2017-2018 MLB player movement rumors and reports

[Dam8610]

If the market had not come to them right when it did, would the prospects they kept have been worth the 2017 world series title?

 

It's hard to say what the marginal value difference would've been between trading for Verlander then versus, say, meeting the White Sox ask for Q in January. What I do know is, as another poster said, theirs is the model I'd prefer the White Sox front office to follow when it comes time to acquire talent. Rick Hahn has shown admirable patience in getting other teams to meet his asking price for the players he's traded away, so I'd hope he doesn't throw all the surplus value he's worked very hard to build trying to get that final piece that may or may not make it work. Of course if it works it's worth it, but the Astros didn't know they would win it all when they traded for Verlander.

[Balta1701]

It's hard to say what the marginal value difference would've been between trading for Verlander then versus, say, meeting the White Sox ask for Q in January. What I do know is, as another poster said, theirs is the model I'd prefer the White Sox front office to follow when it comes time to acquire talent. Rick Hahn has shown admirable patience in getting other teams to meet his asking price for the players he's traded away, so I'd hope he doesn't throw all the surplus value he's worked very hard to build trying to get that final piece that may or may not make it work. Of course if it works it's worth it, but the Astros didn't know they would win it all when they traded for Verlander.

I remain the exact opposite, I think that it is extremely uncommon for pitchers like Verlander to become available at the waiver deadline. Yes, there are always expensive pitchers available at that point, but not genuine all stars.

 

When I make this point I'm thinking of something like this happening in 2019 - the White Sox sign Machado and suddenly they're way better than anyone expected, on pace for 90-some wins, but with a huge weakness in lets say center field. Let's say that Yelich is still available then, but the price is extremely steep like "top pitching prospect in baseball Dylan Cease". You've got 2 choices - hold onto the prospect or go for the win. I've been circling 2020 all offseason as the year we're going to destroy the league, but if we're there in 2019 and we need one high priced piece to put us over the top, I'd make a deal of that sort. Maybe you could find a cheaper option, but I'd say you "MUST" fill that hole, and I found the moves the Astros made pre-Verlander to be totally lacking. Hell, Gonzalez from the White Sox would have been an upgrade for them at the trade deadline with where their rotation was sitting and they didn't even do that. They needed help desperately and didn't do it until the very last possible second.

 

The danger in not making the move is illustrated by a number of teams recently. I'll take the Mets as one of my favorite comps because we're looking to have the kind of starting rotation in 2 years that took them to the World Series. In 2015 they had a dominant starting rotation, but they needed offense. They traded Fulmer to Detroit for Cespedes and it put them within a couple of baserunning moves of possibly bringing home a trophy.

 

The Mets could easily have said "look at how dominant our rotation is, we should hold onto our prospects and play for 2016". Yes, they'd like to have Fulmer back right now, he's been strong in Detroit. But if they had said "let's wait, 2015 isn't that important and our rotaiton is only going to get better" - they'd have been completely wrong. Their vaunted starting rotation has since completely collapsed. They paid a high price, took their shot, and got almost there. I'd much rather do that if things came together in 2019 than hold onto everyone and assume nothing will go bad in the future.

[Dam8610]

I remain the exact opposite, I think that it is extremely uncommon for pitchers like Verlander to become available at the waiver deadline. Yes, there are always expensive pitchers available at that point, but not genuine all stars.

 

When I make this point I'm thinking of something like this happening in 2019 - the White Sox sign Machado and suddenly they're way better than anyone expected, on pace for 90-some wins, but with a huge weakness in lets say center field. Let's say that Yelich is still available then, but the price is extremely steep like "top pitching prospect in baseball Dylan Cease". You've got 2 choices - hold onto the prospect or go for the win. I've been circling 2020 all offseason as the year we're going to destroy the league, but if we're there in 2019 and we need one high priced piece to put us over the top, I'd make a deal of that sort. Maybe you could find a cheaper option, but I'd say you "MUST" fill that hole, and I found the moves the Astros made pre-Verlander to be totally lacking. Hell, Gonzalez from the White Sox would have been an upgrade for them at the trade deadline with where their rotation was sitting and they didn't even do that. They needed help desperately and didn't do it until the very last possible second.

 

The danger in not making the move is illustrated by a number of teams recently. I'll take the Mets as one of my favorite comps because we're looking to have the kind of starting rotation in 2 years that took them to the World Series. In 2015 they had a dominant starting rotation, but they needed offense. They traded Fulmer to Detroit for Cespedes and it put them within a couple of baserunning moves of possibly bringing home a trophy.

 

The Mets could easily have said "look at how dominant our rotation is, we should hold onto our prospects and play for 2016". Yes, they'd like to have Fulmer back right now, he's been strong in Detroit. But if they had said "let's wait, 2015 isn't that important and our rotaiton is only going to get better" - they'd have been completely wrong. Their vaunted starting rotation has since completely collapsed. They paid a high price, took their shot, and got almost there. I'd much rather do that if things came together in 2019 than hold onto everyone and assume nothing will go bad in the future.

