Adam Engel

[credezcrew24]

Yeah, Engel is a negative WAR player, at -0.4 fWAR in 71 games.

 

Leury is at a +1.1 fWAR in 87 games.

 

Leury was pretty good before the injury, and not as much thereafter. He's also got much more positional versatility than pretty much anyone else in the roster, and is a switch hitter.

 

 

On balance, if it were a choice between Engel and Leury, I'd probably go with Leury, given that Engel simply can't hit enough to be a starter. I'm also not convinced that Engel is an overall better player than Tilson, but for Tilson being made of glass.

 

 

I do like competition, and I would not count out any of our cavalcade of middling OF options for next season. I'd let Tilson, Engel, and Liriano duke it out for CF; I'd let Anderson and Leury duke it out @ SS for next season.

 

And that's a major flaw of WAR. Leury has looked like a complete armature in CF while Engel has looked good. The metrics will tell you they've been equal and that couldn't be farther from the truth.

[Two-Gun Pete]

I highly doubt SS gets any of the treatment you are suggesting. And if the plan is for Davidson to man 3B all year, then Leury's only chance at a starting gig is CF. Personally I think Leury is the perfect super-sub and I'd rather see a Tilson/Engel CF, leaning Engel.

Oh, I agree that Anderson will be gifted the SS position. But, Leury has been the better player, despite not playing his natural position for most of the season. I was just stating my preference that Id rather have the best player play, & that whoever he is, that he EARN it.

 

Ultimately, I'll agree that Leury's best role on the next good SOX team will be as a super sub. But to start 2018, he's been better than at least two of the starters have been in 2017.

 

And that's a major flaw of WAR. Leury has looked like a complete armature in CF while Engel has looked good. The metrics will tell you they've been equal and that couldn't be farther from the truth.

Disagreed. WAR accounts for both defensive & offensive contributions by a player. And while Leury isn't a natural CF (yet), he also isn't a liability out there; certainly not the liability that Engel has been @ the plate. In fact, I believe that Leury's DRS has been better than Engel's. But, I'll agree that Engel looks better by the eye test in CF.

 

On balance, all of the options @ CF & SS have their warts. But, Leury has been the better player of the three, full stop.

 

Now, whether or not he or Anderson or Engel can be a provider of positive WAR going forward is a reasonable debate. But Engel's track record has been one that suggests him not being capable enough to be a starter. We'll see...

Edited September 6, 2017 by Two-Gun Pete

[he gone.]

Leury has done very well, but he does not have Engel's upside and he is not really a good defensive centerfielder.

Regarding Engel's arm. My understanding is that his arm is highly regarded. Here is what Future Sox had to say:

 

"Engel has true plus-plus speed, a strong arm and elite athleticism. He's gotten body comps to Mike Trout, and he's got enough strength that some scouts see latent power potential he's yet to tap into. Defensively, he's a true center fielder who tracks well, has the speed to cover a lot of ground and a very good arm, so that's already a foundation to work from."

 

I just think that if he could hit .250 with an OBP of .330 plus and hit 20 - 25 homers, he would be a terrific player, the way he plays centerfield.

 

I just think if Tyler Saladino could hit .270 with 25HR he would be a good fit. Same with Yolmer. You know who else impresses me in the minors? Eddy Alvarez.. if he could hit .250 with 25hrs he could be our next SS for 5-7 years.

 

 

I can't stand this board sometimes.

Adam Engel makes a nice catch and all of a sudden we go goo goo ga ga over him.

 

He's never hit more than 7 hr's in a season. He's not figuring it out now at 25 years old.

He should be happy he's in the Sox organization when they suck cause he wouldn't sniff the majors if he was on 25 other MLB orginizations. He should be happy that he can tell his grandkids he played in the MLB and that he accrued MLB time and is on the 40 man roster and gets a nice bump in AAA for a while. Other than that? Sorry. His biggest role EVER on a contending team should be in September to be a late inning defensive guy for like 1 inning total. Or running the bases. But in two years when we are hopefully good? He's 27. And guess what? You can find his speed elsewhere readily and you can find defense almost anywhere too.

