Rating the Rebuild: Completed Year 1 Edition

[bmags]

Re: the stuff in the middle. Counting the fact that the White Sox were drafting in the top 10 again and weren't giving up any draft picks to sign guys...I think there was also a "Where would they play" factor. Our lower minors are heavy right now on position players we just drafted and guys we traded for. The only real place where we actually had room to play guys is at the AAA/AAAA level, and that's where Hahn started grabbing guys in those minor league deals. The low-minors the next 2 years should be still pretty full counting guys from the last 2 drafts.

 

But the thing is we've drafted heavily college players the last 2 years.

[southsider2k5]

Just a hypothetical thought I had, but if that Quintana trade had been made first, does the Sale trade change at all? If the Sox really did want Devers over Moncada (and Boston said no is the rumor), would the fact that Chicago traded Jimenez for Quintana have changed their mind?

 

It could have, though the offers were never close to Sale/Eaton at that time, hence the Sox sitting on him until July.

[southsider2k5]

One of the more interesting parts of this off-season will probably be how they handle the 40 man and if they do anything in the rule 5. I'm guessing Tyler will be cut loose and maybe a reliever or two.

 

I looked at the Sox 40 man roster a few weeks ago. They could easily pare it into the low 30's with no impact to the teams future.

[chitownsportsfan]

It could have, though the offers were never close to Sale/Eaton at that time, hence the Sox sitting on him until July.

 

What other team(s) were rumored to be in on Q? Weren't the Brewers heavily involved?

 

The hangup was Josh Hader? https://www.brewcrewball.com/2017/9/25/1636...ukee-per-report

 

Huh, well I'm glad the Sox held out because Eloy is >>>>>>> than any return the Brew Crew could have given the Sox -- at least once Eloy went into "holy s***" mode post trade.

[Jose Abreu]

That's how I felt about it. There is the very real possibility that Moncada alone could replace the WAR we were getting from Sale. Kopech also has that kind of ceiling. That is a huge start to this deal.

It's also the end of the deal. Fair value for Sale, IMO, would've been Moncada, Kopech, one of Basabe/Diaz, and one prospect who's better than them but worse than Moncada/Kopech. The 3rd piece was just too light- someone like Travis, Chavis, or Groome would've helped.

[southsider2k5]

It's also the end of the deal. Fair value for Sale, IMO, would've been Moncada, Kopech, one of Basabe/Diaz, and one prospect who's better than them but worse than Moncada/Kopech. The 3rd piece was just too light- someone like Travis, Chavis, or Groome would've helped.

 

Sure it would have helped. But unless that offer existed somewhere else, it isn't realistic.

[chitownsportsfan]

It's also the end of the deal. Fair value for Sale, IMO, would've been Moncada, Kopech, one of Basabe/Diaz, and one prospect who's better than them but worse than Moncada/Kopech. The 3rd piece was just too light- someone like Travis, Chavis, or Groome would've helped.

 

I dunno when you are getting the #1 overall prospect and arguably the highest upside pitching prospect in the game that is already fairly advanced (ready for AA) it's hard to ask much out of the 3rd and 4th pieces imo, even for Sale.

[bmags]

What other team(s) were rumored to be in on Q? Weren't the Brewers heavily involved?

 

The hangup was Josh Hader? https://www.brewcrewball.com/2017/9/25/1636...ukee-per-report

 

Huh, well I'm glad the Sox held out because Eloy is >>>>>>> than any return the Brew Crew could have given the Sox -- at least once Eloy went into "holy s***" mode post trade.

 

That paragraph in there is nuts "even had they included Brinson or Ortiz". So it was a package without Brinson Ortiz or Hader? The Quintana trade was by far the best of the rebuild considering the other offers that were rumored.

[chitownsportsfan]

That paragraph in there is nuts "even had they included Brinson or Ortiz". So it was a package without Brinson Ortiz or Hader? The Quintana trade was by far the best of the rebuild considering the other offers that were rumored.

 

The Cubs got their man and if they win it all again FFF but it really seems like nobody else was in the same ballpark, offering up anything close to Jimenez. Honestly I'd have been happy with Eloy for Q straight up based on how Eloy performed in the 2n d half. Acuna will probably be #1 overall but Eloy will be a no doubt top #5 preseason and is probably the best pure hitting prospect in baseball.

 

Spring training will be a lot of fun this year.

