Gun Violence in America

[Dick Allen]

It turns out it was CNN's fault.

 

A forensic psychiatrist told Fox News on Tuesday morning that CNN was to blame for mass shootings like what transpired in Las Vegas. “I think that CNN’s going to have to answer how they demonize gun enthusiasts and how CNN actually contributes to mass shooting,” Michael Welner said. “And I think that they do.

[Jenksismyhero]

Keith Olbermann says the NRA should be branded a terrorist organization.

 

click, click, click, click!

 

edit: as in he wants (and will get) those web clicks...

Edited October 3, 2017 by JenksIsMyHero

[Jenksismyhero]

It turns out it was CNN's fault.

 

A forensic psychiatrist told Fox News on Tuesday morning that CNN was to blame for mass shootings like what transpired in Las Vegas. “I think that CNN’s going to have to answer how they demonize gun enthusiasts and how CNN actually contributes to mass shooting,” Michael Welner said. “And I think that they do.

 

I do wonder what role the mass media has on these cases. Let's assume the media treats these mass shootings as they treat suicides - you never hear about them except in rare circumstances; does that lessen the likelihood that the events would take place? If the sick f***s don't become instant celebrities, do they still have the desire to do it?

Edited October 3, 2017 by JenksIsMyHero

[Soxbadger]

I do wonder what role the mass media has on these cases. Let's assume the media treats these mass shootings as they treat suicides - you never hear about them except in rare circumstances; does that lessen the likelihood that the events would take place? If the sick f***s don't become instant celebrities, do they still have the desire to do it?

 

Its not even mass shootings, its people like Charles Manson etc. A lot of crimes are done to get attention, but there is simply no way to get every media outlet to agree not to report on it. And with social media there is just no way to effectively prevent it.

 

Its only a matter of time before an attack is live streamed.

[Balta1701]

Good post. To those who say nothing can be done, well, we need to have some of the politicians respond to some of the things being said by people like Kimmel in his monologue yesterday. Not just saying him but a lot of reasonable people have solutions to this assault rifle issue. Cmon, folks, this madman in Vegas should never have had an arsenal of weapons in his possession. Like you said the second amendment argument is crap here. 500 people injured, 50 dead by one man?? My gawd that is unacceptable. And people are right. Somebody else is going to try to break the new record of deaths.

 

One other thing: People need to be aware. Wouldn't it have been perfect if somebody in Vegas or somewhere had caught this guy before the incident? I kind of agree with the Vegas sheriff though. Not much could have been done if anything to prevent this.

He broke no laws prior to the incident. It is totally legal to buy huge numbers of after-market modified assault rifles rigged for fully automatic firing. It is fully legal to stockpile thousands of rounds of ammunition. The reason nothing could have been done is that one party wants guys like this to be able to buy arsenals and they have made the laws such that it will continue to happen.

[Balta1701]

I do wonder what role the mass media has on these cases. Let's assume the media treats these mass shootings as they treat suicides - you never hear about them except in rare circumstances; does that lessen the likelihood that the events would take place? If the sick f***s don't become instant celebrities, do they still have the desire to do it?

Well, one thing worth noting is that there have been several hundred cases where >4 people have been shot in a single incident this year alone and we don't hear about most of them other than on page 3 of that area's local newspaper the day after because it is so normal for it to happen. Obviously this case is a different one given the scale, but seriously, a bunch of people getting shot in a single incident and it receiving little coverage is so normal it happens on every day that ends in Y.

[StrangeSox]

I do wonder what role the mass media has on these cases. Let's assume the media treats these mass shootings as they treat suicides - you never hear about them except in rare circumstances; does that lessen the likelihood that the events would take place? If the sick f***s don't become instant celebrities, do they still have the desire to do it?

 

We would hear if there was a mass suicide, though. We all still know about Jonestown and Heaven's Gate.

[Dick Allen]

Guns per capita in the US has doubled the last 50 years. Except for 2 countries, the US has about triple the guns per capita as any other country. More guns, more murders. Pretty simple.

[Jenksismyhero]

Well, one thing worth noting is that there have been several hundred cases where >4 people have been shot in a single incident this year alone and we don't hear about most of them other than on page 3 of that area's local newspaper the day after because it is so normal for it to happen. Obviously this case is a different one given the scale, but seriously, a bunch of people getting shot in a single incident and it receiving little coverage is so normal it happens on every day that ends in Y.

