Gun Violence in America

[StrangeSox]

Video from a student inside the school as police as escorting them out. Don't watch unless you want to see multiple murdered students lying in pools of their own blood.

https://twitter.com/TheDJLegacy/status/963916390624350209

 

Won't matter. Nothing meaningful will be done. If anything, we'll end up with looser gun laws again like after Sandy Hook. Feel bad for the parents and friends of the students who were murdered who will inevitably be harassed and threatened for years by the Alex Jones types about FALSE FLAG! insanity.

 

eta: strengthened warning because it's pretty damn disturbing.

Edited February 15, 2018 by StrangeSox

[RockRaines]

Video from a student inside the school as police as escorting them out. Don't watch unless you want to see multiple murdered students lying in pools of their own blood.

 

https://twitter.com/TheDJLegacy/status/963916390624350209

 

Won't matter. Nothing meaningful will be done. If anything, we'll end up with looser gun laws again like after Sandy Hook. Feel bad for the parents and friends of the students who were murdered who will inevitably be harassed and threatened for years by the Alex Jones types about FALSE FLAG! insanity.

That narrative has already found its way on the social media sites. Hillary clinton hired this guy to distract from investigation, blah blah blah.

[StrangeSox]

That narrative has already found its way on the social media sites. Hillary clinton hired this guy to distract from investigation, blah blah blah.

 

Yesterday it was all "SOURCES: Shooter was an antifa DREAMER!!!! DEPORT THEM ALL!"

 

 

(shooter was actually yet another radicalized right wing terrorist wearing a MAGA hat in his profile pic and who had praised Elliot Rogers, but we as a country pretend that right wing extremism isn't the biggest domestic terrorist threat for some odd reason)

Edited February 15, 2018 by StrangeSox

[Dick Allen]

Trump and Gov. Scott are working closely on this shooting.

 

Can someone explain what that bulls*** means? Are they praying together on a 3 way call with Mike Pence?

[bigruss]

That video...I'm at a loss for words...

[StrangeSox]

Trump tweets this morning to blame the victims and the community for not reporting the shooter. Turns out he had been reported to Trump's FBI back in September.

 

Last fall, a Mississippi bail bondsman and frequent YouTube vlogger noticed an alarming comment left on one of his videos. "I'm going to be a professional school shooter," said a user named Nikolas Cruz.

 

The YouTuber, 36-year-old Ben Bennight, alerted the FBI, emailing a screenshot of the comment to the bureau's tips account as well as calling the Mississippi FBI field office. He also flagged the comment to YouTube, which removed it from the video.

 

Agents with the bureau's Mississippi field office got back to him "immediately," Bennight said, and conducted an in-person interview the following day, on Sept. 25.

 

"They came to my office the next morning and asked me if I knew anything about the person," Bennight told BuzzFeed News. "I didn't. They took a copy of the screenshot and that was the last I heard from them."

[whitesoxfan99]

Trump and Gov. Scott are working closely on this shooting.

 

Can someone explain what that bulls*** means? Are they praying together on a 3 way call with Mike Pence?

 

They are discussing how they can blame the shooter's neighbors and classmates for this.

[Brian]

That video...I'm at a loss for words...

 

No need for me to even load it up.

[Wanne]

That video...I'm at a loss for words...

 

just gives you a pit in your stomach...my heart just aches for all those kids and parents.

[caulfield12]

They are discussing how they can blame the shooter's neighbors and classmates for this.

 

Blaming the FBI seems the go to route at the moment...get back at Wray for making the admin look incompetent in the Kelly/Porter mess.

 

Of course, knowing someone could potentially be dangerous and the will to create more extensive background checks and safeguards to prevent a gun from legally end up in someone’s hands are another matter altogether. We can’t even get rid of AR-15’s or bump stocks.

 

We also saw a dubious psych profile that with the Sutherland Falls, Texas, church shooter as well, the dishonorable discharge and domestic violence issues with the ex-wife.