 

 

Engel can be throw into the pile with almost everybody on this team ... thanks for being a warm body and playing mlb baseball for a year and a half.

[BamaDoc]

Except for a brief period in the AFL, Engel has unfortunately never shown a great hitting ability. Expecting him to figure it out or implement major changes at the MLB level is not likely. I thought people stated one of his problems was always changing his approach? He is most likely what he is which is a great defensive cf without a bat. In a rebuild, let him patrol center at AAA and see.

[southsider2k5]

I just think if Tyler Saladino could hit .270 with 25HR he would be a good fit. Same with Yolmer. You know who else impresses me in the minors? Eddy Alvarez.. if he could hit .250 with 25hrs he could be our next SS for 5-7 years.

 

 

I can't stand this board sometimes.

Adam Engel makes a nice catch and all of a sudden we go goo goo ga ga over him.

 

He's never hit more than 7 hr's in a season. He's not figuring it out now at 25 years old.

He should be happy he's in the Sox organization when they suck cause he wouldn't sniff the majors if he was on 25 other MLB orginizations. He should be happy that he can tell his grandkids he played in the MLB and that he accrued MLB time and is on the 40 man roster and gets a nice bump in AAA for a while. Other than that? Sorry. His biggest role EVER on a contending team should be in September to be a late inning defensive guy for like 1 inning total. Or running the bases. But in two years when we are hopefully good? He's 27. And guess what? You can find his speed elsewhere readily and you can find defense almost anywhere too.

 

 

Engel can be throw into the pile with almost everybody on this team ... thanks for being a warm body and playing mlb baseball for a year and a half.

 

I can't stand it when people say this... yet here you are.

[Harry Chappas]

I can't stand it when people say this... yet here you are.

 

 

Oddly Adam Engel is Brian Anderson reincarnate so cut the guy some slack.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Oddly Adam Engel is Brian Anderson reincarnate so cut the guy some slack.

 

You know, you are spot on with that comp too.

[Chisoxfn]

Right. And now that he has come around with the bat, he deserves a shot at the SS job. Anderson should not be annointed as the starting SS but should have to earn it. Let them both compete for the job next year.

Tim Anderson has put up a .723 OPS in the 2nd half of the season and is coming off a really strong 6 weeks. He also had a cup of coffee last year where he put up a near 3 WAR in

[bmags]

Just goes to show how much a legit plus tool like fielding will get you in terms of fan patience while still a project at the plate. Just being "passable" at a position like CF, such as May, gets you no where.

 

Adam's fall was disappointing. Glad he got a chance, but I don't think his constant tinkering will ever work.

[southsider2k5]

Tim Anderson has put up a .723 OPS in the 2nd half of the season and is coming off a really strong 6 weeks. He also had a cup of coffee last year where he put up a near 3 WAR in

 

At the very least Anderson goes into camp as the clear leader, with someone else needing to largely beat him out to change that.

[southsider2k5]

Just goes to show how much a legit plus tool like fielding will get you in terms of fan patience while still a project at the plate. Just being "passable" at a position like CF, such as May, gets you no where.

 

Adam's fall was disappointing. Glad he got a chance, but I don't think his constant tinkering will ever work.

 

The injuries in the second half really sucked, because Engel pretty much got put into a situation where he had to play every single day. There was no playing match ups to get him optimal exposure and to bring him along slowly. The kid has gotten one day off in the last month. Engel looked much better early on when Renteria had more options to play the match ups game a little bit easier with guys like Leury around.

[Jose Abreu]

I just think if Tyler Saladino could hit .270 with 25HR he would be a good fit. Same with Yolmer. You know who else impresses me in the minors? Eddy Alvarez.. if he could hit .250 with 25hrs he could be our next SS for 5-7 years.

 

 

I can't stand this board sometimes.

 

He's never hit more than 7 hr's in a season. He's not figuring it out now at 25 years old.

This is the biggest contradiction ever.

