What do you take from the 2017 season?

[Soxfest]

My biggest take from 2017 is they finally picked a lane, it was very much needed.

[chitownsportsfan]

He has had a similar stretch each of the 3 seasons he's been in the big leagues though. 2015 over his last 8 starts, 1.91 ERA. 2016 7 start stretch at the beginning of August - 1.85 ERA.

 

To me he's still basically the same pitcher he came up as. When his "Stuff" is working he's absolutely dominant, but no pitcher ever maintains their fastball and slider through the entire season. Rodon gets into month-ish grooves when he has good control of both of them and maybe even the change tags along those games, but those stretches come when he's overpowering with stuff. No one can possibly say that pre-injury Rodon didn't have dominant stuff, he has as good of a slider as anyone in the game and a mid 90s fastball. He just doesn't have any way to win games on days when he doesn't have his dominating stuff.

 

Not to derail but I agree 100% with this. I've just been disappointed in general with Rodon. Hopefully part of that was the discomfort he had in the shoulder.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

Not to derail but I agree 100% with this. I've just been disappointed in general with Rodon. Hopefully part of that was the discomfort he had in the shoulder.

 

Totally agree. He has been a disappointment with little to no improvement since his rookie year. After this injury (he is injury prone) I wonder if it is best to try him out at closer and see if he can become a dominant closer or setup man (andrew miller type). I think that's how we max out his value from here on out.

[southsider2k5]

Carlos Rodon has a career total of 55 2/3 IP in the minor leagues, including the 13+ he pitched down there this year. The fact that he has struggle with consistency is only a surprise in that it hasn't been MORE often, not how often it has happened.

[Bob Sacamano]

How could ANYBODY enjoy one iota of Holland, Pelphrey, Shields, those relievers. Insulting to me as a fan. I listed many positives in my post BTW. That doesn't change the fact it was a horrible, embarassingly bad season, one of the worst I've had as a Sox fan, simply because I couldn't watch so many games cause of the rotten players dotting the roster.

 

I enjoyed this season 100× more than the previous seasons of "going for it" and sucking.

[chitownsportsfan]

Carlos Rodon has a career total of 55 2/3 IP in the minor leagues, including the 13+ he pitched down there this year. The fact that he has struggle with consistency is only a surprise in that it hasn't been MORE often, not how often it has happened.

 

That was a fair point coming into this year but not after he only managed 69.1 innings with a FIP of 4.69. For whatever reason he struggled when he came back this year. I'm guessing his arm never felt right. I'm willing to give him a pass for the performance but not because of lack of development time in the minors. He had over 300 innings of MLB experience coming into this year. He should not be walking over 4 guys per 9 innings at this point.

[southsider2k5]

That was a fair point coming into this year but not after he only managed 69.1 innings with a FIP of 4.69. For whatever reason he struggled when he came back this year. I'm guessing his arm never felt right. I'm willing to give him a pass for the performance but not because of lack of development time in the minors. He had over 300 innings of MLB experience coming into this year. He should not be walking over 4 guys per 9 innings at this point.

 

This year probably had to do more with zero spring training and 13 IP before going to the big club. That is a fraction of normal.

[Rowand44]

It seemed Rodon started to get his s*** together after he got passed the Spring Training portion of his season this year. I think next year he'd really take a leap forward if he's not broken. Unfortunately that's a big if at this point.

[southsider2k5]

That was a fair point coming into this year but not after he only managed 69.1 innings with a FIP of 4.69. For whatever reason he struggled when he came back this year. I'm guessing his arm never felt right. I'm willing to give him a pass for the performance but not because of lack of development time in the minors. He had over 300 innings of MLB experience coming into this year. He should not be walking over 4 guys per 9 innings at this point.

 

300 innings isn't really even a lot of minor league experience if you think about it. The kid is still learning on the job.

[chitownsportsfan]

300 innings isn't really even a lot of minor league experience if you think about it. The kid is still learning on the job.

 

Some of if it unrealistic expectations, which the Sox themselves helped create. When he was drafted it was "holy f*** we can't believe a guy who was a consensus #1 pre season fell to us on mostly concerns we see as prospect fatigue". They gave him the largest bonus of anybody that draft and didn't shut down any of the "maybe he'll pitch out of the pen later this year like Sale" talk.

