Gun Violence in America

[Soxbadger]

I 100% agree that this kids history of mental health treatment, legal and school troubles, etc. should have put him on a list and he should never have been able to purchase/possess any gun. But people blaming the FBI for not doing something...there's nothing they can do until he makes a legitimate threat.

 

Under our current system, I agree 100%. But if we perhaps had different laws, maybe the FBI could have prevented him from getting the gun.

 

The cultural problem is that we cant have a meaningful discussion on why gun ownership may be better off considered a "privilege" as opposed to a "right." If owning a gun is a "privilege" then it is easier to make rules that could help the FBI and law enforcement keep guns out of the hands of certain people. Now again, this wont 100% solve all problems but really how can people with a straight face argue that the shooter had a "right" to own a gun.

 

Maybe one day people can have this discussion because our society needs to change. This amount of violence is not acceptable and clearly people arent adult enough to handle this "right."

Edited February 15, 2018 by Soxbadger

[Jenksismyhero]

I think they should be able to see he has an AR-15 for some reason, and he is posting this crap, and he has been determined to be a problem. So either you are going to take his gun away, or follow him around pretty closely, or wind up offering thoughts and prayers and say now is not the time to discuss gun control.

 

Obviously, it's a needle in a haystack for a lot of these guys, but this guy should have been a bit easier. He wasn't exactly sophisticated.

 

The ACLU would have a field day if the FBI obtained a warrant to search this kids house over a comment on the internet. Unless there was more that the FBI knew, such as interviews with students overhearing things he was saying, there's no way to legally get into his house to find his guns and/or take them away.

 

The second this kid got mental health treatment he should have been flagged and prevented from ever owning/buying guns until he was cleared by a doctor. That should be some easy gun legislation that the majority of people could support.

[Dick Allen]

At some point school districts are going to go the way of airport security. One entrance, metal detectors, no more easily accessible open spaces, etc.

A few years ago, my nephew's class had guests come in and read them something. He chose me, which I took as a huge honor. It's a school in Arlington Heights. When I got there, the doors were locked, I had to sign it, and get escorted to the classroom. No metal detector, but this guy would have just gone past that anyway, but if they had the same protocol, it could have maybe saved someone.

[RockRaines]

A few years ago, my nephew's class had guests come in and read them something. He chose me, which I took as a huge honor. It's a school in Arlington Heights. When I got there, the doors were locked, I had to sign it, and get escorted to the classroom. No metal detector, but this guy would have just gone past that anyway, but if they had the same protocol, it could have maybe saved someone.

I believe they did, including two armed police officers.

[RockRaines]

I think they should be able to see he has an AR-15 for some reason, and he is posting this crap, and he has been determined to be a problem. So either you are going to take his gun away, or follow him around pretty closely, or wind up offering thoughts and prayers and say now is not the time to discuss gun control.

 

Obviously, it's a needle in a haystack for a lot of these guys, but this guy should have been a bit easier. He wasn't exactly sophisticated. And if you can't see this one coming, it shows AR-15s need to be off the market.

They do need to be off the market, but the easiest thing for him to procure in this case was the ammo. Outlaw the ammo and its just a useless piece of metal.

 

We need to keep in mind that there is also no universal database of who buys this stuff. The NRA has effectively shut that down in every single case. There arent "flags" that go up when people buy a huge amount of firearms and ammo.

Edited February 15, 2018 by RockRaines

[Dick Allen]

The ACLU would have a field day if the FBI obtained a warrant to search this kids house over a comment on the internet. Unless there was more that the FBI knew, such as interviews with students overhearing things he was saying, there's no way to legally get into his house to find his guns and/or take them away.

 

The second this kid got mental health treatment he should have been flagged and prevented from ever owning/buying guns until he was cleared by a doctor. That should be some easy gun legislation that the majority of people could support.

So they know he has talked about killing on facebook. Know he has an AR-15. Know he has been tagged trouble by just about everyone, know he has had mental health treatment, and yet there still is nothing they can do?

