The Sexual Assault problem

[iamshack]

I think everyone here, Reddy and myself included, is condemning adults preying on 14 year olds.

 

And if that is how you want to characterize Spacey,s behavior in this instance, as "preying," I am down with that.

 

I think the point I am trying to make (and I think Reddy is with me), is that this type of behavior, when allowed to go unchecked, because of wealth, iinfluence, etc, tends to occur more often than in areas of society where those factors are absent. In my view, that isn't because these people tend to be any more "deviant" than the rest of us, but perhaps simply as a result of that behavior being more exempt from normal social and legal norms.

 

[Reddy]

In my opinion, an adult having sexual relations with a 14 year old is wrong. In your world, because 14 year olds grow up faster in Hollywood and get drunk at adult parties, it's cool. I find that disgusting.

Where the f*** did I say that?? It IS disgusting. I'm just giving y'all context. Sweet lord.

[Dick Allen]

I think everyone here, Reddy and myself included, is condemning adults preying on 14 year olds.

 

And if that is how you want to characterize Spacey,s behavior in this instance, as "preying," I am down with that.

 

I think the point I am trying to make (and I think Reddy is with me), is that this type of behavior, when allowed to go unchecked, because of wealth, iinfluence, etc, tends to occur more often than in areas of society where those factors are absent. In my view, that isn't because these people tend to be any more "deviant" than the rest of us, but perhaps simply as a result of that behavior being more exempt from normal social and legal norms.

There is no doubt it happens everywhere and it is wrong. It isn't something new, but it does appear that it being wrong is now more of a popular opinion. Anita Hill didn't get nearly the sympathy these other get and deserve. People have always known and joked about the "casting couch". I'm glad these people have been inspired and strengthened to come forward with these deeds. Expose these pricks. Hollywood is getting most of it, but it goes on everywhere else. A guy who bragged about it got elected POTUS. Kevin Spacey won't be able to play fake POTUS anymore, but the real one does the same sort of things.

 

I hope this will spur change, but I can't help but wonder if this won't be something that will just fade away.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Dick Allen

[LittleHurt05]

Where the f*** did I say that?? It IS disgusting. I'm just giving y'all context. Sweet lord.

 

Your "context" comes off as straight up victim blaming.

[Reddy]

There is no doubt it happens everywhere and it is wrong. It isn't something new, but it does appear that it being wrong is now more of a popular opinion. Anita Hill didn't get nearly the sympathy these other get and deserve. People have always known and joked about the "casting couch". I'm glad these people have been inspired and strengthened to come forward with these deeds. Expose these pricks. Hollywood is getting most of it, but it goes on everywhere else. A guy who bragged about it got elected POTUS. Kevin Spacey won't be able to play fake POTUS anymore, but the real one does the same sort of things.

 

I hope this will spur change, but I can't help but wonder if this won't be something that will just fade away.

 

I think this time it's going to be big. I think it's going to keep snowballing. But the real solution comes from people like you and me - men - who stand up and say enough is enough. We talk to our male friends and call them out when they're doing or saying something wrong. We don't stand idly by when we see it happening, etc. It's up to US to actually fix this problem moving forward.

 

Like I said, I'm just worried about it going too far the other direction. I did and said things when I was 18-20 that could be constituted harassment (not assault or anything worse) and if I do end up becoming high profile, I pretty much expect it to come bite me in the ass. Is that fair? I've apologized over the years to anyone I felt I wronged, I've been doing the work necessary to re-train my brain (we're all products of a hyper-masculine upbringing and society), I speak out daily about the need for men like me to do better. In real life, I'm doing everything a man who was a "part of the problem" should be doing to help change the way things are.

But if/when I were to run for office and become high profile enough, none of that would matter, because if someone wanted their 15 minutes or their settlement check, I'd be powerless. That's what concerns me. Call it selfish. It's a scary thing to look ahead to. If you were wondering why people who SHOULD run for office don't, this is one of those reasons (not saying that's me. I'm plenty flawed as y'all know. But in general).

[Reddy]

Your "context" comes off as straight up victim blaming.

Even though I've said repeatedly that Spacey is to blame and deserves his condemnation. Ok.

 

A 14 year old being alone at said party doesn't concern you whatsoever? That's totally normal to you? His parents deserve absolutely NO scrutiny?

[Brian]

Dustin Hoffman being accused of something in 1985

[Iwritecode]

1) you don't actually know that. None of us do.

 

2) there was no consent, but also, nothing happened. What in the description Rapp gives constitutes sexual assault or rape? Spacey made a move, Rapp rebuffed it and left, and nothing further happened.

 

OBVIOUSLY I condemn Spacey for even MAKING the move in the first place, and he's a really skeezy dude and deserves this backlash, but I guess my question is what crime did he actually commit? Like... endangerment of a minor or something? Honestly asking. Don't know much about the laws here.

 

3) In the context of the point I was making, I brought up his character to strengthen the argument that he wasn't trying to use Spacey to get a leg up in the business. Read the whole damn post and stop extrapolating they way you want to.

 

In your first 2 points you seem to be trying to justify his actions somewhat. Consent or not shouldn't matter and shouldn't even be part of the conversation.

 

There is obviously some law in place. Just watch some of the old 'To Catch a Predator' episodes with Chris Hansen. Those dudes were never even in the same room as a minor. But the intent was clear and they were all taken to trial and punished. So just because "nothing happened" doesn't mean a crime wasn't committed.

