Gun Violence in America

[RockRaines]

Sport? Hunting?

 

Your general point that attitudes change with regard to American traditions is well taken, but comparing guns and tobacco doesn't really work. Tobacco fell out of favor because it was (1) harming/killing a large number of people (far more than guns) and (2) the tobacco companies lied for decades about the harmful effects. I'm not aware of any gun manufacturer claiming that their guns are perfectly safe tools that don't harm people or don't have the potential to harm people.

Gun companies literally claim that guns dont kill people.

 

Tobacco contributed to deaths, but the still have trouble directly correlating it to the ailness that it causes. Guns literally kill directly with zero other function. They are very comparable both from the perspective that they are not necessary in daily life and in that they were considered a huge part of the american fabric and economy. The only difference is that the tobacco industry cannot and was not able to hide behind an outdated Amendment.

[bmags]

Sure, they try to spin bad results, every company does that.

 

But "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" is vastly different from "smoking is completely healthy! Light em up, including you, young Johnny! That's a good boy!"

 

"Try to spin bad results"

 

They literally lobby tooth and nail to not allow bad results to exist. We have to rely exclusively on private groups to fund gun studies, and the data for those studies is very thin, due to rules lobbied and kept for decades by the NRA.

 

 

[RockRaines]

If hunting/sport are the only real "other functions" for a gun that killing people, then why not only allow guns used for those? indy cars arent street legal...Funny cars arent street legal.... why are there guns that literally serve no purpose legal?

[ptatc]

If hunting/sport are the only real "other functions" for a gun that killing people, then why not only allow guns used for those? indy cars arent street legal...Funny cars arent street legal.... why are there guns that literally serve no purpose legal?

Because you can any firearm for hunting or sport shooting. I'm not sure which ones you would exclude.

[ptatc]

Gun companies literally claim that guns dont kill people.

 

Tobacco contributed to deaths, but the still have trouble directly correlating it to the ailness that it causes. Guns literally kill directly with zero other function. They are very comparable both from the perspective that they are not necessary in daily life and in that they were considered a huge part of the american fabric and economy. The only difference is that the tobacco industry cannot and was not able to hide behind an outdated Amendment.

They only kill if aimed at a living being. When you use them for skeet/trap shooting there is no living being.

 

Tobacco is only used by living being. Firearms have another purpose, tobacco does not.

[bmags]

Tobacco is a plant, of course it has other purposes.

[ptatc]

Tobacco is a plant, of course it has other purposes.

What is it used for that doesn't get into the body in some form?

[Iwritecode]

They only kill if aimed at a living being. When you use them for skeet/trap shooting there is no living being.

 

Tobacco is only used by living being. Firearms have another purpose, tobacco does not.

 

When you boil it down, the only purpose guns have are to destroy things. The reasoning behind wanting to destroy something may change. Hunting, sport, defense, etc... but that is still their sole purpose.

[RockRaines]

Because you can any firearm for hunting or sport shooting. I'm not sure which ones you would exclude.

What animal do you hunt with an AR-15?

[StrangeSox]

What animal do you hunt with an AR-15?

Varmint and other nuisance animals are popular targets. Wild hog hunting.

[RockRaines]

What is it used for that doesn't get into the body in some form?

Biological research, producing oxygen, protein, biofuel....

[ptatc]

When you boil it down, the only purpose guns have are to destroy things. The reasoning behind wanting to destroy something may change. Hunting, sport, defense, etc... but that is still their sole purpose.

Sure but not living things. They are probably used more to destroy targets and clays more than living things.

[ptatc]

Biological research, producing oxygen, protein, biofuel....

Well I meant for things that they specifically used for.

 

If you want to go that route, firearms have a decorative purpose for sitting above a fireplace or if cabinets.

[RockRaines]

I hope to never ever ever have to aim mine at living things.

[ptatc]

What animal do you hunt with an AR-15?

Deer, bear, moose anything for which a high powered rifle is needed.

 

Again if you read thorough I'm in favor of eliminating the automatic weapons. But rifles are needed in many instances. Many of these being culling deer or coyotes which will over run crops and neighborhoods.