Edited February 15, 2018 by caulfield12

[Wanne]

Trump tweets this morning to blame the victims and the community for not reporting the shooter. Turns out he had been reported to Trump's FBI back in September.

 

yeah...what's sad is kids from the school were interviewed and they said they all predicted he'd do it...that he'd shoot up the school. It was almost a running joke with them. And honestly...school administrators knew too. What sucks in cases like this...the school never does any proactive things with kids like this for fear of being sued. You can't punish...label a kid as a potential risk...etc. My gal who's a teacher says they can't do squat to these kids. I'll even hear her say sometimes "wouldn't surprise me to see X kid she has" do something like this down the road.

 

I keep reading the kid bought the gun legally...a 19 year old kid can go buy an AR? wtf? I'm as pro gun as they come....but that's absolutely ridiculous.

[Jenksismyhero]

So what exactly was the FBI to do here? Keep a 24/7 watch on this kid? Over a Youtube comment?

[StrangeSox]

The kid was expelled and was no longer a student at the school. Last year, when he was still a student, he wasn't allowed to carry a backpack. I'm not sure what more school administration should or even could do.

 

I haven't dealt with schools, but part of my job requires assessing motivated active shooter scenarios sometimes. If someone is willing to kill or be killed/captured, there is not a whole lot you can do to stop them if they have readily available access to firearms. It's a cultural problem that's much larger than just some gun laws will solve or for specific actions in specific cases ex post facto. So many of these cases are single individuals who are self-radicalizing rather than a group of people plotting, and that is much harder to find and prevent ahead of time.

[caulfield12]

So what exactly was the FBI to do here? Keep a 24/7 watch on this kid? Over a Youtube comment?

 

Accuse him of working as an agent for ISIS?

[StrangeSox]

So what exactly was the FBI to do here? Keep a 24/7 watch on this kid? Over a Youtube comment?

 

Law enforcement official tells Eva Perez that there were at least two FBI reports on the guy. The FBI didn't share the information with local law enforcement. Not clear if they ever fully ID'd the shooter as the same person who made the youtube comment.

 

https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/964160387099873283

 

But you're right. Finding and preventing a single shooter is really, really hard unless they're making their plans known to friends or acquaintances. It's perfectly legal and in some places normal to stockpile and obsess over guns, so that's not a reliable sign. "Edgy" pro-violent rhetoric, especially if at all anonymized, isn't all that uncommon.

[Jenksismyhero]

The kid was expelled and was no longer a student at the school. Last year, when he was still a student, he wasn't allowed to carry a backpack. I'm not sure what more school administration should or even could do.

 

I haven't dealt with schools, but part of my job requires assessing motivated active shooter scenarios sometimes. If someone is willing to kill or be killed/captured, there is not a whole lot you can do to stop them if they have readily available access to firearms. It's a cultural problem that's much larger than just some gun laws will solve or for specific actions in specific cases ex post facto. So many of these cases are single individuals who are self-radicalizing rather than a group of people plotting, and that is much harder to find and prevent ahead of time.

 

Still not sure I buy the "cultural problem" argument that people are making. What about our culture impacted this kids life? I'm not even sure what our shared "culture" is. Florida culture is different from Illinois culture. Heck, this county is probably different than most in Florida.

 

He's an adopted kid. He had no father figure. I'm sure he was an outcast/loner. This is a revenge/attention seeking person.

[StrangeSox]

Still not sure I buy the "cultural problem" argument that people are making. What about our culture impacted this kids life? I'm not even sure what our shared "culture" is. Florida culture is different from Illinois culture. Heck, this county is probably different than most in Florida.

 

He's an adopted kid. He had no father figure. I'm sure he was an outcast/loner. This is a revenge/attention seeking person.

 

There are adopted children with no father figures who are outcasts and loners in every country.

 

The rest of the world hasn't had 18 shootings at schools in the first 6-7 weeks of 2018.

 

It seems to be more relevant than post hoc "mental illness" diagnoses.