Thoughts and prayers. Let's spend time, money and effort deporting pillars of the community instead. Make America Safe Again.

[Jenksismyhero]

So they know he has talked about killing on facebook. Know he has an AR-15. Know he has been tagged trouble by just about everyone, know he has had mental health treatment, and yet there still is nothing they can do?

Thoughts and prayers. Let's spend time, money and effort deporting pillars of the community instead. Make America Safe Again.

 

I haven't read that they knew all of that, but maybe they did. All I saw was that they were told about a comment on a youtube video that he would be a professional school shooter. I don't think we want the government to jail people for dumb things they say on the internet unless there's some specificity to it.

[Jenksismyhero]

Trump only mentions mental health, not guns. I'm shocked.

[RockRaines]

Trump only mentions mental health, not guns. I'm shocked.

He and his cronies will hit all of the talking points, when that fails they will say its too soon to talk about legislation. Rinse, repeat.

[illinilaw08]

The ACLU would have a field day if the FBI obtained a warrant to search this kids house over a comment on the internet. Unless there was more that the FBI knew, such as interviews with students overhearing things he was saying, there's no way to legally get into his house to find his guns and/or take them away.

 

The second this kid got mental health treatment he should have been flagged and prevented from ever owning/buying guns until he was cleared by a doctor. That should be some easy gun legislation that the majority of people could support.

 

Jenks,

 

I completely agree with the first paragraph.

 

The second paragraph is, IMO, really important. But it needs to go further. The feds SHOULD be able to remove firearms that were previously purchased from people who are flagged as mental health risks, or otherwise as security risks. Make them keep the firearms under lock and key at a gun club or something along those lines. If someone's mental health deteriorates, there's nothing that can be done at present about the guns they already possess...

[GoSox05]

I do wonder if things will start to change as millennials start to become a larger voting block.

[Chicago White Sox]

It's time for Little Marco to take his $3.3 million in contributions from the NRA and go home:

 

Rubio rejected calls for gun control in an interview with Fox News after the Parkland shooting, saying it was the wrong time to discuss such efforts “because people don’t know how this happened.”

 

“I think it’s important to know all of [the facts] before you jump to conclusions that there’s some law we could have passed that could have prevented it,” he said. “There may be, but shouldn’t we at least know the facts? I think that we can always have that debate, but ... you should know the facts of that incident before you run out and prescribe some law you claim could have prevented it.”

I'm so sick of these f***ers spewing this bulls***. The only fact that's relevant here is the shooter used an AR-15 style assault weapon. The only practical purpose for having such a weapon is to kill as many people as possible as quickly as possible. No civilian needs one. Let's get rid of these f***ing things. It shouldn't be that hard unless you're on the NRA's payroll.

[RockRaines]

I'm so sick of these f***ers spewing this bulls***. The only fact that's relevant here is the shooter used an AR-15 style assault weapon. The only practical purpose for having such a weapon is to kill as many people as possible as quickly as possible. No civilian needs one. Let's get rid of these f***ing things. It shouldn't be that hard unless you're on the NRA's payroll.

Theres literally no other use for the gun. It was designed to kill as many people as possible.

[Brian]

Theres literally no other use for the gun. It was designed to kill as many people as possible.

 

Well, it is used to make men feel like they have a bigger penis as well. Just another option besides a Corvette.

Edited February 15, 2018 by Brian

[RockRaines]

Well, it is used to make men feel like they have a bigger penis as well. Just another option besides a Corvette.

Exactly, its for low T. They should just replace those with Frank Thomas's new OTC pill. Or pass a law that all AR-15's have to be pink with "I have a tiny penis" written on it.

[illinilaw08]

Theres literally no other use for the gun. It was designed to kill as many people as possible.

 

If you have one because "it's fun to shoot," it should never leave the range. If I remember right, Australia's gun laws are something like that.

[Brian]

I always think of the old Chris Rock bit about raising the prices on bullets to something obscene when this stuff goes down.