[RockRaines]

Well I meant for things that they specifically used for.

 

If you want to go that route, firearms have a decorative purpose for sitting above a fireplace or if cabinets.

Yeah, you can do better than that. I dont see how decoration changes from item to item. With your example, tobacco leaves can also be used that way.

 

but I do like the similarities we are finding in edge use cases for guns and tobacco, they are becoming more and more similar by the moment.

[ptatc]

I hope to never ever ever have to aim mine at living things.

There's no problem with that. I would bet that many more targets are destroyed than living things anyway, especially with limits for hunting.

[RockRaines]

Deer, bear, moose anything for which a high powered rifle is needed.

 

Again if you read thorough I'm in favor of eliminating the automatic weapons. But rifles are needed in many instances. Many of these being culling deer or coyotes which will over run crops and neighborhoods.

I understand using a rifle to hunt, but an AR-15 or anything semi-automatic with large clips is stupid and unnecessary for those uses. We agree on that it appears. i dont disagree with rifles for hunting.

[RockRaines]

There's no problem with that. I would bet that many more targets are destroyed than living things anyway, especially with limits for hunting.

Not a lot of places to practice on game around these parts... Gotta go squeeze into one of the horrible ranges. And they are horrific:

 

http://www.midwestguns.com/

Edited October 6, 2017 by RockRaines

[ptatc]

Yeah, you can do better than that. I dont see how decoration changes from item to item. With your example, tobacco leaves can also be used that way.

 

but I do like the similarities we are finding in edge use cases for guns and tobacco, they are becoming more and more similar by the moment.

tobacco when used for it's intended use, can kill. So can firearms. However, firearms can also be used for targets which doesn't kill.

 

I'm not sure how this discussion started but I would bet that there are more deaths in the US every year attributed to tobacco use than firearms. I could be wrong but the point being that some people have leisure activities that are dangerous. Both of these can be.

[Iwritecode]

Sure but not living things. They are probably used more to destroy targets and clays more than living things.

 

There are a lot of hunters out there...

 

My point is that guns are one of the few things that we create that has the primary purpose of destroying things. I could probably name 100 other things that can be used to destroy something (drills, bats, hammers, cars, knifes, pencils) but they all have some other primary purpose. Guns simply do not.

[ptatc]

Not a lot of places to practice on game around these parts... Gotta go squeeze into one of the horrible ranges. And they are horrific.

Where that's where your environment plays a factor. Come down near Joliet on 55 and the state has free trap shooting ranges outdoor. If you want to hunt game they also do very cheap pheasant release in season for anyone with a license.

 

I don't like in indoor ones at all.

[ptatc]

There are a lot of hunters out there...

 

My point is that guns are one of the few things that we create that has the primary purpose of destroying things. I could probably name 100 other things that can be used to destroy something (drills, bats, hammers, cars, knifes, pencils) but they all have some other primary purpose. Guns simply do not.

There are but there are limits. In target shooting there are not. We will go through 300 clays in 2 hours. Whereas deer will have a limit for just a few for the season or pheasant has a limit of 3 per day during a season. There is no season for trap.

[RockRaines]

Where that's where your environment plays a factor. Come down near Joliet on 55 and the state has free trap shooting ranges outdoor. If you want to hunt game they also do very cheap pheasant release in season for anyone with a license.

 

I don't like in indoor ones at all.

They have trap shooting at OPCC, but im not much of a rifle guy quite yet, I've only trained with my 9MM and my shotgun.

 

Anything has to be better than that tiny little BS range they have, its awful. I am nervous every minute that I am in there.

[ptatc]

They have trap shooting at OPCC, but im not much of a rifle guy quite yet, I've only trained with my 9MM and my shotgun.

 

Anything has to be better than that tiny little BS range they have, its awful. I am nervous every minute that I am in there.

Agreed. I rarely do anything but shotgun anymore just for that reason. Some of those indoor ranges make you feel like you are walking into a cult that the FBI is getting ready to raid.