 

Saladino, Sanchez, and Alvarez have never hit more than 9 home runs in a season, yet they apparently have the potential to hit 25.

Engel has never hit more than 7 home runs in a season, yet he's the one out of the four that's apparently not going to figure it out and become a sudden home run hitter, despite being the youngest.

 

This was either a remarkably poorly informed post or a troll attempt.

Edited September 6, 2017 by Jose Abreu

[Harry Chappas]

Tim Anderson has put up a .723 OPS in the 2nd half of the season and is coming off a really strong 6 weeks. He also had a cup of coffee last year where he put up a near 3 WAR in

 

In this day and age of OBP Anderson will always have that glaring weakness along with his Jose Valentin defense.

 

I don't think you kick him to the curb but there are certainly issues to address.

 

Garcia can't seem to stay healthy either so that doesn't help.

 

 

[Chisoxfn]

In this day and age of OBP Anderson will always have that glaring weakness along with his Jose Valentin defense.

 

I don't think you kick him to the curb but there are certainly issues to address.

 

Garcia can't seem to stay healthy either so that doesn't help.

Jose Valentin made errors, but advanced defensive metrics loved him.

[Harry Chappas]

Jose Valentin made errors, but advanced defensive metrics loved him.

 

Everyone loved Jose.

[Jose Abreu]

I think he was trying to make a point that saying "If Adam Engel could only hit XYZ, he would be a really good player" is the same as saying if Saladino, Sanchez and Alvarez could just hit XYZ, they would be really good players."

 

I also see his point. I like what Engel has brought to the table for a very bad team in 2017, but he hasn't shown me much in terms of being any sort of impact player for when this team hopefully is ready to compete. He falls into the same group as Saladino, Sanchez, ect. of those role player guys that are really the 24th and 25th men on a good baseball team.

I see- couldn't tell if that's what he meant from the original post but it makes sense.

 

 

I agree there, he's nothing more than a late inning pinch runner/defensive sub, although I doubt we'd be able to utilize his speed on the basepaths.

[bmags]

TBH I think Yolmer is now a tier above Saladino/Engel. Saladino I think is just destroyed due to injuries.

 

Engel may survive more in the bigs just due to our lack of CF options.

[southsider2k5]

TBH I think Yolmer is now a tier above Saladino/Engel. Saladino I think is just destroyed due to injuries.

 

Engel may survive more in the bigs just due to our lack of CF options.

 

As of today, I would easily put Sanchez ahead of the other two as he can hit a respectable amount, and is a very good fielder all over the infield. Engel is a suspect until he can hit even a minimal amount. Sally has to prove he can stay healthy.

[Kyyle23]

And that's a major flaw of WAR. Leury has looked like a complete armature in CF while Engel has looked good. The metrics will tell you they've been equal and that couldn't be farther from the truth.

 

 

this made me laugh

 

ar·ma·ture

ˈärməˌCHər,ˈärməˌCHo͝or/

noun

noun: armature; plural noun: armatures

 

1.

the rotating coil or coils of a dynamo or electric motor.

any moving part of an electrical machine in which a voltage is induced by a magnetic field.

a piece of iron or other object acting as a keeper for a magnet.

2.

a metal framework on which a sculpture is molded with clay or similar material.

[bmags]

As of today, I would easily put Sanchez ahead of the other two as he can hit a respectable amount, and is a very good fielder all over the infield. Engel is a suspect until he can hit even a minimal amount. Sally has to prove he can stay healthy.

 

 

I find it kinda odd how much we heard about Sanchez' arm being a detriment to being a true utility player (playing SS), and yet I've been watching him throw ropes from 3rd base every game.

 

Sanchez playing all infield positions makes him absolutely bench player #1. He's too good and valuable to young pitchers.

 

Just spitballing (leaving C out as thats a bit different beast)

 

LF Cordell?