Edited February 15, 2018 by StrangeSox

[Jenksismyhero]

Law enforcement official tells Eva Perez that there were at least two FBI reports on the guy. The FBI didn't share the information with local law enforcement. Not clear if they ever fully ID'd the shooter as the same person who made the youtube comment.

 

https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/964160387099873283

 

But you're right. Finding and preventing a single shooter is really, really hard unless they're making their plans known to friends or acquaintances. It's perfectly legal and in some places normal to stockpile and obsess over guns, so that's not a reliable sign. "Edgy" pro-violent rhetoric, especially if at all anonymized, isn't all that uncommon.

 

From the NYT it sounds like the local police knew the kid because the mother would call them in hopes of curbing his behavior. But I still don't think there's anything they could have done in terms of charges or jail time.

Edited February 15, 2018 by JenksIsMyHero

[Jenksismyhero]

There are adopted children with no father figures who are outcasts and loners in every country.

 

The rest of the world hasn't had 18 shootings at schools in the first 6-7 weeks of 2018.

 

It seems to be more relevant than post hoc "mental illness" diagnoses.

 

I think it's a lazy answer to say it's a culture problem, especially when no one ever points to something in our culture that explains it.

 

 

[Soxbadger]

From the NYT it sounds like the local police new the kid because the mother would call them in hopes of curbing his behavior. But I still don't think there's anything they could have done in terms of charges or jail time.

 

Jenks,

 

What about this:

 

Do you think with all of those police reports, being expelled from school, making threats about becoming a school shooter on the internet, that his ability to purchase a gun should have been revoked at least temporarily? Or perhaps that the govt should have had the right to confiscate his weapons?

 

This is the problem. You could create rules that would make it less likely for people who are threats to get guns, but certain politicians are so hellbent on making sure that everyone/anyone can get a gun and a moments notice, that they dont even want any restrictions.

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Jenks,

 

What about this:

 

Do you think with all of those police reports, being expelled from school, making threats about becoming a school shooter on the internet, that his ability to purchase a gun should have been revoked at least temporarily? Or perhaps that the govt should have had the right to confiscate his weapons?

 

This is the problem. You could create rules that would make it less likely for people who are threats to get guns, but certain politicians are so hellbent on making sure that everyone/anyone can get a gun and a moments notice, that they dont even want any restrictions.

 

I 100% agree that this kids history of mental health treatment, legal and school troubles, etc. should have put him on a list and he should never have been able to purchase/possess any gun. But people blaming the FBI for not doing something...there's nothing they can do until he makes a legitimate threat.

[SoxFan2003]

I have similar questions. What are you supposed to do here? What is proper action?

 

I'm only half kidding, but what you're supposed to do here is take away his guns. I know that is probably illegal, but it's better than the alternative.

Edited February 15, 2018 by SoxFan2003

[StrangeSox]

Perhaps having so many guns so readily available to anyone and (nearly) everyone is part of the problem?

 

The Las Vegas shooter had no history of mental illness. Sane people can and do carry out horrific acts. You're also going to have a hell of a time crafting a law that would have specifically prevented this kid from purchasing a gun (though he could have always gone private sale) that isn't a massive violation of the 2nd per the court's history of interpretation, because it would have to be really broad.

[Dick Allen]

I think it's a lazy answer to say it's a culture problem, especially when no one ever points to something in our culture that explains it.

I think they should be able to see he has an AR-15 for some reason, and he is posting this crap, and he has been determined to be a problem. So either you are going to take his gun away, or follow him around pretty closely, or wind up offering thoughts and prayers and say now is not the time to discuss gun control.

 

Obviously, it's a needle in a haystack for a lot of these guys, but this guy should have been a bit easier. He wasn't exactly sophisticated. And if you can't see this one coming, it shows AR-15s need to be off the market.

Edited February 15, 2018 by Dick Allen

[Jenksismyhero]

At some point school districts are going to go the way of airport security. One entrance, metal detectors, no more easily accessible open spaces, etc.