Gun Violence in America

[illinilaw08]

Yeah....re-read my post, you didn't get what i'm saying.

 

That stat is dishonest only because it carries a different definition of "school shooting" than "person brings gun to school during school hours and starts shooting."

 

With that being said, I tend to agree with you that people should be very careful about throwing that "18 school shootings" number around without context (seems like they define it as "weapon discharges on school grounds").

[RockRaines]

That stat is dishonest only because it carries a different definition of "school shooting" than "person brings gun to school during school hours and starts shooting."

 

With that being said, I tend to agree with you that people should be very careful about throwing that "18 school shootings" number around without context (seems like they define it as "weapon discharges on school grounds").

Anytime a gun is brought to school for the purpose of aggression it should be counted as something.

[StrangeSox]

Donald Trump Jr. is busy this morning liking tweets from the propaganda/conspiracy website The Gateway Pundit 'just asking questions' about how maybe one of the outspoken shooting survivors is "running cover" for the FBI because his dad's a former agent.

[BigSqwert]

Speaking of teachers with guns, this thread is a must read.

[Iwritecode]

Speaking of teachers with guns, this thread is a must read.

 

The other problem with this "solution" is that it only looks at school shootings. How many mass shootings have we had that have taken place at somewhere other than a school? Movie theaters, concerts, colleges (not sure if they are counted in school shootings), shopping malls, businesses ect...

 

Are we just supposed to have armed security and metal detectors at every single place where a lot of people gather at the same time just in case someone decides to run in and start shooting people?

[BigSqwert]

Are we just supposed to have armed security and metal detectors at every single place where a lot of people gather at the same time just in case someone decides to run in and start shooting people?

 

Yes! We should live in a quasi-militaristic society where there are armed people everywhere. Sounds like utopia.

 

Edited February 20, 2018 by BigSqwert

[bmags]

The other problem with this "solution" is that it only looks at school shootings. How many mass shootings have we had that have taken place at somewhere other than a school? Movie theaters, concerts, colleges (not sure if they are counted in school shootings), shopping malls, businesses ect...

 

Are we just supposed to have armed security and metal detectors at every single place where a lot of people gather at the same time just in case someone decides to run in and start shooting people?

 

We are what, 3.5 months removed from 500 people being shot in las vegas? "Maybe we'll consider regulating bump stocks, not banning, ehhh actually no, we'll just keep them as is."

[Kyyle23]

We are what, 3.5 months removed from 500 people being shot in las vegas? "Maybe we'll consider regulating bump stocks, not banning, ehhh actually no, we'll just keep them as is."

 

I believe it fell back on "we dont have definitive proof that he used bump stocks, so lets ignore it"

[Brian]

The NRA sent a letter to Tim Burns, who is running for office in Wisconsin, bullying him into giving his thoughts on the second amendment, saying he will be treated with outright hostility if against them.

 

https://twitter.com/Alyssa_Milano/status/965307603453530113

Edited February 20, 2018 by Brian

[RockRaines]

Yes! We should live in a quasi-militaristic society where there are armed people everywhere. Sounds like utopia.

Its a well established talking point. More guns means more safety because bad guys always find weapons easily.

[illinilaw08]

Its a well established talking point. More guns means more safety because bad guys always find weapons easily.

 

Ugh. I hate that talking point, and I think the most offensive part of it is the idea that we can sort humanity into "good guys" and "bad guys." Everyone is technically a "good guy" with a gun until they do something that makes them a bad guy...

 

[Dick Allen]

Ugh. I hate that talking point, and I think the most offensive part of it is the idea that we can sort humanity into "good guys" and "bad guys." Everyone is technically a "good guy" with a gun until they do something that makes them a bad guy...

Yes, I just wonder how many "good guys" always carrying a gun, may, for a moment when they are angry or drunk or irritated, become "bad guys". I'm sure the number is greater than zero.

 

The US has 4.4% of the world population and 42% of it's guns. It seems the theory of more guns being the solution has already been debunked.

Edited February 20, 2018 by Dick Allen

[StrangeSox]

Sahil Kapur @sahilkapur

now

Replying to @sahilkapur

New Q poll on gun control is striking ?

 

—97-2% for mandatory background checks

—67-29% for banning assault weapons

—83-14% for mandatory waiting periods

 

—67-3% say it's too easy to buy a gun

—59-33% say US is less safe with more guns

—75-17% say Congress should do more

[Iwritecode]

Ugh. I hate that talking point, and I think the most offensive part of it is the idea that we can sort humanity into "good guys" and "bad guys." Everyone is technically a "good guy" with a gun until they do something that makes them a bad guy...

 

This. 100X this.

 

The kid in the Florida shooting was technically a legal gun owner. Dylan Roof purchased his guns "legally" only because they screwed up his background check. The guy that shot up the concert in Las Vegas was also a legal gun owner.

 

This whole "criminals don't follow the laws anyway" argument is a red herring.

 

 

[StrangeSox]

An aide to a State Rep. in Florida is emailing journalists accusing the students of being "crisis actors" from out of state.

 

https://twitter.com/learyreports/status/966074529201246209

[RockRaines]

An aide to a State Rep. in Florida is emailing journalists accusing the students of being "crisis actors" from out of state.

 

https://twitter.com/learyreports/status/966074529201246209

Don’t you love alt right talking points? Now the kids are actors and it’s a conspiracy.

[caulfield12]

Don’t you love alt right talking points? Now the kids are actors and it’s a conspiracy.

