bmags Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 I think it’s more that expansion is probably ready to happen. Parity is gone now? Not the league I’ve seen. AL is really good: Angels Astros Red Sox Yankees Indians Twins Mariners Easy to assume now that all work out perfectly, but look how quickly cubs went from unstoppable force for decade to fighting for division from Brewers. Their staff fell apart like that. Maybe every year will be the same 4 teams, but still likely that injuries, strange regression, and baseball happens. 2018 isn’t over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 01:32 PM) I think it’s more that expansion is probably ready to happen. Parity is gone now? Not the league I’ve seen. AL is really good: Angels Astros Red Sox Yankees Indians Twins Mariners Easy to assume now that all work out perfectly, but look how quickly cubs went from unstoppable force for decade to fighting for division from Brewers. Their staff fell apart like that. Maybe every year will be the same 4 teams, but still likely that injuries, strange regression, and baseball happens. 2018 isn’t over. How are you defining parity? Yeah, there's 4 or 5 90 win teams on there. But there's also the White Sox, Tigers, A's, Royals, Orioles, and Blue Jays - there's going to be a number of 70 win teams on there. The Twins and maybe the Mariners, Rays, might be on the 80 win level, but it seems like we have a lot more "awful" teams and a lot fewer "2nd wild card" teams now. The games with the really good teams will be really good, but the AL is also going to feature a lot of really bad baseball teams next year and FA will not change that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 My definition is one where the league worst twins nearly make playoffs the next year. Where am ALCS team finishes fourth the next year in their division. That’s parity I can get behind. Much more fun than 10 81-81 teams. Unlike 15 years ago those bad teams aren’t just mired in never ending suck but are doing it to build back up again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted December 9, 2017 Author Share Posted December 9, 2017 QUOTE (oldsox @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 11:27 AM) Maybe MLB will disallow the trade. Fact is, they allowed the Jeter Group to buy the team and watch as they immediately tried to make the team worse. Never saw that before. I always thought that one of the requirements for new ownership is to have the liquidity to run the franchise. I guess MLB looked the other way in order to get Jeter in the Owners Club. I think this definitely needs to be investigated. This deal is so much worse than the rumored Giants/Cards offers. Jeter will always be a Yankee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 The yanks are taking on more money though. Trade is not and should not be blocked. The marlins gave Stanton a no trade clause, blocking it would be unfair to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 12:04 PM) Favorites? There were two 100-win teams in the AL last year in Houston and Cleveland and they could easily do that again. This just makes for another 100-win caliber team. Right now it pushes them past Boston, but let's see what Boston does in reply. They can't sit on their hands. There could readily be 4 different 100-win caliber teams in the AL next year and injuries/guys struggling would be the difference between them. The Yankees were on par with Cleveland and Houston last year, as shown in the playoffs. The real problem is can our rebuild get us past The Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, Indians, Astros. That's gonna be 5 really loaded teams. This is why it is important we have a relatively good season next year. If we look bad again we will not attract top FA's as they'd want to see some progress on the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Older fans remember the K.C. A's being a major league "farm" team for the Yankees. (Roger Maris among a number of other guys who went on to star in New York). Now it's the Marlins. The more things change the more they stay the same. As always $$$ talks and BS walks and the Yankees always have the most money to be able to do things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 10:08 AM) I think that's a great thought too To stress - it doesn't mean that low payroll teams can't win. But for a low payroll team to win in this era, when the Yankees and Dodgers and Red Sox are combining big payrolls with big contracts and with big time talent coming through their systems...the way you have to win is to make yourself a 100 win team by development. If your team has to go through the "win 100 games then rebuild cycle", you still have the shot to win 100 games and put yourself in the world series. A successful rebuild is more important for competing today than it was yesterday. So parity may be going away, but the era of small market teams winning titles is not. What you've posted makes a great deal of sense to me. But keep in mind from a White