Edited October 3, 2017 by chitownsportsfan

[bmags]

The Cubs got their man and if they win it all again FFF but it really seems like nobody else was in the same ballpark, offering up anything close to Jimenez. Honestly I'd have been happy with Eloy for Q straight up based on how Eloy performed in the 2n d half. Acuna will probably be #1 overall but Eloy will be a no doubt top #5 preseason and is probably the best pure hitting prospect in baseball.

 

Spring training will be a lot of fun this year.

 

The one part that I always consider, is teams may not want to let out to important young players they were on trading block when it didn't happen.

 

I could easily see the issue being Brinson was being offered and the holdup was Bader as #2, and that's why we went with Jimenez/cease filler

[Chicago White Sox]

I'd rate year one of the rebuild an 8.

 

From a talent acquisition standpoint, I'd give us a 9 or 10. In the past 12 months, we've acquired five-end pitching prospects in Kopech, Giolito, Lopez, Dunning, & Cease and four high-end positional prospects in Moncada, Jimenez, Rutherford, & Robert. In addition, they acquired another half-dozen interesting prospects in Basabe, Puckett, Gillaspie, Cordell, Clarkin, & Polo. Overall, I think Hahn did an awesome job moving his assets for value, demonstrating incredible patience that helped ensure his price was met. I'll admit I was a little disappointed with the Yankees trade (like everyone else), but overall it's hard not to be happy with the amount talent brought in. And this does not include the potential impact of the 2017 draft, which is way too early to evaluate but will hopefully be a strong one.

 

Having said that, from a development standpoint I can only give this year a 7. Don't get me wrong, there were definitely many pluses. At the major league level, several key young guys came up in Moncada, Giolito, & Lopez and showed signs of what they will hopefully become. Guys like Sanchez & Leury look like legit major leaguers, even if they ultimately end up in reserve roles. Delmonico was simply awesome in his 40 game audition and looks like he might be a legit piece going forward. And this doesn't even include Abreu & Avi who both had spectacular years and could be part of our next competitive or be used to add more talent to the system.

 

However, there were also some negatives this year and those start with Anderson & Rodon, two of our most important building blocks. While Tim definitely turned things around the last couple months, his overall 2017 season is very ugly. Not the type of result you want to see from what should be a key young cog and a kid that just signed a long-term deal. Carlos' season is disappointment primarily due to injuries. At times he flashed that legit ace potential, but he was once again inconsistent.

 

As for the farm, 2017 was definitely a mixed bag. Kopech, Hansen, & Dunning made huge strides on the pitching side, while Adams & Guerrero had nice rebound seasons. Eloy was insane after he came over, Adolfo made some serious strides despite his flaws, & Zavala put himself on the map as legit catching prospect. Unfortunately there was still quite a bit of bad. Fulmer was a disaster, Burdi got injured, and several important positional prospects regressed in Fisher, Call, & Basabe. Collins had a mixed season, showing an incredible mix of power & patience for a catcher, but real bat to ball concerns. And the LatAm program continues to struggle IMO, providing minimal impact to our full season ball teams.

 

I apologize for the lengthy post, but despite how happy we should all be with where the rebuild is at, I think it's important to highlight the player development issues the organization is still battling.

[jenksycat]

It's also the end of the deal. Fair value for Sale, IMO, would've been Moncada, Kopech, one of Basabe/Diaz, and one prospect who's better than them but worse than Moncada/Kopech. The 3rd piece was just too light- someone like Travis, Chavis, or Groome would've helped.

 

What other team had that deep of a farm system AND was in contention for a title this past off season that could have offered anything close to that?

[Jose Abreu]

I'm not saying that another team could've offered better. I'm saying the 3rd piece from Boston should've been better in order for the trade to be fair value.

[southsider2k5]

I'm not saying that another team could've offered better. I'm saying the 3rd piece from Boston should've been better in order for the trade to be fair value.

 

If no one is willing or able to pay it, how can you call it "fair"?

[chitownsportsfan]

I'd rate year one of the rebuild an 8.

 

From a talent acquisition standpoint, I'd give us a 9 or 10. In the past 12 months, we've acquired five-end pitching prospects in Kopech, Giolito, Lopez, Dunning, & Cease and four high-end positional prospects in Moncada, Jimenez, Rutherford, & Robert. In addition, they acquired another half-dozen interesting prospects in Basabe, Puckett, Gillaspie, Cordell, Clarkin, & Polo. Overall, I think Hahn did an awesome job moving his assets for value, demonstrating incredible patience that helped ensure his price was met. I'll admit I was a little disappointed with the Yankees trade (like everyone else), but overall it's hard not to be happy with the amount talent brought in. And this does not include the potential impact of the 2017 draft, which is way too early to evaluate but will hopefully be a strong one.