 

True. Much like the daily shootings/murders in Chicago, it's just white noise at this point.

 

I wonder if there's an analysis somewhere on those mass shootings. Take out disgruntled people with a relationship to the victims and gang shootings and I wonder how many are truly "random" killings.

[Jenksismyhero]

Guns per capita in the US has doubled the last 50 years. Except for 2 countries, the US has about triple the guns per capita as any other country. More guns, more murders. Pretty simple.

 

Except murder rates are way, way down. # of guns sold =/= more killings.

[Balta1701]

Except murder rates are way, way down. # of guns sold =/= more killings.

Except medical technology and response rates have improved, so more people shot =/= more killings.

[illinilaw08]

Except murder rates are way, way down. # of guns sold =/= more killings.

 

It certainly equals more deaths by gun. Suicides are left out of this equation (per the CDC over 21k suicides by gun in the US last year), but attempted suicide by gun is almost always effective while pills and other attempts are much more likely to be unsuccessful.

[RockRaines]

God, If I see one more copy and paste FB status about how the gun industry would collapse the economy if guns were regulated I'm going to puke. The entire industry employs around 30% of a company like Walgreens

[Wanne]

He broke no laws prior to the incident. It is totally legal to buy huge numbers of after-market modified assault rifles rigged for fully automatic firing. It is fully legal to stockpile thousands of rounds of ammunition. The reason nothing could have been done is that one party wants guys like this to be able to buy arsenals and they have made the laws such that it will continue to happen.

 

 

Wait....what? Not sure what you're saying here...that it's ok to buy huge numbers of semi automatic ARs or AKs (that can be converted)? Actually it's illegal to convert a semi automatic rifle to fire fully auto...the part is actually illegal from what I understand. I'm not sure what you mean by saying it's legal to buy "after market modified assault rifles fully rigged for fully automatic firing". That is completely false. You can purchase fully automatic weapons legally...but you have to have a Class III license that goes thru the ATF and they must be registered and have paperwork with them at all times. It's costly...and a ton of red tape...and most of the time you have to have a FFL license.

 

And actually They changed the law probably 5 or 6 years ago that stated that if anyone tried to buy 2 or more weapons at one time it's automatically reported to the ATF. There are laws in place that flag large and oft purchasers.

[StrangeSox]

Wait....what? Not sure what you're saying here...that it's ok to buy huge numbers of semi automatic ARs or AKs (that can be converted)? Actually it's illegal to convert a semi automatic rifle to fire fully auto...the part is actually illegal from what I understand. I'm not sure what you mean by saying it's legal to buy "after market modified assault rifles fully rigged for fully automatic firing". That is completely false. You can purchase fully automatic weapons legally...but you have to have a Class III license that goes thru the ATF and they must be registered and have paperwork with them at all times. It's costly...and a ton of red tape...and most of the time you have to have a FFL license.

 

And actually They changed the law probably 5 or 6 years ago that stated that if anyone tried to buy 2 or more weapons at one time it's automatically reported to the ATF. There are laws in place that flag large and oft purchasers.

 

He had one of the bump fire shoulder stocks that allowed him to fire at a very high rate with a gun that was technically still a semi-automatic and 100% a-okay with the ATF. Up until he broke that window, he had broken no laws by amassing 20+ rifles with optics and large capacity magazines in a hotel room overlooking 20,000 people. In the handful of minutes after his first illegal act, he was able to fire over a thousand rounds on the crowd, killing 59 and wounding over 500. Right up until that point, he was a law-abiding citizen, one of the Good Guys With A Gun.

 

I'm not even particularly pro-gun control, but the pro-gun crowd should recognize that this situation was sort of the absolute worst as far as the hypotheticals from gun control proponents goes. There's nothing in place to stop what this man did before he did it, and there's nothing stopping someone else from amassing similar completely legal firepower today.

[Wanne]

He had one of the bump fire shoulder stocks that allowed him to fire at a very high rate with a gun that was technically still a semi-automatic and 100% a-okay with the ATF. Up until he broke that window, he had broken no laws by amassing 20+ rifles with optics and large capacity magazines in a hotel room overlooking 20,000 people. In the handful of minutes after his first illegal act, he was able to fire over a thousand rounds on the crowd, killing 59 and wounding over 500. Right up until that point, he was a law-abiding citizen, one of the Good Guys With A Gun.