CF L Garcia

RF A Garcia

3b Davidson

SS Anderson

3b Yoan

1b Abreu

DH Delmonico

 

Next tier priority

Yolmer

Cordell

Gillaspie

 

Fight it out

W Garcia

Engel

Saladino

Hansen

Tilson (hahaha jk)

Peterson

Liriano

J Peter

 

If you are currently in that Fight It Out tier and in the big leagues, I'd just soak it in.

 

[Eminor3rd]

I would love Engel to be able to hit, even a minimal amount.

 

[southsider2k5]

I find it kinda odd how much we heard about Sanchez' arm being a detriment to being a true utility player (playing SS), and yet I've been watching him throw ropes from 3rd base every game.

 

Sanchez playing all infield positions makes him absolutely bench player #1. He's too good and valuable to young pitchers.

 

Just spitballing (leaving C out as thats a bit different beast)

 

LF Cordell?

CF L Garcia

RF A Garcia

3b Davidson

SS Anderson

3b Yoan

1b Abreu

DH Delmonico

 

Next tier priority

Yolmer

Cordell

Gillaspie

 

Fight it out

W Garcia

Engel

Saladino

Hansen

Tilson (hahaha jk)

Peterson

Liriano

J Peter

 

If you are currently in that Fight It Out tier and in the big leagues, I'd just soak it in.

 

 

This one is dead.

[Kyyle23]

This one is dead.

 

[he gone.]

This is the biggest contradiction ever.

 

Saladino, Sanchez, and Alvarez have never hit more than 9 home runs in a season, yet they apparently have the potential to hit 25.

Engel has never hit more than 7 home runs in a season, yet he's the one out of the four that's apparently not going to figure it out and become a sudden home run hitter, despite being the youngest.

 

This was either a remarkably poorly informed post or a troll attempt.

 

 

To clarify - yes. That was all sarcasm - I thought I laid it on thick so I didn't use the green font. I love defense as much as anybody and I'd love a Saladino or Engel on my team in a playoff run but they just never will be good enough offensively to make up for it.

 

Also to clarify - someone said they hate when people say they hate the board sometimes. I really don't care. I'm allowed to roll my eyes when people suggest that Engel, who has 28 CAREER homeruns (OVER 5 SEASONS) in the minors is going to suddenly hit 25 a year in the majors. I like this board when I can discuss prospects and the future in a civilized, realistic manner. But I feel like a lot of times the board is just a bunch of topics about _________ hot streak and can they be a piece in our 2019 run to the playoffs?

 

Kevan Smith, Engel, Delmonico, Yolmer, Saladino, etc. etc.

 

None of them will be contributing members yet there have been discussions dedicated to each of these players. (And yes, I know I can be over-reactive the other way. I dismiss all these guys. I have softened on Delmonico as a contributing member in the future -- but only as a bench player at best IMO

Edited September 6, 2017 by BrianAnderson

[OmarComing25]

To clarify - yes. That was all sarcasm - I thought I laid it on thick so I didn't use the green font. I love defense as much as anybody and I'd love a Saladino or Engel on my team in a playoff run but they just never will be good enough offensively to make up for it.

 

Also to clarify - someone said they hate when people say they hate the board sometimes. I really don't care. I'm allowed to roll my eyes when people suggest that Engel, who has 28 CAREER homeruns (OVER 5 SEASONS) in the minors is going to suddenly hit 25 a year in the majors. I like this board when I can discuss prospects and the future in a civilized, realistic manner. But I feel like a lot of times the board is just a bunch of topics about _________ hot streak and can they be a piece in our 2019 run to the playoffs?

 

Kevan Smith, Engel, Delmonico, Yolmer, Saladino, etc. etc.

 

None of them will be contributing members yet there have been discussions dedicated to each of these players. (And yes, I know I can be over-reactive the other way. I dismiss all these guys. I have softened on Delmonico as a contributing member in the future -- but only as a bench player at best IMO

It's not like there's a whole lot of other White Sox-related stuff to talk about right now though, so of course these types of discussions are going to pop up. The part we're in now is the most boring part of the rebuild. There's no one left to trade, and most of the guys who will be future contributors are in the minors. What kind of discussions are you expecting?