 

Having said that, from a development standpoint I can only give this year a 7. Don't get me wrong, there were definitely many pluses. At the major league level, several key young guys came up in Moncada, Giolito, & Lopez and showed signs of what they will hopefully become. Guys like Sanchez & Leury look like legit major leaguers, even if they ultimately end up in reserve roles. Delmonico was simply awesome in his 40 game audition and looks like he might be a legit piece going forward. And this doesn't even include Abreu & Avi who both had spectacular years and could be part of our next competitive or be used to add more talent to the system.

 

However, there were also some negatives this year and those start with Anderson & Rodon, two of our most important building blocks. While Tim definitely turned things around the last couple months, his overall 2017 season is very ugly. Not the type of result you want to see from what should be a key young cog and a kid that just signed a long-term deal. Carlos' season is disappointment primarily due to injuries. At times he flashed that legit ace potential, but he was once again inconsistent.

 

As for the farm, 2017 was definitely a mixed bag. Kopech, Hansen, & Dunning made huge strides on the pitching side, while Adams & Guerrero had nice rebound seasons. Eloy was insane after he came over, Adolfo made some serious strides despite his flaws, & Zavala put himself on the map as legit catching prospect. Unfortunately there was still quite a bit of bad. Fulmer was a disaster, Burdi got injured, and several important positional prospects regressed in Fisher, Call, & Basabe. Collins had a mixed season, showing an incredible mix of power & patience for a catcher, but real bat to ball concerns. And the LatAm program continues to struggle IMO, providing minimal impact to our full season ball teams.

 

I apologize for the lengthy post, but despite how happy we should all be with where the rebuild is at, I think it's important to highlight the player development issues the organization is still battling.

 

Great post, cheers.

 

[Kyyle23]

I'd rate year one of the rebuild an 8.

 

From a talent acquisition standpoint, I'd give us a 9 or 10. In the past 12 months, we've acquired five-end pitching prospects in Kopech, Giolito, Lopez, Dunning, & Cease and four high-end positional prospects in Moncada, Jimenez, Rutherford, & Robert. In addition, they acquired another half-dozen interesting prospects in Basabe, Puckett, Gillaspie, Cordell, Clarkin, & Polo. Overall, I think Hahn did an awesome job moving his assets for value, demonstrating incredible patience that helped ensure his price was met. I'll admit I was a little disappointed with the Yankees trade (like everyone else), but overall it's hard not to be happy with the amount talent brought in. And this does not include the potential impact of the 2017 draft, which is way too early to evaluate but will hopefully be a strong one.

 

Having said that, from a development standpoint I can only give this year a 7. Don't get me wrong, there were definitely many pluses. At the major league level, several key young guys came up in Moncada, Giolito, & Lopez and showed signs of what they will hopefully become. Guys like Sanchez & Leury look like legit major leaguers, even if they ultimately end up in reserve roles. Delmonico was simply awesome in his 40 game audition and looks like he might be a legit piece going forward. And this doesn't even include Abreu & Avi who both had spectacular years and could be part of our next competitive or be used to add more talent to the system.

 

However, there were also some negatives this year and those start with Anderson & Rodon, two of our most important building blocks. While Tim definitely turned things around the last couple months, his overall 2017 season is very ugly. Not the type of result you want to see from what should be a key young cog and a kid that just signed a long-term deal. Carlos' season is disappointment primarily due to injuries. At times he flashed that legit ace potential, but he was once again inconsistent.

 

As for the farm, 2017 was definitely a mixed bag. Kopech, Hansen, & Dunning made huge strides on the pitching side, while Adams & Guerrero had nice rebound seasons. Eloy was insane after he came over, Adolfo made some serious strides despite his flaws, & Zavala put himself on the map as legit catching prospect. Unfortunately there was still quite a bit of bad. Fulmer was a disaster, Burdi got injured, and several important positional prospects regressed in Fisher, Call, & Basabe. Collins had a mixed season, showing an incredible mix of power & patience for a catcher, but real bat to ball concerns. And the LatAm program continues to struggle IMO, providing minimal impact to our full season ball teams.

 

I apologize for the lengthy post, but despite how happy we should all be with where the rebuild is at, I think it's important to highlight the player development issues the organization is still battling.