 

Those same two students (girl who gave emphatic speech, boy who seems like an angry debate competitor) have been everywhere from the first couple of days.

 

But surely those accusations will fly Wednesday night (town hall forum on CNN) as well as the march on the WH Saturday. If they let that mother speak so vehemently again, it will be interesting to see if Trump takes the bait and fires back at her or the FBI.

[Dam8610]

This whole "criminals don't follow the laws anyway" argument is a red herring.

 

Yes, because, by that logic, why have any laws? Murderers, Rapists, assaulters, batterers, drug dealers, thieves, fraudsters, embezzlers, conspirators, etc. don't follow the law by definition, because we've made those things crimes. If we're not going to have a law about a thing just because people will do it anyway, why have laws at all?

[greg775]

I don't even see how weapons like that being available to civilians is even a debate anymore. Australia changed it's laws in 1996 after the Port Arthur massacre. Seems like it's long overdue here.

This is the post of the thread. Folks, it worked there. Why not do it here?? I agree.

 

I can't believe the number of people who actually suggest arming teachers as the solution. Double points for the venn diagram of "people who want to arm teachers" and "people who think teachers are lazy union thugs indoctrinating our children with liberalism" being a single circle.

I feel for teachers in one respect. Somebody comes in with a gun and starts shooting and you are a sitting duck. Your life is going to end and your life would CONTINUE if you could shoot the bastard yourself. I think if I were a teacher I'd sneak a gun into school fully loaded. s***, if you ended up killing the gunman you'd be a hero, not thrown in jail for having a gun in a safe space in the first place. Think about it. We're all at a disadvantage. Our lives can end at church, all because we have no gun to shoot back.

I'm more in favor of doing what Australia did, but I can see the other side. If we're going to do NOTHING because of ineffective politics, then at least it'd be nice to be able to stop the madman while he is in the act of killing kids. As it is now, it's armed gunman versus .... air.

Edited February 21, 2018 by greg775

[caulfield12]

This is the post of the thread. Folks, it worked there. Why not do it here?? I agree.

 

 

I feel for teachers in one respect. Somebody comes in with a gun and starts shooting and you are a sitting duck. Your life is going to end and your life would CONTINUE if you could shoot the bastard yourself. I think if I were a teacher I'd sneak a gun into school fully loaded. s***, if you ended up killing the gunman you'd be a hero, not thrown in jail for having a gun in a safe space in the first place. Think about it. We're all at a disadvantage. Our lives can end at church, all because we have no gun to shoot back.

I'm more in favor of doing what Australia did, but I can see the other side. If we're going to do NOTHING because of ineffective politics, then at least it'd be nice to be able to stop the madman while he is in the act of killing kids. As it is now, it's armed gunman versus .... air.

 

How often are you going to win with a small handgun against an AR-15? Especially when the gunman has the element of surprise on his side...

 

What if you accidentally shot a student or co-worker?

[greg775]

How often are you going to win with a small handgun against an AR-15? Especially when the gunman has the element of surprise on his side...

 

What if you accidentally shot a student or co-worker?

Of course a teacher with a gun will be smart enough to be well trained in how to use it. Caulfield ... what do you suggest? If our politics prevents keeping these guns off the streets the least we can do is arm the teachers? It sucks that the madmen come in ablazing and there's no way to stop him.

[RockRaines]

Of course a teacher with a gun will be smart enough to be well trained in how to use it. Caulfield ... what do you suggest? If our politics prevents keeping these guns off the streets the least we can do is arm the teachers? It sucks that the madmen come in ablazing and there's no way to stop him.

So arm every teacher? Where do they keep it? Who pays for it? Who pays for the training and certification? Do we arm support staff as well? Who pays for that?

[caulfield12]

So arm every teacher? Where do they keep it? Who pays for it? Who pays for the training and certification? Do we arm support staff as well? Who pays for that?

 

Female and male teachers?

Required? Voluntary? Age limits?

 

Special ed teachers? Just coaches and administrators? What happens if he/she uses the gun to enforce classroom discipline or loses it when a student refuses to turn over a cell phone? Substitute teachers are more likely to shoot their classes out of frustration.

 

What about the jobs of security guards/police officers?

 

Increased cost for liability insurance when someone is accidentally shot or takes gun away from teacher to shoot others or commits suicide with a school-issued weapon?

 

Why not every worker at a shopping mall, concert venue or university? Libraries? Amusement parks? Stadiums/arenas?

Edited February 21, 2018 by caulfield12

[RockRaines]

Female and male teachers?

Required? Voluntary? Age limits?

 

Special ed teachers? Just coaches and administrators? What happens if he/she uses the gun to enforce classroom discipline or loses it when a student refuses to turn over a cell phone? Substitute teachers are more likely to shoot their classes out of frustration.

 

What about the jobs of security guards/police officers?

 

Increased cost for liability insurance when someone is accidentally shot or takes gun away from teacher to shoot others or commits suicide with a school-issued weapon?

 

Why not every worker at a shopping mall, concert venue or university? Libraries? Amusement parks? Stadiums/arenas?

Arming teachers would cost each school at least a million bucks minimum. I'm sure that money will just fall from trees.

[Dick Allen]

Arming teachers would cost each school at least a million bucks minimum. I'm sure that money will just fall from trees.

I don't think I would want my kid at a school with all those guns around anyway. There is a pretty good chance there will be a slip up and they will wind up in the wrong hands.