Adam Engel

[greg775]

Back to the topic of this thread; In a previous post, I whimsically dreamed of what a terrific player he'd be, if he could hit even .250, with an OBP

of .330, or better and hit 20 - 25 homers. After watching all of the Youtube videos of some of his catches, from his college days to the present, I'm willing to lower my expectations for his offense. Even if he hit .230 with an OBP of .300 and 15 homers, it would be worth it to keep him in CF.

Add in a few doubles and stolen bases and he would be productive enough to bat 9TH, while playing Gold Glove defense.

 

I've always embraced the old baseball adage, which calls for strength up the middle. Give me great defense behind the plate, at the keystone combo and centerfield, with great pitching. Let the offense come from the corners. This team is going to have productive offense from 2ND, with Moncada and maybe from SS, if Anderson can get back on track. The Sox might even have productive offense from their receivers, if Collins pans out. Why not give Engel a chance to round out his game a little, at least until Robert is ready?

Is Engel potentially as good a hitter as Ken Berry?

[southsider2k5]

Is Engel potentially as good a hitter as Ken Berry?

 

I think at this point his comp is more like Strawberry Shortcake as a hitter.

[Lillian]

Is Engel potentially as good a hitter as Ken Berry?

 

Yes, he is probably as good of a hitter as Ken Berry was, but with more power and speed.

Berry was a career .255 hitter, with an OBP of .308. However, his first 500 at bats were about like Engel's, so far.

Berry was a great defensive centerfielder, but he was not as fast, so he had less range than Adam does. He was not quite as athletic as Engel, either. Although Berry brought back his share of balls headed for the bullpen, in old Comiskey Park, I'm not sure that he could have made some of those leaping and diving plays that Adam has made.

 

The question is; can a Gold Glove caliber centerfielder, with below average offensive skills, still play on a contending team, in today's game of baseball? Perhaps not, but I could live with it. There are 8 other guys in the lineup. Let them produce the runs, while your Gold Glover saves them.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Lillian

[knightni]

I think at this point his comp is more like Strawberry Shortcake as a hitter.

Come on...

 

You know that she hits better than Engel on the Berry Bitty Softball team.

[BlackSox13]

I knew Ken Berry could sing, dance and act but didn't know he could play CF too. Ha, pretty cool! Anyways...

 

Two reasons for taking the wait and see approach with Engel. 1) Brian Anderson 2) Trayce Thompson.

 

It doesn't really matter because once Tito Polo arrives we won't remember what an Adam Engel was.

[Lillian]

Our Ken Berry, didn't sing and dance, but he won a couple of Gold Gloves and even made the 1967 All Star team, despite batting just .241 and collecting only 25 XBH, the entire season.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I knew Ken Berry could sing, dance and act but didn't know he could play CF too. Ha, pretty cool! Anyways...

 

Two reasons for taking the wait and see approach with Engel. 1) Brian Anderson 2) Trayce Thompson.

 

It doesn't really matter because once Tito Polo arrives we won't remember what an Adam Engel was.

I'd say your Berry joke was lost on most of the audience. The former F-Troop star , Mayberry RFD and the Carol Burnett spinoff Mama's Family star was hardly a household name. The Sox Ken Berry might be slightly more well know on a Sox forum but he played so long ago. I know the old timers here remember the "Bandit" . That nickname derived from robbing HR's .

 

The baseball Berry was a technical consultant and also made a cameo in the baseball movie of the 1919 White Sox , Eight Men Out.

I always put in my 2 cents about him because he along with Joel Horlen were my boyhood favorite Sox players.

 

If anyone ever thought the actor and ball player were one and the same you wouldn't be alone as crazy as that sounds. http://www.fangraphs.com/tht/card-corner-1...ry-and-f-troop/

[GreenSox]

Our Ken Berry, didn't sing and dance, but he won a couple of Gold Gloves and even made the 1967 All Star team, despite batting just .241 and collecting only 25 XBH, the entire season.

And was then moved to the Angels in one of Rollie Hemond's earliest and best trades.