 

Don’t ever make a lengthy, sound reasoning post on this website ever again

 

[jenksycat]

I'm not saying that another team could've offered better. I'm saying the 3rd piece from Boston should've been better in order for the trade to be fair value.

 

If there was no competition then you can't say what is fair or not. We got what was likely the best offer from any team. The combination of contract & performance of Sale was never going to be a 1:1 deal because no team is selling their entire farm system for 1 guy.

[Jose Abreu]

If no one is willing or able to pay it, how can you call it "fair"?

Fair in regards to Sale's skill level and, more importantly, contract. Before the Sale deal actually happened, my opinion was a popular one around here. I don't think it's too outrageous to have wanted a better third piece.

[Jose Abreu]

If there was no competition then you can't say what is fair or not. We got what was likely the best offer from any team. The combination of contract & performance of Sale was never going to be a 1:1 deal because no team is selling their entire farm system for 1 guy.

But including somebody like Chavis as the 3rd piece would not have been that big of a deal to Boston. They would still have Benintendi, Devers, etc.

[bmags]

Sure. And then the marketplace dictated otherwise. I mean I would have loved their entire top 10 for Sale, but that wasn't out there, so you can't call it "fair".

 

Out of curiosity considering your reaction after Eaton trade was there a move that turned you around on the rebuild?

[CanOfCorn]

I think it's a little unfair to rate any trade after the fact when it comes to a rebuild. If the Sox were in contention, then results are the thing. But when the cupboard is nearly bare, what Hahn got for what he had was excellent. Plus, with trades, you aren't going to get equal value every single time. So I think the best way to look at it is to see who was traded vs. who the Sox got in return. And in that big picture, Hahn got some pieces that will help now, some that will help in a year or two and organizational depth. The latter being a weak spot for years and years.

 

So since this is a COMPLETED Year 1 Edition, I give the White Sox a 10!

[Soxfest]

Solid 8 still more work too do

[jenksycat]

I am still not thrilled with where we are to be honest, but no one really wants to hear that, so I have pretty much quit talking about it. I watched less baseball and cared less about baseball than I have since before the 1983 team happened. I know I am pretty much alone there too. I am pretty much to praying it all turns out and we don't lose another decade.

 

Sorry, but how could it possibly have gone better? We will end up with the 2016-7 #1 prospect in baseball (Yoan), the likely #1 or #2 prospect in baseball going into 2018 (Eloy), the best 2018 pitching prospect in baseball (Kopech), and a handful of other guys not far behind or already showing signs in the majors. All achieved by trading 3 players and spending some money in the international market.

 

This franchise was effectively dead before the 2016 off season. Nothing in the farm system and likely wasting the primes of Sale/Q/Eaton since it was not possible to build around them without a 400m payroll to fix all the other holes.

 

I haven't been this excited about the future of the Sox since 2006. Is it guaranteed? Of course not, nothing is. Is it light years better than the bulls*** they tried for the previous decade? 1000000% yes.

Edited October 3, 2017 by Jenksy Cat

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

Sorry, but how could it possibly have gone better? We will end up with the 2016-7 #1 prospect in baseball (Yoan), the likely #1 or #2 prospect in baseball going into 2018 (Eloy), the best 2018 pitching prospect in baseball (Kopech), and a handful of other guys not far behind or already showing signs in the majors. All achieved by trading 3 players and spending some money in the international market.

 

This franchise was effectively dead before the 2016 off season. Nothing in the farm system and likely wasting the primes of Sale/Q/Eaton since it was not possible to build around them without a 400m payroll to fix all the other holes.

 

I haven't been this excited about the future of the Sox since 2006. Is it guaranteed? Of course not, nothing is. Is it light years better than the bulls*** they tried for the previous decade? 1000000% yes.

 

Because of that dang Yankees trade. It was light almost all around. That's why I and many others dropped their score from a 10. I gave it a 9. My favorite year in recent memory

[Bob Sacamano]

I wonder if Rutherford had come over and hit .300 with some power if people wouldn't be so disappointed with the yankee deal. I really like Tito Polo so I don't hate this trade very much.At the time of the trade yanks fans were really upset they gave up Polo so that says a lot to me. And if Rutherford turns it around next year it will be a great trade.

I gave the rebuild a 10. Right now we have so much potential that guys a year ago I really liked are after thoughts. There has yet to be a move I hate, and most the moves got more than I thought they would. Plus the signing of Robert...

 

This