 

I'm not even particularly pro-gun control, but the pro-gun crowd should recognize that this situation was sort of the absolute worst as far as the hypotheticals from gun control proponents goes. There's nothing in place to stop what this man did before he did it, and there's nothing stopping someone else from amassing similar completely legal firepower today.

 

yeah...those are called Slide Fires...and honestly I think they should be banned and I'm as pro gun as there is. Actually those Slide Fires are ridiculously hard to use...much less from that distance...so he sure must have done some real practice. I've shot them a handful of times and quite honestly think they're idiotic and very hard to control. But besides his Slid Fire...if he had modified semi autos to fire fully auto...he's no longer a law-abiding citizen.

 

This entire story seems extremely odd besides simply being tragic. I'm not one to ever just subscribe to Occam's Razor...but this entire event makes absolutely zero sense from so many angles to simply say "someone snapped". It really does no good going back and forth with these arguments because nothing short of complete banning and confiscation would satisfy the anti gun masses...and that's just plain not going to happen. I'm all for common sense gun laws...but not everyone is going to be happy. Has Illinois' ridiculously strict gun laws prevented gun violence?....

[StrangeSox]

yeah...those are called Slide Fires...and honestly I think they should be banned and I'm as pro gun as there is. Actually those Slide Fires are ridiculously hard to use...much less from that distance...so he sure must have done some real practice. I've shot them a handful of times and quite honestly think they're idiotic and very hard to control. But besides his Slid Fire...if he had modified semi autos to fire fully auto...he's no longer a law-abiding citizen.

 

This entire story seems extremely odd besides simply being tragic. I'm not one to ever just subscribe to Occam's Razor...but this entire event makes absolutely zero sense from so many angles to simply say "someone snapped". It really does no good going back and forth with these arguments because nothing short of complete banning and confiscation would satisfy the anti gun masses...and that's just plain not going to happen. I'm all for common sense gun laws...but not everyone is going to be happy. Has Illinois' ridiculously strict gun laws prevented gun violence?....

 

They are apparently pretty hard to control, but when you're firing into a huge crowd of 20k people and don't care who you're hitting, that's not really much of a problem. We'll see what the final details say, but the audio signatures of the gun fire show somewhat uneven but still very rapid fire. That would seem to indicate something like the technically legally bump fire stocks rather than an illegal actual full-auto modification. As long as he didn't actually modify the gun to fully automatic, he was 100% legal until he broke the window (minor property crime) and started firing.

 

The amount of planning that went seems to have gone into this does rule out trying to label this as "someone snapped." This wasn't a heat of the moment thing.

[whitesoxfan99]

yeah...those are called Slide Fires...and honestly I think they should be banned and I'm as pro gun as there is. Actually those Slide Fires are ridiculously hard to use...much less from that distance...so he sure must have done some real practice. I've shot them a handful of times and quite honestly think they're idiotic and very hard to control. But besides his Slid Fire...if he had modified semi autos to fire fully auto...he's no longer a law-abiding citizen.

 

This entire story seems extremely odd besides simply being tragic. I'm not one to ever just subscribe to Occam's Razor...but this entire event makes absolutely zero sense from so many angles to simply say "someone snapped". It really does no good going back and forth with these arguments because nothing short of complete banning and confiscation would satisfy the anti gun masses...and that's just plain not going to happen. I'm all for common sense gun laws...but not everyone is going to be happy. Has Illinois' ridiculously strict gun laws prevented gun violence?....

 

This argument is so f***ing dumb. I can't believe people still believe that myth. A state law isn't going to do a damn thing when every surrounding state doesn't restrict gun ownership and Illinois' laws aren't particularly strict on gun ownership either.

 

Also, if we are going to play that game, I believe Louisiana and Missouri are known for having lax gun laws. You may want to check out St. Louis and New Orleans' murder rates. Hint: They are substantially higher than Chicago.

Edited October 3, 2017 by whitesoxfan99

[Wanne]

This argument is so f***ing dumb. I can't believe people still believe that myth. A state law isn't going to do a damn thing when every surrounding state doesn't restrict gun ownership and Illinois' laws aren't particularly strict on gun ownership either.