[BlackSox13]

I'd say your Berry joke was lost on most of the audience. The former F-Troop star , Mayberry RFD and the Carol Burnett spinoff Mama's Family star was hardly a household name. The Sox Ken Berry might be slightly more well know on a Sox forum but he played so long ago. I know the old timers here remember the "Bandit" . That nickname derived from robbing HR's .

 

The baseball Berry was a technical consultant and also made a cameo in the baseball movie of the 1919 White Sox , Eight Men Out.

I always put in my 2 cents about him because he along with Joel Horlen were my boyhood favorite Sox players.

 

If anyone ever thought the actor and ball player were one and the same you wouldn't be alone as crazy as that sounds. http://www.fangraphs.com/tht/card-corner-1...ry-and-f-troop/

Yeah, I just threw that out there for s***s and giggles. Read the name and all the shows you named came to mind. No surprise you picked up on it.

 

I'm fine with Engel in CF. Let him play until he shows the job is his or until someone takes it from him. I don't think Engel has a serious threat for CF until Polo comes in the picture mid summer next year. Tilson, May, Leury aren't going to push Engel out of CF so Engel has his opportunity. Let's see what he does with it.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Yeah, I just threw that out there for s***s and giggles. Read the name and all the shows you named came to mind. No surprise you picked up on it.

 

I'm fine with Engel in CF. Let him play until he shows the job is his or until someone takes it from him. I don't think Engel has a serious threat for CF until Polo comes in the picture mid summer next year. Tilson, May, Leury aren't going to push Engel out of CF so Engel has his opportunity. Let's see what he does with it.

I'm actually surprised so many would rather see Engel in CF over Leury. I am a huge fan of great defense especially in CF but now Leury has the better bat and certainly has the speed to play the position well if not the fundamentals . I was pining for Jackie Bradley and Buxton for a long time. I'm happy Engel is getting a shot and all but he needs to show something with the bat soon. Next year the Sox OF will be pretty crowded

 

Avi got plenty of opportunities. He was Mr. 9 lives but he was under 25 years old . It's easier to wait on a much younger player . Engel will be 26 at the beginning of spring training for the 2018 season.

[Balta1701]

I'm actually surprised so many would rather see Engel in CF over Leury. I am a huge fan of great defense especially in CF but now Leury has the better bat and certainly has the speed to play the position well if not the fundamentals . I was pining for Jackie Bradley and Buxton for a long time. I'm happy Engel is getting a shot and all but he needs to show something with the bat soon. Next year the Sox OF will be pretty crowded

 

Avi got plenty of opportunities. He was Mr. 9 lives but he was under 25 years old . It's easier to wait on a much younger player . Engel will be 26 at the beginning of spring training for the 2018 season.

It's much easier to wait on a player when your team isn't competing and knows that at the start of the previous offseason than when you insist the player will be the #5 hitter on a contending team and build your entire team around that assumption.

 

In his first 331 big league PAs, Leury put up a .462 OPS. He has the better bat - now, because he was given a chance in the big leagues over 4 seasons. He's also 26, interestingly enough.

[Dick Allen]

They will have an entire season of playing next year, and will make the decisions themselves. There will be plenty of ABs to go around, and the suspects are all pretty much of the age it's either produce or find another job.

[BlackSox13]

I'm actually surprised so many would rather see Engel in CF over Leury. I am a huge fan of great defense especially in CF but now Leury has the better bat and certainly has the speed to play the position well if not the fundamentals . I was pining for Jackie Bradley and Buxton for a long time. I'm happy Engel is getting a shot and all but he needs to show something with the bat soon. Next year the Sox OF will be pretty crowded

 

Avi got plenty of opportunities. He was Mr. 9 lives but he was under 25 years old . It's easier to wait on a much younger player . Engel will be 26 at the beginning of spring training for the 2018 season.

I see Leury in the same way as Engel. For the time being, CF is Engel's to lose and LF is Leury's to lose. It's up to the rest of the 3A and 4A outfielders to take those spots from Adam and Leury next year. I purposely left out RF because we all know who ends up there. I do see a way where Engel and Leury might have to fight for the CF spot in ST.

 

Ryan Cordell. He has all winter to get healthy and prepare for ST. Based on how there's usually a surprise or two, I'm thinking a healthy Ryan Cordell comes out and takes the LF spot and forces Leury to compete with Engel for CF. Not that Cordell is expected to become anything special, it's just that I don't see any of these guys, Liriano/Tilson/May/Willy G/etc, being anythng special either. Before his injury, Cordell had some nice power numbers at AAA.