 

You absolutely have to know when the right time to strike is, but you could find anecdotal examples of this in every imaginable permutation over and over again throughout baseball history I'm sure. My point is the White Sox tried being impatient and "going for it" every year for about a decade with little to no success. Hahn then implemented a strategy of being patient and forcing teams to come to his price for his players, and in less than a year it took the White Sox from one of the worst farm systems in baseball to arguably the best for two years running. This wasn't accomplished by being impatient and taking the first offer on everyone who had value to get them out of town. It was accomplished by waiting and forcing other teams to come up to the price desired. Similarly, the Astros did gamble, but their gamble was smart. Essentially, it was "some team will get desperate and want to move a player we need for something of value at some point, and the price will come down to the level we find acceptable". Sure, it was a bit risky and could've cost them the 2017 World Series, but with the talent they have, they have a very long competitive window (unless something unforeseeable like injuries takes it away), so missing 1 of 10 or so shots may not have been a big deal to them. I'd prefer this rebuild to be the launch point for a prolonged period of sustained success, and I think the way to achieve that will be the same way the White Sox so quickly went from the outhouse to the penthouse of farm systems. Be patient, wait for a desperate team to match your need, and strike when the other team meets your price. Becoming the desperate team and overpaying for a present need depletes the surplus value that the team has worked very hard to build and will eventually lead to being back in the rebuilding process. Now, if the scenario you describe happens, I'd take that risk as well, but for me it's because I don't see Cease becoming that successful (even if the prognosticators are calling him the top pitching prospect in baseball) and even if he is, there's probably not a rotation spot for him here. Also, it's a 1 for 1 deal, which means that the Marlins were likely desperate and the White Sox will get good value from the deal. I'm not advocating never dealing prospects, I just want the team to go about it in the same way that has found them success recently, as well as other franchises like the Astros. Be patient, make teams meet your price, and strike when the time is right.

[Dick Allen]

You absolutely have to know when the right time to strike is, but you could find anecdotal examples of this in every imaginable permutation over and over again throughout baseball history I'm sure. My point is the White Sox tried being impatient and "going for it" every year for about a decade with little to no success. Hahn then implemented a strategy of being patient and forcing teams to come to his price for his players, and in less than a year it took the White Sox from one of the worst farm systems in baseball to arguably the best for two years running. This wasn't accomplished by being impatient and taking the first offer on everyone who had value to get them out of town. It was accomplished by waiting and forcing other teams to come up to the price desired. Similarly, the Astros did gamble, but their gamble was smart. Essentially, it was "some team will get desperate and want to move a player we need for something of value at some point, and the price will come down to the level we find acceptable". Sure, it was a bit risky and could've cost them the 2017 World Series, but with the talent they have, they have a very long competitive window (unless something unforeseeable like injuries takes it away), so missing 1 of 10 or so shots may not have been a big deal to them. I'd prefer this rebuild to be the launch point for a prolonged period of sustained success, and I think the way to achieve that will be the same way the White Sox so quickly went from the outhouse to the penthouse of farm systems. Be patient, wait for a desperate team to match your need, and strike when the other team meets your price. Becoming the desperate team and overpaying for a present need depletes the surplus value that the team has worked very hard to build and will eventually lead to being back in the rebuilding process. Now, if the scenario you describe happens, I'd take that risk as well, but for me it's because I don't see Cease becoming that successful (even if the prognosticators are calling him the top pitching prospect in baseball) and even if he is, there's probably not a rotation spot for him here. Also, it's a 1 for 1 deal, which means that the Marlins were likely desperate and the White Sox will get good value from the deal. I'm not advocating never dealing prospects, I just want the team to go about it in the same way that has found them success recently, as well as other franchises like the Astros. Be patient, make teams meet your price, and strike when the time is right.

Patience this offseason is going to screw a lot of players. It is unbelievable how slow the market has been, and it does seem while some guys will get paid, several are going to have it cost them. And wait until next year when Boras keeps Harper out there forever, which should probably keep Machado out there forever, which means a lot of guys will probably be just about at spring training before they know where they will play.

[southsider2k5]

Ken Rosenthal‏Verified account @Ken_Rosenthal 2h2 hours ago #Marlins’ Starlin Castro wants to be traded, sources tell The Athletic. Does not want to be part of another rebuilding process the way he was with the #Cubs.

 

 

[Balta1701]

Patience this offseason is going to screw a lot of players. It is unbelievable how slow the market has been, and it does seem while some guys will get paid, several are going to have it cost them. And wait until next year when Boras keeps Harper out there forever, which should probably keep Machado out there forever, which means a lot of guys will probably be just about at spring training before they know where they will play.