 

Hey, I bought it. I saw a guy that had dominating stuff but lost a couple ticks of velocity and some command but that was still a once every five years dominant college starter with a lower half that looked more like a NFL linebacker than a college pitcher. Surely he'd regain the velocity (if not the command right away) and prove why he should have went #1 overall.

 

But, things haven't quite worked out that way. This year was supposed to be his "leap" year where he went from "OK this guy is good for a 23 year old with hardly any experience" to "hey this guy is evolving into a TOR starter period.

 

I'm not angry or really even that disappointed in his season but I am bummed that he doesn't appear to be the surefire #1 or #2 guy with durability I thought he was going to be. Part of that is on me, but it's also what the Sox were selling. Caveat Emptor I guess.

 

edit: oddly, this may actually benefit the sox long term if they can convinced Rodon in the next 18 months to sign a guaranteed deal and buy out those remaining arb years. Yea he's a Boras client but it might be a good bet for both sides to make. Sox will bet they can keep him reasonably healthy (especially come playoff time in say 2021) and Rodon will bet on TINSSAPP and setting up his family for life regardless.

Edited October 2, 2017 by chitownsportsfan

[chitownsportsfan]

What do I take away from the 2017 season?

 

For the first time in a LONG time, I was checking in daily to see how individuals were preforming in August and September. It was said by a few of us multiple times but this was the most enjoyable season as a Sox fan in a long time. I also went to more games this season than I have in probably 5 years.

 

The Rodon news is probably the most depressing to come out of 2017. As Balta noted, he has shown flashes of absolute dominance, but can't stay on the mound long enough for sustained success. Doesn't look like 2018 will be that year either, but fingers crossed.

 

Yes. I feel like I watched about 40 games in August and September this year, like I either had them on in the background at work or I watched them on replay in MLB.tv, or I at least watched the condensed game. Have not watched probably more than that the last three seasons combined so late in the year. Was long over the club and daily check ins at that point. Box score watching at best.

[bmags]

Yes. I feel like I watched about 40 games in August and September this year, like I either had them on in the background at work or I watched them on replay in MLB.tv, or I at least watched the condensed game. Have not watched probably more than that the last three seasons combined so late in the year. Was long over the club and daily check ins at that point. Box score watching at best.

 

Same. Can't say I watched the whole games, but I would check in for the first 5-6 innings well into september. Something I definitely didn't do when we'd fade in august on supposedly contending teams.

 

Part was fresh blood, but the other part was just a generally enjoyable team.

 

It's so funny, but if you were to ask me where sox ranked in offense (runs scored), my gut feeling would have been 15/16th. They just seemed pretty competent most nights. But nope, they were 23rd.

 

It was also that I was also kinda mad that we traded clippard for nothing. Just thought our bullpen would be not close to major league competent and it would be a joke (like the tigers team). And they pulled together to be competent.

 

That's the thing, there wasn't so much talent on this team, but they always seemed to play above it. In 2015? The epitome of playing under their talent. It was refreshing.

[hi8is]

As a fan I was insulted and irritated...

Then I will be equally insulted and irritated by your enjoyment of the next winning teams we field who result from the progress made in the last 8 months.

 

?

[Wanne]

I got that the organization FINALLY saw that a rebuild was necessary and masterfully took steps in starting the process. And I couldn't be happier with the results!!! It seems everyone is re-energized and it's great to see. And for where they finished in the standings...you'd think it would have been miserable to watch...but I found it quite the opposite...especially the 2nd half of the season. Can't remember enjoying watching this much in a long long time. What a bright bright future lies ahead for this team. And I have confidence that Hahn will shore up the pen before camp...

[jenksycat]

Then I will be equally insulted and irritated by your enjoyment of the next winning teams we field who result from the progress made in the last 8 months.

 

?

 

 

I wish the "ignore" button wiped all traces of the poster off the forums so when I get bored I'm not tempted to reply to his nonsense.

[BlackSox13]

Then I will be equally insulted and irritated by your enjoyment of the next winning teams we field who result from the progress made in the last 8 months.

 

?

Seriously. The positives far outweigh the negatives. Complaining about Holland, Pelfrey etc is just looking for something to whine about. I guess some are just damn determined to stay in a negative mindset. I got no for that shiite.

[hi8is]

I wish the "ignore" button wiped all traces of the poster off the forums so when I get bored I'm not tempted to reply to his nonsense.

