southsider2k5 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Oct 5, 2017 -> 03:08 PM) Only way the Sox could have done better is if the Yankees knew theyd be good and started a bidding war with Red Sox. The problem was at the time I believe NYY thought they werent making the playoffs this year. The Yankees would have had to start a deal with Frazier, Torres, and someone like Rutherford or Mateo to beat the Red Sox deal. I am not going to include Judge as literally no one thought he would have this kind of year. Maybe as a last guy in the deal, but not as a primary guy as that just makes for hindsight and not counterfactual material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksnort Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 Starting to look like a pretty good trade right about now. We all wondered how he would perform in a playoff game because of his tendency to faulter in high-stakes games. Just gave up back to back homers in the first against Astros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 He could easily turn this into a good performance still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 5, 2017 -> 03:32 PM) He could easily turn this into a good performance still. Yeah there were some games here he would give up a couple first innings runs and then give no more over another 6 innings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksnort Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 5, 2017 -> 04:32 PM) He could easily turn this into a good performance still. Oh no doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 Speaking of untrimmed beards... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 Kopech would have 6 K's and 0 baserunners allowed so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Oct 5, 2017 -> 02:02 PM) Kopech would have 6 K's and 0 baserunners allowed so far. And Moncada would have drove in at least 7 by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 QUOTE (hi8is @ Oct 5, 2017 -> 04:21 PM) And Moncada would have drove in at least 7 by now. And Basabe would have stolen home! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 QUOTE (Quin @ Oct 5, 2017 -> 04:31 PM) And Basabe would have stolen home! And Diaz would notch a 6-out save! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 5, 2017 -> 03:17 PM) The Yankees would have had to start a deal with Frazier, Torres, and someone like Rutherford or Mateo to beat the Red Sox deal. I am not going to include Judge as literally no one thought he would have this kind of year. Maybe as a last guy in the deal, but not as a primary guy as that just makes for hindsight and not counterfactual material. Going back to this I am going to mention that the Sale and Eaton deals were sort of connected. While it sounds like Washington actually had the second best offer for Sale, the Sox parlayed a few of those guys into the eventual Eaton deal once Hahn found out who was available from the Sale deal. If the Sox send Sale to Washington, it also means the Eaton deal never happens, so you have to figure out a way to rebuild that deal somewhere else. From the whispers, it sounds the combination of both deals was by far the largest offers we had for the combination of both players, and while maybe you get more for Sale from someone else, if you get a much smaller deal from Eaton because the Sale deal took up their top prospects, you end up with a net loss even if you get more for Sale individually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 5, 2017 -> 02:33 PM) And Diaz would notch a 6-out save! Do you have any grey for my poupon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksnort Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 5, 2017 -> 04:32 PM) He could easily turn this into a good performance still. I think he is exactly what we thought he would be. 5 ip, 7 runs all earned, 3 homeruns, only 6 strikeouts. Kind of bummed for him, but he just has never been a good late season pitcher or big game pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 3, 2017 -> 10:44 PM) You guys all love the Sale trade. A small percentage of us Sox fans think Sale and Q were a pretty potent 1-2 to head a pitching rotation and only a lousy manager in Robin prevented some pretty good success. We had some pretty good ballplayers on paper during the Sale/Q era. Hopefully the Sale trade will fuel a nice rebuild; we shall see. Ready to eat some crow greg? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 QUOTE (ron883 @ Oct 5, 2017 -> 09:52 PM) Ready to eat some crow greg? He may never eat a slice of humble pie but I guarantee years and years of more and more circular logic still to come. Promise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 QUOTE (ron883 @ Oct 6, 2017 -> 05:52 AM) Ready to eat some crow greg? Cmon, give the guy a break. Read this as a matter of fact. The author here says he's been in a 6-week funk. Maybe he is another guy who can't last a long season and sucks at the end. I wouldn't write him off though. He got lit up by a good lineup on the road. Let's see how he does next time. But as of now I can't really defend Sale's performance. He was rotten but I don't think we can write him off as some kind of bum. Now am I to eat crow about the trade? I said I like Moncada a lot already. But I still say Sale and Q provided a nice 1-2 punch and in my world we build a team around that not the rebuild. https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/red-sox-...a-choker-takes/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 5, 2017 -> 04:36 PM) Going back to this I am going to mention that the Sale and Eaton deals were sort of connected. While it sounds like Washington actually had the second best offer for Sale, the Sox parlayed a few of those guys into the eventual Eaton deal once Hahn found out who was available from the Sale deal. If the Sox send Sale to Washington, it also