 

Also, if we are going to play that game, I believe Louisiana and Missouri are known for having lax gun laws. You may want to check out St. Louis and New Orleans' murder rates. Hint: They are substantially higher than Chicago.

 

Ahhh...by that brilliant argument then we should all have Illinois type gun laws? That'll fix it!!!! I live in AZ...I don't have to check out s***. We have open carry as well as being able to conceal carry without a license. Besides the random things you'd find in a large city...we don't have a fraction of the crap that goes Chicago. And AZ still has to deal with being a border state. Bottom line is no amount of legislation is going to stop things like this no matter how much lefties whine over it.

 

 

[Wanne]

They are apparently pretty hard to control, but when you're firing into a huge crowd of 20k people and don't care who you're hitting, that's not really much of a problem. We'll see what the final details say, but the audio signatures of the gun fire show somewhat uneven but still very rapid fire. That would seem to indicate something like the technically legally bump fire stocks rather than an illegal actual full-auto modification. As long as he didn't actually modify the gun to fully automatic, he was 100% legal until he broke the window (minor property crime) and started firing.

 

The amount of planning that went seems to have gone into this does rule out trying to label this as "someone snapped." This wasn't a heat of the moment thing.

 

The fact this guys has never been a "gun guy" or showed any interest in guns...had zero military or training background (this all according to his brother)...and all of a sudden has tens of thousands of dollars of weapons and ammo....that doesn't seem ultra strange to people? Hell...I still don't buy the Aurora, CO shooting...just too many eye witness accounts and things that didn't add up. This story is starting to sound like one of those IMO. Like I said...I just don't subscribe to Occams Razor. And things like this happen...and all it does is open up the doors for lefties and people like Kimmell to take their public soap box and blame Republicans to try and stir the masses. Good luck....

Edited October 3, 2017 by Wanne

[Dick Allen]

Ahhh...by that brilliant argument then we should all have Illinois type gun laws? That'll fix it!!!! I live in AZ...I don't have to check out s***. We have open carry as well as being able to conceal carry without a license. Besides the random things you'd find in a large city...we don't have a fraction of the crap that goes Chicago. And AZ still has to deal with being a border state. Bottom line is no amount of legislation is going to stop things like this no matter how much lefties whine over it.

But what about all the bad hombres? But thanks for the confirmation Trumps wall is a waste of money. The problem in Chicago is there are over 100,000 gang members. The vast majority of shooting is gang related, unfortunately a lot of innocent people get caught in the middle.

 

 

[Chicago White Sox]

The fact this guys has never been a "gun guy" or showed any interest in guns...had zero military or training background (this all according to his brother)...and all of a sudden has tens of thousands of dollars of weapons and ammo....that doesn't seem ultra strange to people? Hell...I still don't buy the Aurora, CO shooting...just too many eye witness accounts and things that didn't add up. This story is starting to sound like one of those IMO. Like I said...I just don't subscribe to Occams Razor. And things like this happen...and all it does is open up the doors for lefties and people like Kimmell to take their public soap box and blame Republicans to try and stir the masses. Good luck....

Mind elaborating on why you don’t “buy” the Aurora, CO shooting?

[StrangeSox]

Latest info is that the gunman may have planned a similar attack in a chance the rapper and Lorde concert.

 

Had 23 weapons in his room.

 

ATF still examining weapons to determine what modifications, if any, were made.

[Wanne]

You don't "Buy it'? AND you're going to criticize "lefties"?

 

Turn off Alex Jones.

 

lol...what a canned reply. May shock you...I don't listen to any talk radio...nor do I watch Fox news. I'll criticize lefties since most of the first things out of their mouths was pinning this on Republicans.

[Wanne]

Mind elaborating on why you don’t “buy” the Aurora, CO shooting?

 

Ok...since you asked...and I'm just going off my recollection of things I saw/read from back then (and no not Alex Jones before anyone pipes in with that). There were just too many conflicting reports out there and eye witnesses that claimed to have seen two people in the doorway that they entered...actual videos of people claiming it shortly after the fact. Heard them plain as day stating it. Also...they found the guy sitting in the passenger seat of a car parked out back completely out of it...dazed and confused and didn't even know where the heck he was....ummm...k. Not to mention his entire apartment was rigged in pretty much a way that military or explosive personnel would be savvy enough to do. In my opinion...it just all seemed very staged. But then that's just my opinion...