I'm not sure which poster you're referring to - either Greg or myself - as we both post quite a lot of nonsense... granted, in very very different ways :

[chitownsportsfan]

Seriously. The positives far outweigh the negatives. Complaining about Holland, Pelfrey etc is just looking for something to whine about. I guess some are just damn determined to stay in a negative mindset. I got no for that shiite.

 

If anything watching those guys suck so bad didn't even bother me because they are just filler and were helping the tank. Now watching the corpse of Paul Konerko (bless you Paulie but at the end you stunk, not your fault) try and lead the Sox to one last playoff run and doing thing like trading anybody with a pulse for James Shields in a desperate attempt to win 86 games -- now that s*** bothers me.

[BlackSox13]

I wish the "ignore" button wiped all traces of the poster off the forums so when I get bored I'm not tempted to reply to his nonsense.

 

Sometimes the posts are just plain bonkers.

[Balta1701]

Carlos Rodon has a career total of 55 2/3 IP in the minor leagues, including the 13+ he pitched down there this year. The fact that he has struggle with consistency is only a surprise in that it hasn't been MORE often, not how often it has happened.

But, he had 100 more collegiate innings than Chris Sale.

 

It seemed Rodon started to get his s*** together after he got passed the Spring Training portion of his season this year. I think next year he'd really take a leap forward if he's not broken. Unfortunately that's a big if at this point.

Like I said earlier, I didn't see him having any evidence of getting his S*** together - I saw the same sort of occasionally dominant run we've seen down the stretch the last 2 years. But on August 26, he went out against Detroit, gave up 5 runs and a couple HR. A few weeks of occasional dominance when the slider is on, then bad games he can't overcome when he doesn't have his best stuff.

[BlackSox13]

If anything watching those guys suck so bad didn't even bother me because they are just filler and were helping the tank. Now watching the corpse of Paul Konerko (bless you Paulie but at the end you stunk, not your fault) try and lead the Sox to one last playoff run and doing thing like trading anybody with a pulse for James Shields in a desperate attempt to win 86 games -- now that s*** bothers me.

Exactly. Nobody ( well, almost ) expected anything much from those guys other than being a warm body to fill a spot until some real talent came up from Charlotte to replace them. Holland was released September 5th so to complain about him is just ludicrous. The only reason Pelfrey was still with the Sox is because of the shortage on the pitching staff. The worst has to be complaining about a 24 year old left handed rookie in Jace Fry like he will never amount to anything.

[BlackSox13]

I'm not sure which poster you're referring to - either Greg or myself - as we both post quite a lot of nonsense... granted, in very very different ways :

Yeah, jenksy was referring to the other poster.

[SonofaRoache]

Guys remember, this season was the easy one as a fan. We knew we were gonna suck and wanted to lose on purpose for a top pick, so it felt like we were winning. This season was also exciting because it was the teardown and waiting for big trades got us through it. I'm telling you guys now, next season is gonna be not so fun. We will see progress but in terms of excitement we wont have as much anticipation. That being said, this will be a wild card team in 2019 and a Champion in 2020!

[greg775]

Then I will be equally insulted and irritated by your enjoyment of the next winning teams we field who result from the progress made in the last 8 months.

 

?

No, I already told you guys months ago that as a fan I have the right to cheer when we get good. Just cause I'm being a dick now about the losing doesn't mean I can't enjoy the winning. Look, you don't have to cheer during the sad days you just have to be there. Check it out, I said this before. I will be there cheering when we win.

 

Seriously. The positives far outweigh the negatives. Complaining about Holland, Pelfrey etc is just looking for something to whine about. I guess some are just damn determined to stay in a negative mindset. I got no for that shiite.

Negative mindset? Read my post. I think I was very complimentary toward what I saw as "bright spots." You guys don't even read my posts. Geez. I'd call my post "very fair." I had my highlights pointed out.

[hi8is]

No, I already told you guys months ago that as a fan I have the right to cheer when we get good. Just cause I'm being a dick now about the losing doesn't mean I can't enjoy the winning.

I didn't say you can't cheer, sweetheart - I just said that personally, I'll be insulted and irritated by your enjoyment. ( it's all light hearted tounge in cheek crap, man. )

 

Buck up gregeroo.

Edited October 2, 2017 by hi8is