Interestingly, if you're a team that's close and you have some money to spend (Colorado? Arizona? Minnesota? Texas?) there might be enough affordable players available on the FA market at the end of this month to push you over the top and into the AL/NLCS next year. IIRC Cleveland did something like that a few years ago, their 2013? ish playoff appearance was all because they spent money on guys like Swisher and Michael Bourn at the end of the offseason to supplement the remainder of their big league squad. The contracts weren't great at the end, but they got a playoff appearance out of it.

[BlackSox13]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/01/blue...rbitration.html

 

. The Blue Jays and third baseman Josh Donaldson have avoided an arbitration hearing by agreeing to a $23MM salary for the 2018 season

 

 

[BlackSox13]

After Donaldson agreed on 23M for the final year of his arbitration, now Machado and the Orioles are going to go to arbitration. Smart move by Machado. Manny was projected for 17.3M but that number will be going up for sure.

[Balta1701]

If anyone sees what Bryant signed for please post it - genuinely curious if he topped what Ryan Howard got in his first arb year.

[Eminor3rd]

If anyone sees what Bryant signed for please post it - genuinely curious if he topped what Ryan Howard got in his first arb year.

 

$10.85mm; new record.

[Balta1701]

$10.85mm; new record.

Thanks. Presumably this sets the standard for Seager next year and Moncada/Bellinger in a few years as being around $11 mil.

[LittleHurt05]

Thanks. Presumably this sets the standard for Seager next year and Moncada/Bellinger in a few years as being around $11 mil.

 

If Moncada plays well enough to earn $11 million, that would be outstanding.

[BlackSox13]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/01/twin...dison-reed.html

 

Twinkies and Addison Reed agree for 2/16.75M. Nice deal for the Twinkies.

[Balta1701]

Ricketts: "IF Sammy Sosa wants to be welcomed back to the Cubs he needs to be honest with us about PEDs"

[fathom]

Ricketts: "IF Sammy Sosa wants to be welcomed back to the Cubs he needs to be honest with us about PEDs"

 

Yet that horrible person had no problem hiring Manny

[fathom]

What an awful haul for Pirates

[Balta1701]

What an awful haul for Pirates

after 2 disappointing seasons for Cole, it seems unsurprising. If he had been a strong pitcher the last 2 years, the Pirates probably wouldn't have been trading him because they'd have been much more competitive.

[wrathofhahn]

after 2 disappointing seasons for Cole, it seems unsurprising. If he had been a strong pitcher the last 2 years, the Pirates probably wouldn't have been trading him because they'd have been much more competitive.

 

I don't understand why they didn't just hold onto him.

 

Hard to see them getting a worse offer at the deadline. Only real upside to this deal is it f Boras over badly

 

Astros actually had money to spend but they are basically saying we'd rather swing a trade then do an Arrietta deal.

Edited January 14, 2018 by wrathofhahn

[GreenSox]

Astros actually had money to spend but they are basically saying we'd rather swing a trade then do an Arrietta deal.

This is a much better move than spending $100 million on Arrietta.

But an org. needs real depth to pull it off - Astros have it.

[Bob Sacamano]

I don't understand why they didn't just hold onto him.

 

Hard to see them getting a worse offer at the deadline. Only real upside to this deal is it f Boras over badly

 

Astros actually had money to spend but they are basically saying we'd rather swing a trade then do an Arrietta deal.

 

Hold onto him only for Cole to get hurt yet again?

[wrathofhahn]

Hold onto him only for Cole to get hurt yet again?

 

If the return was good sure why take the risk but if it's terrible as the Pitts got what they really losing the chance to make a bad trade? If he gets injured they can still make a bad deal next year assuming his arm doesn't fall off or he needs TJ.

 

He was under control for two years. You can't GM scared what may happen. We took a risk with Q and it paid off teams ALWAYS need pitching at the deadline.

[southsider2k5]

Ricketts: "IF Sammy Sosa wants to be welcomed back to the Cubs he needs to be honest with us about PEDs"

 

Why not the same standard for the two white pitchers who had all of the tendon, ligament, and muscle injuries indicative of steroid use?

[southsider2k5]

MLB Trade Rumors‏ @mlbtraderumors 1h1 hour ago Curtis Granderson is back in the AL East, joining the #BlueJays on a one-year deal: https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/01/blue-jays-sign-curtis-granderson.html …://https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018...anderson.html …

 

 

[Dick Allen]

Why not the same standard for the two white pitchers who had all of the tendon, ligament, and muscle injuries indicative of steroid use?

Look the other way, the only Cub who ever juiced is Sammy. The other sick thing about it was it was totally ignored until he couldn't put up Little League HR totals anymore.

[LittleHurt05]

Yet that horrible person had no problem hiring Manny

 

Or Aroldis Chapman.

 

The weird thing about the Sammy stuff is that Ricketts seems to be the only one who gives a s***. And he didn't even own the team then. The fans want him back, nobody feels betrayed by any steroid use. Say what you want, but those were fun times while it was going on and those guys were just clobbering baseballs. There's nothing for him to apologize for, just a weird grudge Ricketts is holding onto.