 

There is some gray area in the terminology but if the victim felt uncomfortable then it was harassment at the very least.

[Reddy]

In your first 2 points you seem to be trying to justify his actions somewhat. Consent or not shouldn't matter and shouldn't even be part of the conversation.

 

There is obviously some law in place. Just watch some of the old 'To Catch a Predator' episodes with Chris Hansen. Those dudes were never even in the same room as a minor. But the intent was clear and they were all taken to trial and punished. So just because "nothing happened" doesn't mean a crime wasn't committed.

 

There is some gray area in the terminology but if the victim felt uncomfortable then it was harassment at the very least.

 

Gotchya. Appreciate this post.

[Brian]

Looks like s4 of The Ranch is in jeopardy.

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/danny-...b474048242a?9o4

[iamshack]

In your first 2 points you seem to be trying to justify his actions somewhat. Consent or not shouldn't matter and shouldn't even be part of the conversation.

 

There is obviously some law in place. Just watch some of the old 'To Catch a Predator' episodes with Chris Hansen. Those dudes were never even in the same room as a minor. But the intent was clear and they were all taken to trial and punished. So just because "nothing happened" doesn't mean a crime wasn't committed.

 

There is some gray area in the terminology but if the victim felt uncomfortable then it was harassment at the very least.

What you are referring to are laws that have been enacted that punish predators on the internet, however. These are situations where people often posed as someone else and engaged in explicit sexual conversations/photo trading, etc., and then attempted to lure the minor to engage in actual sexual acts.

 

That is quite different than a 26 year old inviting a minor colleague to a party, and then making a pass or a move on him, in 1986.

 

We all see that the actual intentions may have not been a whole lot different, but from a legal perspective, those situations are quite distinct.

[bmags]

https://twitter.com/thephatic/status/926151175669473280

[Iwritecode]

https://twitter.com/thephatic/status/926151175669473280

 

That was interesting and even a little difficult to read.

 

This really says all that needs to be said about the people that do this though:

 

When I turned 25, I looked at every 14-year-old boy I could see, to try to understand what those men had seen, because I still on some level thought I had been a tiny adult. That whole year I was 25, I tried to just see the ones who were like six-foot-two, and 200 pounds — they all looked like children. They all looked like somebody who was 10 years old four years ago. Nobody looks f***able. Nobody … I couldn’t conjure it up. I couldn’t conjure up the desire. It was nauseating to think of having sex with them, and that was, I think, certainly when I understood, on a very deep level, these men were f***ed up.

 

 

 

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Don't worry guys, he's going to get treatment!

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/02/arts/kev...nt-old-vic.html

 

What a joke.

[Chicago White Sox]

Don't worry guys, he's going to get treatment!

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/02/arts/kev...nt-old-vic.html

 

What a joke.

Only 20 years too late! Always glad when celebrities feel the need to get treatment once they’re finally caught and not upon that intial f***-up or inappropriate action.

[MEANS]

Looks like s4 of The Ranch is in jeopardy.

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/danny-...b474048242a?9o4

 

 

As it should be, this isn't anything new with Danny, it's been out there for awhile, as far back as that '70's show

[Kyyle23]

Church of Scientology has been running interference since 2004, that’s crazy

[Brian]

As it should be, this isn't anything new with Danny, it's been out there for awhile, as far back as that '70's show

 

I'm sure he, Wilmer, and Ashton did some stuff.

[southsider2k5]

Church of Scientology has been running interference since 2004, that's crazy

 

My guilty watch for the last couple seasons has been Leah Reminis show on Scientology. If even a fraction of what they talk about is true, that is a f***ed up organization.

[Balta1701]

Church of Scientology has been running interference since 2004, that’s crazy

I don't even know which person this is aimed at.

[StrangeSox]

My guilty watch for the last couple seasons has been Leah Reminis show on Scientology. If even a fraction of what they talk about is true, that is a f***ed up organization.

 

HBO has a good documentary on it.

https://www.hbo.com/documentaries/going-clear

[southsider2k5]

HBO has a good documentary on it.

https://www.hbo.com/documentaries/going-clear

 

The crazy thing is that for a Science Fiction writer, Hubbard is one of my all time favorites. As I have gotten older, I now wonder how much of that was intentional, and how much of that he actually believed. Mission Earth and Battlefield Earth are spectacular SciFi.

 

Back to the Documentary, it was very good. But I will say the stories and situations outlined in the Leah Remini series are beyond f***ed up. Just horrible, horrible stuff.

[illinilaw08]

The crazy thing is that for a Science Fiction writer, Hubbard is one of my all time favorites. As I have gotten older, I now wonder how much of that was intentional, and how much of that he actually believed. Mission Earth and Battlefield Earth are spectacular SciFi.

 

Back to the Documentary, it was very good. But I will say the stories and situations outlined in the Leah Remini series are beyond f***ed up. Just horrible, horrible stuff.

 

SSK - if you are interested in this stuff, check out the book "Going Clear" by Lawrence Wright. It was a quick read for me and was really, really interesting....

[Kyyle23]

I don't even know which person this is aimed at.

 

Masterson, in the article above my post

[bmags]

A long, but absolutely riveting read by Ronan Farrow on how Weinstein pressured people into silence.

 

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/ha...s-army-of-spies