 

I think that for now, Engel is safe. ST wil be fun next year and especially if the Sox trade Avi. The outfield is going to be a battle royale.

[Balta1701]

I see Leury in the same way as Engel. For the time being, CF is Engel's to lose and LF is Leury's to lose. It's up to the rest of the 3A and 4A outfielders to take those spots from Adam and Leury next year. I purposely left out RF because we all know who ends up there. I do see a way where Engel and Leury might have to fight for the CF spot in ST.

 

Ryan Cordell. He has all winter to get healthy and prepare for ST. Based on how there's usually a surprise or two, I'm thinking a healthy Ryan Cordell comes out and takes the LF spot and forces Leury to compete with Engel for CF. Not that Cordell is expected to become anything special, it's just that I don't see any of these guys, Liriano/Tilson/May/Willy G/etc, being anythng special either. Before his injury, Cordell had some nice power numbers at AAA.

 

I think that for now, Engel is safe. ST wil be fun next year and especially if the Sox trade Avi. The outfield is going to be a battle royale.

I'm fascinated by the fact that this was all written without any mention of Delmonico.

[BlackSox13]

I'm fascinated by the fact that this was all written without any mention of Delmonico.

Yeah, my bad. Yesterday I posted how I think Delmonico becomes the DH, which is why I left him out of the discussion.

[ChiSox59]

I'm fascinated by the fact that this was all written without any mention of Delmonico.

 

My guess is the Sox value defense a bit more next season than they did this year. That means Delmonico DHs most of the time next year. The thing about that is then what about Davidson? Pretty clear to me that the Sox don't love Davidson at 3B, or he'd be getting more time over there in what are basically meaningless games. 3B has pretty much been Yolmer's over the past month, including since Davidson got off the DL. Maybe some of that has to with with Davidson's injury.

 

My current opening day lineup projection:

 

C: Narvaez / Smith

1B: Abreu

2B: Moncada

SS: Anderson

3B: Davidson / Yolmer

LF: Cordell

CF: Engel

RF: Avi

DH: Delmonico / Davidson

 

BN: Leury Garcia (supersub: gets 5 or so starts per week across CF, LF, 2B, SS and 3B), Smith/Narvaez, Yolmer and Willy Garcia or Rymer Liriano

 

Staff: Rodon, Giolito, Lopez, Shields and Guerrero (or scrapheap FA like Chatwood)

 

Pen: Jones, Minaya, Bummer, Goldberg, Danish, Fry and Connor Walsh or Brian Clark

[Jose Abreu]

Ryan Cordell. He has all winter to get healthy and prepare for ST. Based on how there's usually a surprise or two, I'm thinking a healthy Ryan Cordell comes out and takes the LF spot and forces Leury to compete with Engel for CF. Not that Cordell is expected to become anything special, it's just that I don't see any of these guys, Liriano/Tilson/May/Willy G/etc, being anythng special either. Before his injury, Cordell had some nice power numbers at AAA.

 

I think that for now, Engel is safe. ST wil be fun next year and especially if the Sox trade Avi. The outfield is going to be a battle royale.

What if I told you that Willy's OPS is 19 points better than Leury's?

 

SSS, sure, but he has promise and seems to be able to handle MLB pitching.

[southsider2k5]

I'm actually surprised so many would rather see Engel in CF over Leury. I am a huge fan of great defense especially in CF but now Leury has the better bat and certainly has the speed to play the position well if not the fundamentals . I was pining for Jackie Bradley and Buxton for a long time. I'm happy Engel is getting a shot and all but he needs to show something with the bat soon. Next year the Sox OF will be pretty crowded

 

Avi got plenty of opportunities. He was Mr. 9 lives but he was under 25 years old . It's easier to wait on a much younger player . Engel will be 26 at the beginning of spring training for the 2018 season.