"I'd shoot your ass...If I could afford it!"

Edited February 15, 2018 by Brian

[Dick Allen]

If you have one because "it's fun to shoot," it should never leave the range. If I remember right, Australia's gun laws are something like that.

Supposedly they use them for hunting as well. I am not a hunter, but that's like cheating isn't it?

[RockRaines]

Supposedly they use them for hunting as well. I am not a hunter, but that's like cheating isn't it?

Anyone who uses one of those for hunting isnt really a hunter. Its f***ing terrible for that.

[Dick Allen]

This may have nothing to do with how this kid got his gun, but why isn't this loophole shut?

 

A legal loophole means that anyone, including criminals, can order a so-called “ghost gun” off the web without a background check – a gun with no serial number that can’t be traced.

 

The guns are built from kits and arrive in pieces, so under existing law, when they’re shipped, they aren’t guns. When assembled by their buyers, they’re lethal – and legal.

[StrangeSox]

Good thread on damaging propaganda from the likes of InfoWars and 4chan

 

https://twitter.com/RespectableLaw/status/964187511017869316

 

 

"It’s not even about politics at this point. It’s about sewing a fundamental mistrust of reality stoked by constant paranoia."

[StrangeSox]

ADL: Florida White Supremacist Group Admits Ties to Alleged Parkland School Shooter Nikolas Cruz

 

A spokesperson for the white supremacist group Republic of Florida (ROF) told the Anti-Defamation League on Thursday, February 15, that Nikolas Cruz, the man charged with the previous day’s deadly shooting spree at a Parkland, Florida, high school, was associated with his group.

 

On Wednesday, February 14, Cruz, 19, a former student at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, allegedly entered the school with an AR-15 and opened fire, killing at least 17 people and injuring 14 more. Cruz left the scene but was later captured by police and has been charged with premeditated murder.

 

After self-described ROF members claimed on the discussion forum 4chan that Cruz had also been a member, the Anti-Defamation League called the ROF hotline and spoke with an ROF member who identified himself as Jordan Jereb.

 

Jereb, based in Tallahassee, is believed to be the leader of ROF. In 2016, he was arrested on charges of threatening a staffer in the office of Florida Governor Rick Scott because he was allegedly angry at the staffer’s son.

 

Jereb said that Cruz was associated with ROF, having been “brought up” by another membe. Jereb added that Cruz had participated in one or more ROF training exercises in the Tallahassee area, carpooling with other ROF members from south Florida.

 

ROF has members in north and south Florida. The alt right white supremacist group borrows paramilitary concepts from the anti-government extremist militia movement (not itself a white supremacist movement). ROF describes itself as a “white civil rights organization fighting for white identitarian politics” and seeks to create a “white ethnostate” in Florida. Most ROF members are young and the group itself is only a few years old.

 

Jereb added that ROF had not ordered or wanted Cruz to do anything like the school shooting.

 

If Cruz’s role is confirmed, the Parkland school shooting would be the second school shooting by a white supremacist in the past two months. In December 2017, another young white supremacist, William Atchison, engaged in a shooting spree at a high school in northwest New Mexico, killing two students before shooting himself.

[Dick Allen]

It doesn't f***ing matter. Cadet Bone Spurs talks about this shooting, and fails to mention guns. I could only imagine what the loved ones of these poor kids think of this guy now Can't piss off the NRA. You don't even need a license in FL to buy a gun. You don't have to register it. You can have as many as you like. Awesome.

Edited February 15, 2018 by Dick Allen

[StrangeSox]

It seems like this guy had a pretty decent social media footprint all posted under his own name. How did the FBI fail in identifying him?

[Dick Allen]

It seems like this guy had a pretty decent social media footprint all posted under his own name. How did the FBI fail in identifying him?

That's what I don't get. This is some unsophisticated punk kid basically telling anyone close enough exactly what is going to happen. His teachers, fellow students, and people in contact on social media all red flag. I get the whole, but his rights thing, but Barney Fife could have been all over this.