means the Eaton deal never happens, so you have to figure out a way to rebuild that deal somewhere else. From the whispers, it sounds the combination of both deals was by far the largest offers we had for the combination of both players, and while maybe you get more for Sale from someone else, if you get a much smaller deal from Eaton because the Sale deal took up their top prospects, you end up with a net loss even if you get more for Sale individually. I'm trying to figure out how the Eaton deal, which came right after the Sale deal, makes it wise for Sox to accept Basabe and Diaz, two guys who will likely never be close to quality MLBers, as the final two parts of a 4 player haul for Sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 QUOTE (oldsox @ Oct 6, 2017 -> 07:16 AM) I'm trying to figure out how the Eaton deal, which came right after the Sale deal, makes it wise for Sox to accept Basabe and Diaz, two guys who will likely never be close to quality MLBers, as the final two parts of a 4 player haul for Sale. I'm still trying to have one person tell me what better deal was out there. Or how they would have been willing to take Chris Sale into the regular season because this imaginary deal you seek wasn't out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 (edited) If the Sox had hung on to Sale and he had the same regular season he had this year, they would still get a ton for him. It all depends on how these guys develop. If Kopech is a stud and Moncada is a stud, there shouldn't be any complaints. The other pieces were filler, maybe one works out. During a rebuild, it's probably not worth the risk holding him another year in hopes of a slightly better package. Too much can go wrong. If the offers were light, absolutely. That's what Hahn did with Q, and got what right now seems like a better package than the rumored Pittsburgh package that a lot of people liked. Right now, Kopech is way better than advertised. If he is a TOR guy, the Sox got great value. It all comes down to how they eventually perform, and nothing is guaranteed with prospects. Some of these guys are going to bust. The good news to me is a couple on no radar might actually develop into something. The one thing I took out of this season is there does seem to be hope the White Sox develop someone with not much fanfare into a useful player. It's been a while. Edited October 6, 2017 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 6, 2017 -> 07:35 AM) If the Sox had hung on to Sale and he had the same regular season he had this year, they would still get a ton for him. It all depends on how these guys develop. If Kopech is a stud and Moncada is a stud, there shouldn't be any complaints. The other pieces were filler, maybe one works out. During a rebuild, it's probably not worth the risk holding him another year in hopes of a slightly better package. Too much can go wrong. If the offers were light, absolutely. That's what Hahn did with Q, and got what right now seems like a better package than the rumored Pittsburgh package that a lot of people liked. Right now, Kopech is way better than advertised. If he is a TOR guy, the Sox got great value. It all comes down to how they eventually perform, and nothing is guaranteed with prospects. Some of these guys are going to bust. The good news to me is a couple on no radar might actually develop into something. The one thing I took out of this season is there does seem to be hope the White Sox develop someone with not much fanfare into a useful player. It's been a while. They did exactly that this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soha Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 QUOTE (oldsox @ Oct 6, 2017 -> 07:16 AM) I'm trying to figure out how the Eaton deal, which came right after the Sale deal, makes it wise for Sox to accept Basabe and Diaz, two guys who will likely never be close to quality MLBers, as the final two parts of a 4 player haul for Sale. Basabe was a lottery ticket that some scouts loved. Unfortunately for us, he went the wrong way once he came here. You win some and you lose some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 QUOTE (Soha @ Oct 6, 2017 -> 08:15 AM) Basabe was a lottery ticket that some scouts loved. Unfortunately for us, he went the wrong way once he came here. You win some and you lose some. He certainly wasn't very good this year, but he's 20 years old, and it wasn't like he was Courtney Hawkins bad. I'd wait a bit before writing him off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 QUOTE (Soha @ Oct 6, 2017 -> 08:15 AM) Basabe was a lottery ticket that some scouts loved. Unfortunately for us, he went the wrong way once he came here. You win some and you lose some. Neither Basabe or Diaz is dead yet either. Basabe will be young for A+ ball even if he repeats it. Diaz had an injury filled year, but has the arm to move fast as reliever through the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 6, 2017 -> 08:23 AM) Neither Basabe or Diaz is dead yet either. Basabe will be young for A+ ball even if he repeats it. Diaz had an injury filled year, but has the arm to move fast as reliever through the system. Right. And man, considering the curvy road some of the prospects that came up this year and contributed, we're writing off a 21 year old? Basabe started to turn around and then got injured. His power, however, was sapped this year. He's not a fringe top 100 guy like we were dreaming last year, he is still raw. And that raw can still go a lotta ways, but can still very much go in very good directions. He has the pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soha Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 My point was defending his inclusion in the trade, not writing him off. Hopefully he bounces back next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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