Sox standpoint is to win the division and actually get into the playoffs. Once you do that, especially in a short series...its a crap shoot. Cleveland would appear to be the only team in the division who still figures to be good when the Sox are so that increases the post season odds for them. At this point I'd be thrilled to make the playoffs three years in a row say, even if it meant getting swept out in the first round by a "super" team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 12:05 PM) The Yankees were on par with Cleveland and Houston last year, as shown in the playoffs. The real problem is can our rebuild get us past The Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, Indians, Astros. That's gonna be 5 really loaded teams. This is why it is important we have a relatively good season next year. If we look bad again we will not attract top FA's as they'd want to see some progress on the field. Great post. 100% agree. Also part of the reason I want to keep Abreu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 (edited) Money is the key to winning. Taking on contracts, signing players to huge ones, being able to absorbed a mistake or 2. This Yankees deal is a no brainer. They don't give up much, so even if Stanton opts out, it still makes a ton of sense. If he doesn't opt out, they get $30 million from Miami. Sanchez, Judge, and Stanton is quite the middle of the order. The new international rules will help even out those signings. The draft is now pretty fair. So if you do things right, you could be good for a couple of years, but sustained winning requires spending a lot of money. Edited December 9, 2017 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Wow, I just saw the actual terms of the trade. What a horrific deal for the Marlins. They’re giving up $30M and the best prospect they get in return is Guzman. They should have waited and hoped Stanton would reconsider other teams eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenericUserName Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 12:33 PM) Wow, I just saw the actual terms of the trade. What a horrific deal for the Marlins. They’re giving up $30M and the best prospect they get in return is Guzman. They should have waited and hoped Stanton would reconsider other teams eventually. I think their biggest concern was the money and the Yankees took more than the Cardinals would have. It's a horrible baseball trade, but for what their ownership wants its not bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 There is nothing to investigate with this trade. Jeter's connections to the Yankees is coincidental. The Marlins let it be known to the rest of the league that they wanted to cut costs. Getting rid of the biggest contract in MLB history is a part of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 02:03 PM) There is nothing to investigate with this trade. Jeter's connections to the Yankees is coincidental. The Marlins let it be known to the rest of the league that they wanted to cut costs. Getting rid of the biggest contract in MLB history is a part of that. Not saying Jeter is on the take, but this trade is bad for baseball for several reasons. Freaking Yankees. It was bad enough when they ripped us off in the Frazier, Robertson, Kahnle trade. This one takes the cake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (oldsox @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 02:02 PM) Not saying Jeter is on the take, but this trade is bad for baseball for several reasons. Freaking Yankees. It was bad enough when they ripped us off in the Frazier, Robertson, Kahnle trade. This one takes the cake. The problem is the Marlins can't afford hom, and they are limited in where thy can trade him. They had no leverage. Plus it is a contract very few teams would take. It all adds up to, if you can take on a lot of money, you can improve your talent level. Hopefully in a year or 2, the White Sox can partake in a trade like this. There is still a lot of risk the Yankees are taking on. There are only a few who can do it to this level. Edited December 9, 2017 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 kinda surprised the Yankees actually did this....just for the fact they just recently got out from under the albatross contract that was ARod's that most Yankee fans bemoaned. But the fact they're not really giving up squat for prospects eases taking on a contract like that. At some point they'll have the same feeling with Stanton that they did with ARod IMO... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (Wanne @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 02:28 PM) kinda surprised the Yankees actually did this....just for the fact they just recently got out from under the albatross contract that was ARod's that most Yankee fans bemoaned. But the fact they're not really giving up squat for prospects eases taking on a contract like that. At some point they'll have the same feeling with Stanton that they did with ARod IMO... If they didn't do this, they'd be in on Machado/Harper most likely. This way they didn't really have to bid with anyone and gave up close to nothing. Also opening 2B for Gleyber. Ps: you just KNEW when Stanton signed his deal that he would end up with the Yankees or Dodgers at some point. Edited December 9, 2017 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 03:31 PM) If they didn't do this, they'd be in on Machado/Harper most likely. This way they didn't really have to bid with anyone and gave up close to nothing. Also opening 2B for Gleyber. Ps: you just KNEW when Stanton signed his deal that he would end up with the Yankees or Dodgers at some point. Really amazed that this seemingly does take them out of the Harper sweepstakes next offseason. They'll have the money to spend but they can't play all 3 of him, Stanton, and Judge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 12:38 PM) Really amazed that this seemingly does take them out of the Harper sweepstakes next offseason. They'll have the money to spend but they can't play all 3 of him, Stanton, and Judge. How do the defensive ratings score Judge? I suspect he doesn't rate out as good as Harper and could see New York being New York and getting all three. Hicks Torres Stanton Judge Harper Sanchez Bird Didi Andujar Good god. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 (edited) Harper’s going to want to play somewhere that he’s clearly THE guy...just not seeing the fit there now in NYC. Would almost be like Durant to the Warriors if the Yankees win it all next year. IMO, Yankees would be better off saving remaining gunpowder for starting pitching. Edited December 9, 2017 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 03:08 PM) Harper’s going to want to play somewhere that he’s clearly THE guy...just not seeing the fit there now in NYC. Would almost be like Durant to the Warriors if the Yankees win it all next year. IMO, Yankees would be better off saving remaining gunpowder for starting pitching. Yeah and they have expendable guys like Clint Frazier to get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 MLB is soon going to have the same issue that the NBA is now having. Three or four "super" teams...Dodgers, Yankees, Indians, Astros. A small number of very good teams...Red Sox, Cubs, Nats and all the rest mediocre at best or tanking / rebuilding with ZERO CHANCE to win anything. Not good for the fans and not good from a business standpoint when fans stop watching or going to games because there isn't any point. And I'd argue just the opposite, on a point. Miami actually has Stanton over a barrell. The guy wants to play for a winner and doesn't want to go through a rebuild. Fine. Miami should have said, 'you go to the Cards or the Giants or we'll trade everybody in the f***ing lineup and you'll be out there alone with no protection in last place. How would you like that?' I'm willing to bet he'd change his tune mighty quick. Instead Miami acted like Miami even with new ownership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 03:55 PM) How do the defensive ratings score Judge? I suspect he doesn't rate out as good as Harper and could see New York being New York and getting all three. Fangraphs graded him out as an average fielder - better than Avi Garcia in the field, for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 04:11 PM) MLB is soon going to have the same issue that the NBA is now having. Three or four "super" teams...Dodgers, Yankees, Indians, Astros. A small number of very good teams...Red Sox, Cubs, Nats and all the rest mediocre at best or tanking / rebuilding with ZERO CHANCE to win anything. Not good for the fans and not good from a business standpoint when fans stop watching or going to games because there isn't any point. And I'd argue just the opposite, on a point. Miami actually has Stanton over a barrell. The guy wants to play for a winner and doesn't want to go through a rebuild. Fine. Miami should have said, 'you go to the Cards or the Giants or we'll trade everybody in the f***ing lineup and you'll be out there alone with no protection in last place. How would you like that?' I'm willing to bet he'd change his tune mighty quick. Instead Miami acted like Miami even with new ownership. As long as the teams that are on top swap out every few years, this setup still remains workable for MLB. White Sox and Braves come in for 2020-2022, maybe someone like Detroit and San Diego pull it together after that? The thing that kills franchises is the "10 years of mediocrity" that the Mariners are in, the White Sox did, the Royals/Pirates when they couldn't figure out how to rebuild. Give people in the city a chance to cheer for a winner once or twice while they're growing up and you've done something fundamentally different from the NBA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 01:12 PM) Fangraphs graded him out as an average fielder - better than Avi Garcia in the field, for example. Huh - cool... better than I had anticipated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.