 

First I don't think anyone is parti, ularly excited about any of our CF's as whole until you get down to Luis Robert, maybe Rutherford if you think he can stay there... Other than that we have a pile of perfectly imperfect players to run out there. With the way the roster looks to be built going forward probably including some pretty defensively questionable players in LF, RF, 2B, SS and 3B at least, the whole reason I want Engel to have a chance at succeed in CF is because he is by far the best defensive CF we have with a chance at playing next year.

[Balta1701]

Yeah, my bad. Yesterday I posted how I think Delmonico becomes the DH, which is why I left him out of the discussion.

Guessing here - we'll see some OBP improvement from Davidson next year and some defensive improvement from Delmonico. How that will shake out in the end? Dunno.

[BlackSox13]

What if I told you that Willy's OPS is 19 points better than Leury's?

 

SSS, sure, but he has promise and seems to be able to handle MLB pitching.

Not enough to deter me from taking Leury over Willy and I do like Willy. I prefer Leary's defense/speed and lead off potential vs Willy's arm and power. Willy would be a perfect fit for RF if Avi is traded. At least until Eloy is ready.

[BlackSox13]

Guessing here - we'll see some OBP improvement from Davidson next year and some defensive improvement from Delmonico. How that will shake out in the end? Dunno.

Hmm. Dunno is the right answer at this point. However, if Hahn is successful in trading Abreu this winter, the picture becomes clearer. Then it's a matter of which DH's and which plays 1B. Early guess would be Davidson at 1B and Delmonico DH's. This allows them to use Sanchez at 3B for his defense.

[chitownsportsfan]

Hmm. Dunno is the right answer at this point. However, if Hahn is successful in trading Abreu this winter, the picture becomes clearer. Then it's a matter of which DH's and which plays 1B. Early guess would be Davidson at 1B and Delmonico DH's. This allows them to use Sanchez at 3B for his defense.

 

Trading Jose in any way to "make room" for Delmonico and Davidson would be a very stupid move. If the right deal is there sure, make it. You don't even consider Delmonico or Davidson's playing time in the equation. For a guy that is essentially bad Adam Dunn, Davidson gets way too much f***ing love here.

 

Cool, he hits HR. He's also a butcher in the field and has an .280 OBP. There is more to baseball than HR.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

It's much easier to wait on a player when your team isn't competing and knows that at the start of the previous offseason than when you insist the player will be the #5 hitter on a contending team and build your entire team around that assumption.

 

In his first 331 big league PAs, Leury put up a .462 OPS. He has the better bat - now, because he was given a chance in the big leagues over 4 seasons. He's also 26, interestingly enough.

Leury put together a good season in the minors last year. Not sure Engel has as recent of a good showing . That season for Leury stood out Then it showed this year in the bigs whatever he found was sticking around. I love Engels D but he just has no pedigree anywhere of being a good hitter. Wasn't an outstanding college player, wasn't drafted high, no outstanding minor league seasons. I am not predicting he will never make it . It's pretty long odds is all. Leury is 26 but as you said he was given chances before he was 25. Engel will not get 4 seasons over the age of 25 I think he has less chances next year. Sox have to start weeding guys out especially when they run out of options.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

First I don't think anyone is parti, ularly excited about any of our CF's as whole until you get down to Luis Robert, maybe Rutherford if you think he can stay there... Other than that we have a pile of perfectly imperfect players to run out there. With the way the roster looks to be built going forward probably including some pretty defensively questionable players in LF, RF, 2B, SS and 3B at least, the whole reason I want Engel to have a chance at succeed in CF is because he is by far the best defensive CF we have with a chance at playing next year.

Yep Sox got a whole lot of nothing in CF for sure. No one stands out in any way except Engel with his glove. So many guys coming and going due to injuries and multitude of candidates. Someone needs to grab the bull by the horns. I just like Leury as the better option in CF because he comes closest to being above competent with both glove and hitting. Don't see him as a corner OF because LF is probably the safest place to put a big bat with questionable defense. Don't like OF's that have only a little power over 3 positions. Somebody out there has to produce 25-30 HR's.

[bmags]

I just have no confidence that even if Engel finds an approach that works that he doesn't tinker himself out of it immediately.

 

He came upa nd was hitting fine with his hands up, and he was different 2 weeks later and ever since every iteration he's been bad. Now his hands are back up and he hit a homer. a week from now he'll be in some weird crouch.