy who looked like a DFA candidate before this year when its not motivated by existing payroll constraints? This is not 2014 where we had a full roster in place with very little budget to work with. We don't need to make risky hail mary signings like this anymore. Let him prove himself over more seasons and if he deserves it he will get paid. The end.

Edited September 15, 2017 by soxforlife05

[southsider2k5]

Blake is literally a kid a year removed from high school. Are you going to give him the same 7-8 years to develop like Avi has been given unquestionably?

 

Avi Garcia is exactly why people should have patience with talented prospects.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

There's plenty of careful, nuanced, productive chatter on this forum. It's a great place to talk Sox. Just try and ignore the obvious trolls and not take things personally. I had a beef with SS2K back a year or so ago and once I realized that taking offense to everything is a poor attitude (in life as well as message boards) I found him a great poster. Not saying he's a perfect poster (who is) but everybody has opinions that at times you will disagree with, sometimes vehemently. Just don't take it personal or bother responding to it.

 

As for the saber stuff...it's a tool. No more, no less. I played the game throughout my youth, including being a really mediocre DIII outfielder. I didn't even discover sabermetrics until a few years after I graduated but man I really wish I had before I stopped playing -- I think they could have helped me evaluate myself and improve. Scouting has worth as well, it's not an "either / or" analysis.

Oh I only have discussions I never get angry . I am here because of the high amount of quality posts , I never block anyone I read everything. But there is and always will be arrogance when arguing . I know I come off that way sometimes with lengthy posts or high and mighty posts sitting a top my high horse , Yea I get judgmental definitely . But when I discuss players I really do try to leave the door open for differences of opinion .

[Balta1701]

Perfect example of what I was saying about poster arrogance. Perfect comp is Melky ,PERIOD. So cocksure yet ignored defense you know, the other half of the game besides offense.

Melky Cabrera is a terrible comp for him. His all star, high batting average season was entirely driven by illegal behavior. Melky Cabrera was only a .330 hitter by breaking the rules. Unless Avi's breakout as a .330 hitter is due to the same reason, Melky Cabrera's dropoff after getting caught says nothing about whether Avi Garcia will drop off.

[elrockinMT]

Dude for the millionth time, what is the point in potentially crippling the rebuild before it gets off the ground extending a guy who looked like a DFA candidate before this year when its not motivated by existing payroll constraints? This is not 2014 where we had a full roster in place with very little budget to work with. We don't need to make risky hail mary signings like this anymore. Let him prove himself over more seasons and if he deserves it he will get paid. The end.

 

What are you talking about and who are you talking about? DFA candidate?

 

[Balta1701]

What are you talking about and who are you talking about? DFA candidate?

Garcia. Avi Garcia looked like a non-tender candidate coming into this season (not DFA, but close enough). The argument is:

 

Avi has done this for 1 year after looking like a non-tender candidate

Avi is 2 years away from FA and if we're not trading him, the time to extend him is now.

Extending him now is a very high risk move as 1 year ago he looked like a non-tender candidate.

Extending him mid-rebuild could "cripple" the rebuild in his words.

 

Not sure I agree with several parts of that, but that's the statemetn.

[soxforlife05]

Garcia. Avi Garcia looked like a non-tender candidate coming into this season (not DFA, but close enough). The argument is:

 

Avi has done this for 1 year after looking like a non-tender candidate

Avi is 2 years away from FA and if we're not trading him, the time to extend him is now.

Extending him now is a very high risk move as 1 year ago he looked like a non-tender candidate.

Extending him mid-rebuild could "cripple" the rebuild in his words.

 

Not sure I agree with several parts of that, but that's the statemetn.

 

He's looked like a DFA or non-tender every season we've had him except this one. Going to laugh at all you fools once AGAIN when he reverts to his usual self next year. But hopefully someone gives us something good before then so we don't have to experience that.

 

It's a quintessential Billy Beane trade. Sell high after the career year and get toolsy high upside players who had down years. Rinse repeat.

Edited September 16, 2017 by soxforlife05

[Lemon_44]

Blake is literally a kid a year removed from high school. Are you going to give him the same 7-8 years to develop like Avi has been given unquestionably?

That's the thing with Avi. His development has pretty much come at the MLB for all of to see and everyone has formed an opinion based on that. I read numerous posts on prospects being young for a certain level of minor league play. Well, Avi was in the bigs at 21 and has finally seen things come together for him. Eloy, the next big thing, is 21 soon and just got to AA ball.

[zisk]

Who knows if we get the .300/.830+ or if we get a .270/.780 or a .245/.690 season next year.

 

I don't think anyone in the universe thinks Avi will have this good of a year ever again

Would like to disagree with you but I can't. Watched him get 5 hits and 7 rbi's

 

with 3 ground balls through the infield and 1 leg hit. He could easily have been 1 for 6

 

that night. In a bad year he probably would have.

 

 

[zisk]

That's the thing with Avi. His development has pretty much come at the MLB for all of to see and everyone has formed an opinion based on that. I read numerous posts on prospects being young for a certain level of minor league play. Well, Avi was in the bigs at 21 and has finally seen things come together for him. Eloy, the next big thing, is 21 soon and just got to AA ball.

I love your post picture. Chet was a heck of a player. 35 plus years ago, my wife helped

 

Chet's wife open a credit account at the Sears where she worked at after school.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[greg775]

He's looked like a DFA or non-tender every season we've had him except this one. Going to laugh at all you fools once AGAIN when he reverts to his usual self next year. But hopefully someone gives us something good before then so we don't have to experience that.

 

It's a quintessential Billy Beane trade. Sell high after the career year and get toolsy high upside players who had down years. Rinse repeat.

We'll be so happy for you if and when Avi sucks again and you are right about him. Congrats in advance.